120 film camera

twhite87

twhite87

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I've just been given a shed load (and I do mean a shed load...... approx 150 rolls) of 120 film and 35mm film. I already have a 35mm film camera (Nikon F60), but fancy getting into doing a bit of 120 stuff with the possibility of doing some darkroom developing when I finally move house and get some space. I've heard the Holga 120 or the Diana f+ are a good place to start. Just wondered what you thoughts were and if anyone had any pearls of wisdom they might want to share with me on what camera to buy. Don;t want to spend too much as it's only playing around to begin with.
 
What about a TLR , plenty around for cheap
 
twhite87 said:
I've just been given a shed load (and I do mean a shed load...... approx 150 rolls) of 120 film and 35mm film. I already have a 35mm film camera (Nikon F60), but fancy getting into doing a bit of 120 stuff with the possibility of doing some darkroom developing when I finally move house and get some space. I've heard the Holga 120 or the Diana f+ are a good place to start. Just wondered what you thoughts were and if anyone had any pearls of wisdom they might want to share with me on what camera to buy. Don;t want to spend too much as it's only playing around to begin with.
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It depends what you want to do. There are heaps of options in the world of 120 format cameras.

From different frame sizes (e.g., 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, etc.), to various cameras types (e.g., SLRs, TLRs, Rangefingers, etc.), to different shutters (e.g., focal plane versus leaf), to different finders (e.g., waist level, 45 degrees, eye level, etc.), there is a lot to choose from.

What are you looking to do with the camera? What do you want to photograph? Do you have a preference for frame size? Do you like waist level viewing or eye-level prisms? Do you want to be able to change film mid-roll?

If you start chipping away at these sorts of questions, it'll make your camera choice much easier in the end.
 
No idea about frame sizes, Would prefer SLR type. No idea about shutters. What difference do they make? more comfortable with eye level viewfinder. I've played about with the Diana F before and enjoyed it. Just wondered if people thought they were good or thought something else was better. I'd probably use it to take candid street stuff. Would;t really want to change film mid roll either.
 
Cheap: plenty of old folders on eBay, from £10 to £40 (or more for the really good ones). Isolettes/Ensigns/Voigtlanders/etc. Obviously the integrity of the bellows is an issue, especially if you don't get to look at it first.

Medium price: TLRs from £60. Yashica, Rolleicord, Microcords, Autocords, etc. There have been a few bargains on the forums here recently, otherwise there are loads from £90 upwards from reputable dealers.

Pricier - Bronica/Pentax/etc SLRs. £150-£300

Expensive: Mamiya 6/7/Hasselblads/Fuji

I personally think the sweet-spot is a £100 TLR, but others may differ. You may be more comfortable with an eye-level finder, but I love looking down into a huge waist-level finder.

No experience with Holga, but they seem to be pretty expensive for what they are.
 
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twhite87 said:
No idea about frame sizes, Would prefer SLR type. No idea about shutters. What difference do they make? more comfortable with eye level viewfinder. I've played about with the Diana F before and enjoyed it. Just wondered if people thought they were good or thought something else was better. I'd probably use it to take candid street stuff. Would;t really want to change film mid roll either.
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I posted a thread a few days ago about TLR's, which is worth reading even if your initial thoughts are not wanting that kind of format. One of the things has struck me about them is the simplicity to set up/use compared to some of the other MF options, though chose carefully and other formats will be no more difficult. Failing that, just send the 120 film to film to me :D
 
Have a look at the Ross Ensigns. They were the best British cameras and their lenses were considered the equal of Zeiss, they will knock any Holgas into a cocked hat.

This is the 16-20, small enough to fit in a coat pocket with a stunning, sharp lens and built to last. This one cost me £24 including postage

Front-Open by andysnapper1, on Flickr

And a couple of shots from it.

Branches by andysnapper1, on Flickr

St-Paul's-1-b&w by andysnapper1, on Flickr

They take a 6 x 4.5 negative with tons of detail.

