1st DSLR.. what to get?

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Marcus25

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Marc
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I was out on friday night with my mate who's got a D300 and he let me use his backup camera (D50). i've never used one before and he's going to be teaching me. only things we worked on was shutterspeed and focusing so i've barely scratched the surface.

Im torn between a D80 and a 450D. my budget is £500 max.

As its my first dslr and this will be my learning tool would the d80 or the 450d with there own 18-55mm kit lens be a good base to start with?

I will be doing all sorts of photography, car, nature, urbex, daytime, night time etc etc so i was thinking i'll need a decent all round lens, if i was to get the 450d i was looking at perhaps a sigma 28-300 lens to start as a good all rounder for close up shots and long distance wide angle shots.

I went into jessops yesterday and they let me have a hold of the D80 and the 450D. after using my mates D50 the D80 felt very familiar and all the buttons felt familiar. the 450D felt very light and didnt fit in my hands very well. Something i found on my mates D50 was 1st the LCD screen on the top wasnt backlit so when we were out i had to keep using a torch to see what settings i was using and also the camera struggled to take pictures as only seemed to have 5 focusing points so i had to keep moving about and took an age to be able to take the shot.

the 450D as you know doesnt have the LCD screen on the top for viewing the settings so would obviously have to use the large LCD screen, but is the D80's LCD screen on the top backlit?

So for my budget, what would you suggest between the D80 and the 450D and also a lens for it (weather it be a kit lens or buying body and another lens seperately)

Thanks, Marc
 
daftbugga said:
yes ,by turning the on/off switch the LCD screen lights up on a D 80.

as for your other questions D80 versus 450D i think you might have answered your own question you seem to prefer the D 80 to the 450D and why not it's a good camera . the D 80 BTW has 11 focus points compared to the D 50's 5.

as for a lens the 18-70 is a very good 1 to start with but said kit puts you approx £ 50 over budget.
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply, just as an example from jessops they have the following

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s75429...kuOfferingPriceASC&IsInStockOnly=False&comp=y

http://www.jessops.com/Store/s75451...kuOfferingPriceASC&IsInStockOnly=False&comp=y

both are within budget. are either of those any good or would a different lens be advised?

the camera and extras are going to be my 21st birthday present at the end of december, the missus is buying the body and a lens or the body and tripod, memory card, carrycase, spare batteries etc and from the parents they're giving me 1k to spend, but most of that, around £600-£700 is going on a new TV so would give me the rest to spend on bits for the camera, so depending on what falls within the budget of £500 from the missus, i would buy the rest with the parents birthday money.
 
daftbugga said:
h'mm jessops :thinking: not really the best place to be lookin for prices , have a look here.

http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/index.html

it doesnt show all available prices but i'ts still rather a good place for comparison .

as for the 2 bundles you linked to i see they are both with the 18-55 vr lens , only my opinion but vr is not much use on short lenses it's more a long lens thing.

as i said IF you go for a D 80 the 18-70 is a cracking lens IMO worth the £50 overspend .
Click to expand...


so we have this on with the 18-70 http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod194.html

and

this with a 18-135 which is £60 over budget http://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/prod204.html

whats the better one out of the 2 to get in your opinion?
 
Despite my Nikon setup, I'm no Nikon devotee, so when I suggest the D80 it's nothing to do with my own taste. The D80 is the better camera [now if it was D40/D60 vs 450D, I'd recommend the Canon. If it was D80 vs 40D, I'd recommend the Canon.]

Why? More control... lots more control. You have on-body single buttons for WB, Quality, ISO, AF mode, Drive mode, Metering spot/centre/matrix, flash bracketing, DoF preview, exposure compensation, AF/AE lock.... all without looking at an LCD screen menu. The LCD top-panel also means you can manipulate any of these without powering up the LCD or using cursor buttons - battery life is sapped quickly with the LCD screen on. Auto ISO and multi-configurable menus mean you can set the camera up more to your liking. The D80 was pitched originally at the 30D - the next family of cameras up in the Canon range. Nowadays, it's pitched to compete somewhere between the 450D and the 50D, I suppose.

