1st Studio shoot advice

[Jimi]

I have been asked by a friend, who is a fashion designer, if I would consider doing a studio shoot to showcase her spring/summer collection for this year.

The images are intended for website use only and it is unlikely that they will ever go to print. She will be hiring a fully equiped studio locally, which she has used before. The images will be shot with a white backdrop to emphasise her clothing range. I understand that there will be 5 models on the shoot each having 2-3 outfit changes and the studio time is likely to be 3-4 hours. She will be directing and posing the models herself so all I have to worry about is shooting.

The gear which I have :- Canon 550D with 18-55 kit lens, Tamron 70-300, Jessops 360AFDC flash. I also have a selection of M42 mount manual focus lenses:- Helios 44M-4, Helios 44-2 and a Tair 11A 2.8/135 these are coupled with AF confirm adapter. I have a decent, albeit old, tripod and shutter release cable.

Now, whilst I am confident that I can produce the quality of photos she wants, I must confess I have absolutely no studio experience whatsover! This is something which concerns me at the minute. She has every confidence that I can do her clothes and models justice but equally understands if I should decide not to do it.

So unsurprisingly I have a couple of questions

- Would I be able to manage with the kit listed above? Hiring the right lenses for the job wont be a problem so any suggestions would be great.

- Is there any additional equipment I may need in order to 'pair' my kit up with the studio kit? ie. to lighting etc.

I do have a friend who has some basic studio experience both in front and behind the camera, albeit from years ago, who has agreed to come on the shoot with me for help and support.

All advice and help gratefully received. Please note though that I am not looking for advice as to whether or not I should accept to do it or whether I am capable of doing it. If I had doubts about my own ability I would have said no straight away. Also this isn't one of those 'you have a big camera will you do it free' propositions. It will be a paid photo shoot and treated as such, although obviously my rate for it will be far less than a seasoned tog I should imagine. This has already been agreed in principle by us both on the understanding that her business will benefit from the reduced rate for the shoot and I gain some valuable experience and possible exposure.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Jim

 

[Garry Edwards]

I don't know what the quality of your 70-300 lens is like, but you won't need an aperture larger than about f/8 so the work won't be putting the quality of the lens under much strain. And if it's OK then that's the only lens you'll need so you won't have to worry about the others. And don't worry about your hotshoe flash, that won't be needed either.

If the studio is fully equipped then everything you need will be included, but that leaves us with the question that you specifically don't want advice on - your ability.

You say that you have absolutely no studio experience whatsoever, but this job requires studio experience...

I don't see any reason why you can't get bland images with flat lighting without experience, but her business won't benefit from that type of image.

 

[Jimi]

Thanks for your feedback Garry. To clarify my comments about my own abilility, I was referring more towards my capabilities of taking an actual photograph and using my camera, as opposed to the studio side of things. Given the spate of recent threads from amateur members asking for advice and help about shooting weddings etc. and subseqently being shot down by others, I felt the need to point out that is not the kind of response I want for this thread.

With regard to my studio ability though, yes you are right, I have none and that I suppose should rightly be up for question. Though I would request constructive feedback and advice on this without the 'you are not worthy' type backlash.

I have since spoken to my friend who has offered to help me out with the studio side of things and found that he has far more experience than I first thought. Albeit from some 15 years or so ago and he has been out of the photography game for quite some time now due to following a Graphic Design route.

Anyway, I am feeling slightly more confident that I can pull this off to an acceptible standard. That said I still haven't agreed to do it yet as I want to be certain I am making the right decision for the sake of my friends business. Afterall there is quite a lot riding on the outcome and potentially a lot for me to gain from it in the future.

I have until the end of Feb to decide whether to accept the offer so have a lot of thinking and research yet to do. Therefore any feedback and advice I can get from our more experienced members with regard to studio work will be very gratefully received and taken onboard. All I ask is that the thread is kept on track please.

Thanks again.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I understand where you're coming from on this.
TBH I think that a lot of the negativity towards people having a go at commercial work (of all kinds) may be related to the effect that these people have in 2 areas, prices and professional standards. When people work for too little it makes professionals look expensive, and when they tell people that they're professional when they're not - or if the client thinks that they're professional even when they haven't said that they are - then the standard of perceived professional work goes down, and the real professionals find it harder and harder to find work and harder and harder to charge pro rates for the work that they do get.

None of this bothers me personally, I don't worry about competition and I'm happy to give advice to anyone, if I feel I have something helpful to say.