There is also a 12-20 which shoots 6 x 6 and an 820 which shoots 6 x 9, but they are a bit more expensive.

Andy
 
Personally I wouldn't take any of the Holga cameras seriously which is not to say a good picture has never been taken on one but they are definitely "art cameras"

There are not many options in eye level medium format SLR's which you seem most interested in.

Pentax 6x7, 67 and 67II Huge beast of a camera the originals with out lens can be found for maybe £150 the latest 67II with a lens is looking more like £1000ish although you might get lucky (I paid £660 for one with the 45mm)
It was a pro system camera there is a full range of lenses and accessories with the AE Pentaprism you even get aperture priority and matrix meeting only real potential downside other than being huge is the 30th of a second flash sync although a couple of leaf shutter lenses were made.

MF shutters tend to be leaf shutters on the lens and typically offfer 1 second to 1/500second with flash sync at all speeds, things like the few Eye level SLR's have cloth focal plane shutters which due to their size tend to be rather slow on the flash sync front.

There was also the Exakta 66 that hadSchnieder lenses also huge and probably still expensive also rare.

East German Pentacon 6 are relatively cheap the Exaka is a more refined West German version if you like there is also the Kiev 66 if that is of interest then MW classic have a sensibly priced one on this page.


16584839118_c21b87db94_z.jpg


For street photography range finders might be a better bet if you have the funds the Mamiya 6 and seven are universally rated as excellent and have several lenses they are also in the £100o bracket there are also a range of options from Fuji in the £350 and up range in various formats while as Andy has said there is lots of choices in the Folders from the 1930's to 1960's.

While the folders are quite compact and pretty good optically the results do not really compare with the later models aimed at the professional market but they can easily provide better quality than 35mm film.

For convenience you could look for things like the Super Ikonta IV which had built in coupled range finder and a built in but uncoupled meter these are probably £250ish plus if you don't need a range finder or meter Agfa Isolettes and many others are £10 territory.



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Picking up the Medium Format Manual from Amazon for a penny plus the £2.80 postage cost would be worthwhile
 
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My vote would be for a TLR as well, especially if you want to do some street shooting with it. Nothing is more inconspicuous than a small tlr held against your belly whilst looking downwards into it. Much less obvious than an slr held up to your face!

Something like a Rolleicord V (£100-120 on the bay) would be great, I haven't used one myself but they get nothing but praise on here. They are very small and look beautiful as well. Or a Mamiya such as the C220 (about £150) would be good for candid street shots as you can change the lens :)
 
My pennyworth. This sort of question always depends on what and how you personally want to achieve. A lot of the crowd here value technical perfection. Therefore they will value a well made camera with a good lens. Chinese toy cameras like Holga and Diana embrace technical imperfection. The value that their users place on them is not to create a sharp, detailed, nor realistically coloured image, but to create images that are regarded as aesthetic without technical perfection. They are part of a broader rebellion against what some see as a Digital Age of sharp perfection. Some Holga users are very fond of their gear - but they are very alternative.

A cheap alternative to a Holga, is to simply use old cameras. From box cameras to cheap compact 35mm cameras. My main alternative camera is a 35mm compact camera that cost me 50p at a car boot sale. Even looks like a small Lomo, but in my opinion, it is better. A medium format alternative is a Lomo Lubitel 166B TLR that I paid £3 for. The Soviet Union pumped out huge numbers of these. Ironically Lomography still commisions a Lubitel TLR, but they charge considerably more than three quid for them.

As for myself, I rarely pay more than £25 for any film camera. I did make an exception though for my best camera - a Bronica SQ-A, that I paid £180 for. That is a system SLR camera. I have also invested in a nice 150mm lens, and more film backs for it. When I want to create more technically perfect images, I use my Bronica. Medium format system cameras such as the Bronica, Mamiya, and Hasselblad, were stable gear for wedding and studio photographers during the 1970s - 90s. A lot of these high quality systems have been dumped onto the markets by studios switching to digital.