The disadvantage of Nikon is that their lens lineup isn't as broad as Canon. There's no f/4 constant zooms, or presently many AF-S [ultrasonic motor] primes. Their pro glass is arguably better than the Canon's at the moment [14-24, 24-70, 70-200] but it's unarguably more expensive. The Nikon big guns [300/4 and up] are more expensive than the Canon lenses. Up until this week, the Nikkor 18-200VR was unmatched by Canon - that's why I originally jumped ship - but now Canon have made amends with a lens that has VR [IS] but doesn't have USM [AF-S ultrasonic focusing].

Let's face it, neither is a bad camera - don't sweat it, you'll be happy as Larry with either - and both systems have the glass that you'll want after the fact. It really comes down to the ergonomics of the camera; you can have a 5D mark 2, 1D3 or D3, but when that once-in-a-lifetime shot comes along, if you can't operate the damn thing, you'll miss it...
 
danbroad said:
Despite my Nikon setup, I'm no Nikon devotee, so when I suggest the D80 it's nothing to do with my own taste. The D80 is the better camera [now if it was D40/D60 vs 450D, I'd recommend the Canon. If it was D80 vs 40D, I'd recommend the Canon.]

Why? More control... lots more control. You have on-body single buttons for WB, Quality, ISO, AF mode, Drive mode, Metering spot/centre/matrix, flash bracketing, DoF preview, exposure compensation, AF/AE lock.... all without looking at an LCD screen menu. The LCD top-panel also means you can manipulate any of these without powering up the LCD or using cursor buttons - battery life is sapped quickly with the LCD screen on. Auto ISO and multi-configurable menus mean you can set the camera up more to your liking. The D80 was pitched originally at the 30D - the next family of cameras up in the Canon range. Nowadays, it's pitched to compete somewhere between the 450D and the 50D, I suppose.

The disadvantage of Nikon is that their lens lineup isn't as broad as Canon. There's no f/4 constant zooms, or presently many AF-S [ultrasonic motor] primes. Their pro glass is arguably better than the Canon's at the moment [14-24, 24-70, 70-200] but it's unarguably more expensive. The Nikon big guns [300/4 and up] are more expensive than the Canon lenses.

Let's face it, neither is a bad camera - don't sweat it, you'll be happy as Larry with either - and both systems have the glass that you'll want after the fact. It really comes down to the ergonomics of the camera; you can have a 5D mark 2, 1D3 or D3, but when that once-in-a-lifetime shot comes along, if you can't operate the damn thing, you'll miss it...
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply.

originally i was much more swayed to the canon but after using my mates d50 and have a feel of both the d80 and 450d the d80 and its controls just felt at home and comfortable in my hand. i'm pretty sure the nikon is the one to go for for me, now its finding the best lens to start off with...
 
daftbugga said:
the 18-70

i realise it's very tempting to simply look at what you get for your £££s but, as the saying goes, never mind the width feel the quality .

thats what i tell my missus.
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:lol:

if you havent already sussed i am pretty much a novice when it comes with the world of DSLR's and all the letters and numbers associated with lenses etc dont mean alot to me at the moment. Could you explain the pros and cons between hte 18-70 and the 18-135? :)
 
I was in the same dilemma, D80 vs. 450D. I was going to go for the D80 because in terms of build quality and viewfinder I felt it was far superior.
But then I bough a 40D instead :lol:
 
these are a few shots i took using my mates D50 using (i think) a 18-55 mm lens

#1
DSC_1379.jpg


#2
DSC_1389.jpg


#3
DSC_1406.jpg


#4
DSC_1403.jpg


#5
DSC_1411.jpg


#6
DSC_1414.jpg


#7
DSC_1423.jpg


#8
DSC_1433.jpg


#9
DSC_1387.jpg
 
daftbugga said:
it really is simply the fact that the 18-70 is optically better than the 18-135

i dont understand the science ETC of lenses but zoom lenses are a compromise in image quality and the bigger the focal range the bigger the compromise in image quality .

that said the 18- 70 is a better lens than the 18-55
confused ? you will be .

and welcome to the madhouse.:D
Click to expand...

thank you again :)

so i think i am pretty much set, now i just have to sweet talk the missus into spending the extra dosh for that kit :)
 
daftbugga said:
good luck in your quest.
you might want to look here
http://www.interflora.co.uk/yahoosw/?cm_mmc=yahoo-_-brands-_-brands-_-interflora

and here
http://www.thorntons.co.uk/ThorntonsSite/pages/home/default.asp?&cookie_test=1

:D

some rather half decent photos there , not bad for a newbie:clap:
espeacilly no 7 ?? ( sp):thinking:
the rail bridge , suggest you number photos in future . it makes it easier for the hard of thinking such as me.
Click to expand...