As I see it, you have a client who thinks that she can direct and pose the models, and a friend who thinks he knew a lot about studio photography 15 years ago. Your job is to put it all together.

I don't think you need to worry too much about the client's capabilities, either she can direct the models well or she can't, and if she can't then it will be patently obvious where the fault lies so she can hardly blame you for it. If she's taking on that role though I might be a bit concerned about the quality of the models, I hope that they're not just friends of hers doing it to help her out, and I hope that she's happy to pay for a good MUA...

Assuming that your friend actually was a good studio photographer 15 years ago and knew how to light for fashion, then I don't think that the lack of recent experience matters, as long as he remembers the principles. In fact shooting in the pre-digital era can be a real help, as he needed to have pretty high standards of skill when he shot on film and didn't have much in the way of retouching available to him. But I'm not confident about this, I've seen so many photographers who think they know about studio lighting, and so many people who think they know how to direct models, and so many people who think that they can model, and when any one of those crucial areas of knowledge is lacking the whole job always goes tits up...

Neither I nor anyone else can really give any specific advice or tips, the subject is just much too big for that. My advice is to hire the studio, have a practice session without the client and see what happens. If it works then it will be a good learning experience and if it doesn't then it will help you to decide whether to keep trying or turn the job down.

 

[Kris]

If I had doubts about my own ability I would have said no straight away.

Jim

Then why are you asking rather simplistic questions on here?

Sorry, but I agree with everything Garry has said (which isnt normal ;-) ).

 

[Jimi]

Garry thanks for your input it has certainly given me food for thought. The models are all experienced professionals whom my friend has worked with before. My friend is very experienced at directing the models and they work very well together, indeed it is almost second nature to them. She is also quite specific as to how she wants the set lighting, having chatted to her briefly earlier today, and she informs me that she will take care of that element of the shoot. My original concerns with regard to this aspect of the shoot have been halved to say the least. I will literally be there to photograph the models and my other friend still intends to help me out should I decide to take the job on. I will definitely try to view the studio for myself before the scheduled shoot, if only for peace of mind.

Kris, very constructive cheers!!

 

[JonathanRyan]

Mostly what Garry said - though I'll point out that flat dull lighting is remarkably popular these days.....

2 things I picked up.

1. Without wanting to be rude - what will you be doing? Somebody else will be rigging lights etc, doing makeup, dressing, styling, directing models.... So......why do they need you? As you describe it a trained chimp could do your bit. Which generally suggests there may be more things to do that you are currently unaware of. Maybe I'm just naturally suspicious.

Assuming they are all on the level I'd just make sure that whoever does the directing stands directly behind you so they have as close to the same view as you.

2. 5 models, 10 - 15 dresses in 3 - 4 hours is ambitious. More than anything it's the number of models. Make up could easily take an hour per model. Styling can take 10 mins per frock. That's 7.5 hours without taking a shot..... You'll want to be very focussed.

 

[Jimi]

Mostly what Garry said - though I'll point out that flat dull lighting is remarkably popular these days.....

2 things I picked up.

1. Without wanting to be rude - what will you be doing? Somebody else will be rigging lights etc, doing makeup, dressing, styling, directing models.... So......why do they need you? As you describe it a trained chimp could do your bit. Which generally suggests there may be more things to do that you are currently unaware of. Maybe I'm just naturally suspicious.

Assuming they are all on the level I'd just make sure that whoever does the directing stands directly behind you so they have as close to the same view as you.

2. 5 models, 10 - 15 dresses in 3 - 4 hours is ambitious. More than anything it's the number of models. Make up could easily take an hour per model. Styling can take 10 mins per frock. That's 7.5 hours without taking a shot..... You'll want to be very focussed.

Cheers Jonathan. You trying to make a Monkey out of me I am quite literally there to take photographs by all accounts :shrug: I will be arranging a meeting with my friend to discuss her exact requirements and equally what she requires of me. In the meantime though, I assume that the models makeup and hair will be playing second fiddle to the clothes (to a degree) and apart from light touching up between clothing changes will remain the same for each photo. I would imagine that they will be 'made up' before arriving at the studio so as to maximise the actual studio time itself which just leaves the clothing changes (if they are anything like my missus we will need the whole weekend )

My initial concerns, and hence this thread, were based on the belief that I would be there to run the shoot from start to finish. If my job is to 'just take photographs' then I am more than confident that I am capable of doing a good job. I must admit though that at first the whole studio thing sounded very daunting.

I was thinking of shooting tethered to help get the shot composed right with the designer. Would this be the normal approach to this kind of shoot?