:lol: :lol: :lol: thanks mate :D

picture post edited for the benefit of yourself and others :) i will remember it next time
 
and i think i might submit #1 to Most haunted and see what they make of the dark figure thats on the right behind the gate. there was nothing there when i took the picture and i dont think the shadows inside would have done it but it was pitch black when i took the picture so was a bit hard to tell..
 
You seem to be doing well, considering your just learning the bascs. Edinburgh is a great city to learn in too!

Just echo'ing whats already been said, I would definately go for the D80 + 18-70 combo.
 
Marcus, regarding the lenses and numbers, here's something I posted a week or so ago...

What your eyes see is about the same as a 35mm lens on your new camera. [don't let anyone start telling you about 'APS-C crops' etc please, it'll just add confusion for now..]

Below 35mm, it becomes 'wider angle'. Above 35mm, it becomes more 'telephoto'.

18-55mm is a good starting range for wider angles [eg landscapes & group shots] through to everday shots. [Because 55 is about 3x18, manufacturers would call this a "3x optical zoom" - although to confuse things, anything can be a '3x optical zoom' as long as the bigger number is three times the smaller number eg 24-72, 100-300 etc]

If you want to zoom really close up to things like wildlife, you'll need a second lens - for example a 70-300mm [which gets you about ten times closer than your eyes can see, remember they 'see' at about 35mm.] There are good, new, lenses available for less than £100 - look at Tamron or Sigma, both make good lenses for Canon and Nikon.
 
Sam_G said:
You seem to be doing well, considering your just learning the bascs. Edinburgh is a great city to learn in too!

Just echo'ing whats already been said, I would definately go for the D80 + 18-70 combo.
Click to expand...

thanks sam :) my mind has been made up, will definately be getting the D80 :D

danbroad said:
Marcus, regarding the lenses and numbers, here's something I posted a week or so ago...

What your eyes see is about the same as a 35mm lens on your new camera. [don't let anyone start telling you about 'APS-C crops' etc please, it'll just add confusion for now..]

Below 35mm, it becomes 'wider angle'. Above 35mm, it becomes more 'telephoto'.

18-55mm is a good starting range for wider angles [eg landscapes & group shots] through to everday shots. [Because 55 is about 3x18, manufacturers would call this a "3x optical zoom" - although to confuse things, anything can be a '3x optical zoom' as long as the bigger number is three times the smaller number eg 24-72, 100-300 etc]

If you want to zoom really close up to things like wildlife, you'll need a second lens - for example a 70-300mm [which gets you about ten times closer than your eyes can see, remember they 'see' at about 35mm.] There are good, new, lenses available for less than £100 - look at Tamron or Sigma, both make good lenses for Canon and Nikon.
Click to expand...

thanks for the explanation, im am slightly less confused than i was before :)
 
daftbugga said:
marcus
having reread my posts i realise i forgot to mention the reason why the 18-70 is such a good lens, the mention of the letters ED - extra low dispertion glass .. for that read minimum distortion ,it's the same glass as used in nikon lenses that have a gold ring , pro quality lenses .

this site
http://www.clubsnap.com/maintenance.html?t=290533

is under maintance at the moment but you will find a list of nikon lens terms with explation of what the letters mean.


not that i'm trying to confuse you further of course :naughty:

and of course a link that worked would be even better ,

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=40
Click to expand...

excellent, thanks again, thats a great help, learning something new everyday! :D
 
been having a look round for the D80 + 18-70mm lens,

cheapest i've found so far is £529 at jessops (£549 - £20 online discount code :D) and no delivery as just collect at local store 5 mins away from me. anybody else know of anywhere cheaper?
 
jessops are probably the cheapest because they have the D80 on special but that £20 discount code doesn't apply to dSLR's, sorry :(
 
Marcus25 said:
been having a look round for the D80 + 18-70mm lens,

cheapest i've found so far is £529 at jessops (£549 - £20 online discount code :D) and no delivery as just collect at local store 5 mins away from me. anybody else know of anywhere cheaper?
Click to expand...


Jessops are pretty much the cheapest when it comes to UK Nikon bodies/kits, their business model seems to be to discount the major purchase and then overcharge on everything else to make their money, so buy the camera there but don't get suckered into paying £55 for a £10 memory card :lol:

Timmy's right about the discount code not applying to dslrs though, but even so Jessops are still cheaper than everyone else

Btw, you can set the top lcd illumination for the D80 to remain on, but obviously it will eat into battery life a wee bit...
 
Another thing to consider....the kit with the 18-135mm lens is only £10 more, but the lens itself would sell for an extra £30-50 secondhand when you decide to upgrade.......
 
Simply based on your friend having a D300 I would plump for the D80.

Personally I would look for a S/H example with an 18-70 lens (although the 18-135 is OK), that way you'll have some money left over to get a bag, flash (S/H SB600), filters, memory cards and everything else that goes to make this hobby so damned expensive ;).

If you want further reach a S/H 70-300 VR is a good starter lens, if you only want a single lens a S/H 18-200 VR may be worth considering if you are lucky enough to find one.

Keep an eye on the For Sale section here, you can find some great bargains and I personally feel that there it's more secure than e-bay.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Jessops are pretty much the cheapest when it comes to UK Nikon bodies/kits, their business model seems to be to discount the major purchase and then overcharge on everything else to make their money, so buy the camera there but don't get suckered into paying £55 for a £10 memory card :lol:

Timmy's right about the discount code not applying to dslrs though, but even so Jessops are still cheaper than everyone else

Btw, you can set the top lcd illumination for the D80 to remain on, but obviously it will eat into battery life a wee bit...
Click to expand...

wont be buying anything else from them apart from the camera

can you/anybody link me to the cheapest place for a spare nikon battery and also a good large capacity memory card and a decent rucksack?

and simon, all that stuff is coming from a seperate budget, but just gonna start by getting a rucksack, memory card and a 2nd battery and a tripod, already got in mind http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=10901 + http://www.warehouseexpress.com/product/default.aspx?sku=1017664 for the tripod

a rucksack, memory card and a 2nd battery

flash and other lenses will come later :)
 
Marcus25 said:
I was out on friday night with my mate who's got a D300 and he let me use his backup camera (D50). i've never used one before and he's going to be teaching me. only things we worked on was shutterspeed and focusing so i've barely scratched the surface.

Im torn between a D80 and a 450D. my budget is £500 max.

As its my first dslr and this will be my learning tool would the d80 or the 450d with there own 18-55mm kit lens be a good base to start with?

I will be doing all sorts of photography, car, nature, urbex, daytime, night time etc etc so i was thinking i'll need a decent all round lens, if i was to get the 450d i was looking at perhaps a sigma 28-300 lens to start as a good all rounder for close up shots and long distance wide angle shots.

I went into jessops yesterday and they let me have a hold of the D80 and the 450D. after using my mates D50 the D80 felt very familiar and all the buttons felt familiar. the 450D felt very light and didnt fit in my hands very well. Something i found on my mates D50 was 1st the LCD screen on the top wasnt backlit so when we were out i had to keep using a torch to see what settings i was using and also the camera struggled to take pictures as only seemed to have 5 focusing points so i had to keep moving about and took an age to be able to take the shot.

the 450D as you know doesnt have the LCD screen on the top for viewing the settings so would obviously have to use the large LCD screen, but is the D80's LCD screen on the top backlit?

So for my budget, what would you suggest between the D80 and the 450D and also a lens for it (weather it be a kit lens or buying body and another lens seperately)

Thanks, Marc
Click to expand...

Have you SERIOUSLY considered the S5 PRO? Its a Nikon Camera, with a Fuji Badge. It competes with TOP END CAMERAS for Image Qualty, so I am told, and so the reviews would have you believe.

Brand new for £500.

There are bad points too, navigating menus etc is very slow, but surely, its all about the images?

Gary.
 
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