Thanks again guys for your input.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Tethered shooting is the norm - just make sure that the models can't see the monitor, or the job will take twice as long.

Makeup is done in the studio, not in advance, so you really will need to add quite a bit of time for that. The makeup may stay the same between shots, the hair will almost certainly need to be changed, othewise the shots will all look pretty much the same.

I think that what Jonathan may be saying (he's much more polite than me) is that if other people are doing the lighting, styling etc and that your only role will be to take light readings, set the camera and press the button, then it's hard to see why your client/friend needs you at all - if she really is capable of doing the hard bits then presumably she can press a camera button as well. Maybe there's something about this shoot that she hasn't mentioned yet...

 

[EOS_JD]

Jimi - If you already know you can do it I have to ask why you asked the question in the first place? Did you expect people just to say yes go ahead? No experience? No problem - you don't need any!

Is your friend experienced regards to lighting ratios? Can she actually set up the lights using the light meter? Or will she expect you to do that based on what she thinks she sees? Having an idea of how she wants the lighting is very different from being able to measure the lighting to produce the look. You can't see it with your eyes - modelling lights will be unlikely to help much.

I take it all the lighting kit will be there wireless triggers, strobes, softboxes, possibly beauty lights, flags, reflectors etc - does she know what to do when setting all this up?

This may sound a simple job and will be if your friend really does know all about photographic lighting but I feel you may be talking on a little too much - it takes time yo understand shooting in the studio. Garry has been a great help to many of us starting out on this road. I feel you really need to have some studio experience before taking on a job like this. The fact you laid out kit inc flashes tells us you have no idea about studio lighting yourself.

You are being paid and whilst it sounds a great opportunity for someone, I'd step away with no experience but offer to help if there was someone more able.

I'm quite sure you won't like what you are hearing but I feel it's a response you should consider. Also as it's a paid shoot, do you have back up gear?

If you do take it on I really wish you well though.

 

[Jimi]

Jimi - If you already know you can do it I have to ask why you asked the question in the first place? Did you expect people just to say yes go ahead? No experience? No problem - you don't need any!

Is your friend experienced regards to lighting ratios? Can she actually set up the lights using the light meter? Or will she expect you to do that based on what she thinks she sees? Having an idea of how she wants the lighting is very different from being able to measure the lighting to produce the look. You can't see it with your eyes - modelling lights will be unlikely to help much.

I take it all the lighting kit will be there wireless triggers, strobes, softboxes, possibly beauty lights, flags, reflectors etc - does she know what to do when setting all this up?

This may sound a simple job and will be if your friend really does know all about photographic lighting but I feel you may be talking on a little too much - it takes time yo understand shooting in the studio. Garry has been a great help to many of us starting out on this road. I feel you really need to have some studio experience before taking on a job like this. The fact you laid out kit inc flashes tells us you have no idea about studio lighting yourself.

You are being paid and whilst it sounds a great opportunity for someone, I'd step away with no experience but offer to help if there was someone more able.

I'm quite sure you won't like what you are hearing but I feel it's a response you should consider. Also as it's a paid shoot, do you have back up gear?

If you do take it on I really wish you well though.

Jim, I never said 'I could do it' I do however know that I can focus a shot and press a button! That is where my experience ends, quite simply.

As I've already said my initial concerns were based upon the question my freind asked me which was 'would you consider doing a fashion shoot in a studio for my new range?' At first I was under the impression she wanted me to do conduct the whole shoot, which I have already established I have no experience of and I told her that fact as soon as the question was asked. She believes I could do the shoot and get the results which she is after, this inspired a degree of confidence for me and hence I made the OP here. I am merely looking for constructive and honest feedback as to the 'enormity' of the task I am considering.

With regard to my friends ability when it comes to the lighting side of things, I honestly don't know! At this stage, for all I know, she may just want 'better quality snapshots' to update her website (this I doubt though). I am under the impression at the moment that the studio is fully loaded with all the necessary equipment for any given shoot, but I clarify this at our next meeting. She does know that the only equipment I have is the camera she is fully aware too that I am a keen amateur with no studio experience.

Rest assured I am giving this a lot of thought. I am not the kind of person who will rush into something without knowing I can pull it off! I am off to New York for a few days Wednesday but have a meeting arranged for the end of next week to discuss her expectations of the shoot. I will be asking lots of questions to ensure that I make the right desision. To reiterate, I have not agreed to do it for her yet.

If I had expected the kind of answers you suggest in the 1st part of your post then I would have asked the question on Facebook or Flickr. It wasn't posted for a 'pat on the back' and 'go on lad you can do it' response. You are the guys who have the experience and your posts are valuable in helping me make the right decision. If after our meeting all she wants is some half decent photies then I will probably take her up on the offer, if I feel I can't do it then I will decline without further hesitation.

The payment for the shoot is again something we need to discuss. I would probably feel happier myself if she covers my expenses and couple of pints on the way home. This is not to say that I am intentionally trying to devalue the industry in any way, it's just that I don't feel that I can charge 'the going rate' due to my lack of experience.

As for your closing lines 'I'm quite sure you won't like what you are hearing but I feel it's a response you should consider.' It's not about whether or not I like what I am hearing, for me, it's more important that the responses are as direct and truthful as possible (without being malicious or condiscending) in order for me to evaluate the whole proposition and make the right choice. The posts so far have been informative and well written and have opened my eyes to a lot of questions I need to be asking at next weeks meeting.

Thank you all again.

 

[EOS_JD]

Jimi
Thanks for taking the post in the way it was intended.

Can you possibly not have a trial run pre shoot? This would open your eyes to very different world of studio photography. THe worry for me is that your friend may know what she wants but creating that is very different. She may have seen another tog set up the position of the lights but the power these are set at will dictate the overall look of the image.


May be best to clarify that too. A meter is likely to be an essential tool to get the look right.

Lots of things to consider Good luck either way.

 

[Jimi]

Jim, this is exactly what I wanted from the thread thanks. The studio is relativeley local and it may be possible to carry out a trial run before hand. If I decide to do the shoot I will almost certainly do that anyway for my own peace of mind. I am under no illusion as to the work involved with this sort of shoot.

I will bring up the issue of metering with her when we meet next. Are there any other specific points you think I should raise with her from the studio equipment side of things? I shall assume for now that directing the models etc. is not a problem.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Jim, this is exactly what I wanted from the thread thanks. The studio is relativeley local and it may be possible to carry out a trial run before hand. If I decide to do the shoot I will almost certainly do that anyway for my own peace of mind. I am under no illusion as to the work involved with this sort of shoot.

I will bring up the issue of metering with her when we meet next. Are there any other specific points you think I should raise with her from the studio equipment side of things? I shall assume for now that directing the models etc. is not a problem.

Thanks for your support.

That's what I suggested in my 2nd post.
Other specific points? There are so many variables, and the biggest unknown is probably the studio. Using it before the shoot will at least tell you what they have in terms of equipment - all studios are equal but some are much more equal than others in terms of both space and equipment, I've come across hire studios that have very little in terms of lighting heads and nothing except softboxes and umbrellas, others have professional equipment. Your friend with the studio experience may find that equipment has moved on enormously during his 15 years of absence (it's moved on enormously in the last 5 years) and if the studio is well equipped be may not even recognise some of the tools that are available.

 

[EOS_JD]

No bother

Generally the tog is the person who directs but if that's being done fne but you need to make sure the models look at you whilst they are being directed - easy to be distracted and eyes looking the wrong way can kill a shot.

So long as she tells you she can set up the lights, meter them and direct the models, the issue will likely be hers if they turn out wrong.

 

[JonathanRyan]

I think that what Jonathan may be saying (he's much more polite than me) is that if other people are doing the lighting, styling etc and that your only role will be to take light readings, set the camera and press the button, then it's hard to see why your client/friend needs you at all

Actually there may be one point we'd both forgotten. Does the designer have a decent camera? Cheaper to get somebody who has one to press the button than hire one

Tethered shooting is the norm - just make sure that the models can't see the monitor, or the job will take twice as long.

It's very much the norm but personally I don't like it.

"Everybody" uses radio triggers when cables are more reliable and cheaper to avoid cables everywhere. Fastening an expensive camera to an expensive laptop with a cable and 2 horrid connectors doesn't seem good.

My Nikons shoot to 2 cards and CF tech is very stable and reliable. To replace that with one hard drive seems courageous. Especially if when you kick the wire you can lose the shot.

Plus yeah, if client can see the screen and give live "feedback" things can slow right down....

No bother

Generally the tog is the person who directs but if that's being done fne but you need to make sure the models look at you whilst they are being directed - easy to be distracted and eyes looking the wrong way can kill a shot.

Yeah that would bother me. I need all the model's attention focussed on me to direct an it's handy that the camera is in the same place. Somebody else directing is always harder.