I will also recommend folders. I sometimes have fun using cheap old Agfa Isolettes. They certainly solicit attention. However - beware of the light leaking aged bellows!
 
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Another vote for a folder if you just want a cheap gateway drug introduction, an Ikonta 524 has an uncoupled range finder and stopped down is more than sharp enough.
 
twhite87 said:
I've just been given a shed load (and I do mean a shed load...... approx 150 rolls) of 120 film and 35mm film. I already have a 35mm film camera...
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Darn it to heck. I was hoping you were going to continue with "does anyone want the 120 film" !!

steveo_mcg said:
Another vote for a folder if you just want a cheap gateway drug introduction, an Ikonta
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If you do just want somthing cheap to try it out, I have a Kodak folder which takes 120 film which you can have for the postage cost.


Steve.
 
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XA2inmypocket said:
Chinese toy cameras like Holga and Diana embrace technical imperfection. The value that their users place on them is not to create a sharp, detailed, nor realistically coloured image, but to create images that are regarded as aesthetic without technical perfection.
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XA2inmypocket said:
When I want to create more technically perfect images, I use my Bronica.
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Paul, I think that you're confusing technical perfection with reliability. The act of using a 'better' camera doesn't make your photos any more technically perfect, but the results are generally more reliable and consistent, all other things being equal.

Both Holgas and Bronicas are capable of producing photographic art. My issue with the cameras like Holgas and Dianas is the lack of control over the image making process coupled with their unreliability. Sometimes their lack of reliability can be desirable though.
 
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XA2inmypocket said:
Really? My partner's Diana states made in China. To my knowledge, Holga is based in Hong Kong. My bad, I didn't realise that they are Russian
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I actually edited that out of my post (obviously not before you had seen it though), as I'm actually unsure now. You might be right, they could be Chinese.
 
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Holga is Russian (eastern block), but I'm pretty sure the Diana has always been Chinese.
 
I'm sorry guys. Holga IS Chinese. As is Diana. They are plastic cameras with plastic lens. They are as I originally suggested, Chinese toy cameras. I'm not disrespecting their fans. However, a plastic meniscus lens and tog exposure controls are not really the tools of those seeking technical perfection. They can create attractive images in the right hands, but not technically perfect.
 
Steve Smith said:
If you do just want somthing cheap to try it out, I have a Kodak folder which takes 120 film which you can have for the postage cost.


Steve.
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Very generous Steve, I think that Tim ( @twhite87 ) would be daft not to take you up on that offer!

( I really do love the F&C section sometimes... )
 
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Steve Smith said:
I also have a Lubitel with the same offer to the OP.

EDIT: And to any one else if he doesn't want it.

Steve.
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Hi Steve, I have a friend who is looking to get a film camera soon (think he's got tired of hearing me tell him that he needs to try shooting film and has given in just to shut me up :D ) I'm sure if the OP doesn't fancy the Lubitel then my friend would be happy to buy it off of you :)
 
Steve Smith said:
Darn it to heck. I was hoping you were going to continue with "does anyone want the 120 film" !!



If you do just want somthing cheap to try it out, I have a Kodak folder which takes 120 film which you can have for the postage cost.


Steve.
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I believe I will take you up on that offer. Let me know details of cost, etc.

Not really after perfection. I kinda like the way the Diana and Holga produce a soft 'dirty' image......So i've gone ahead and bought one too.

I have a horrible feeling that considering I haven't even taken a single shot yet, I'm rapidly getting hooked and this is spiralling way out of control and I could end up spending more that I bargained for..... Oh well, the joys of photography! :D
 
twhite87 said:
I have a horrible feeling that considering I haven't even taken a single shot yet, I'm rapidly getting hooked and this is spiralling way out of control and I could end up spending more that I bargained for.....
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Yep, that's exactly what's going to happen. There is literally no escape. You just as well call the mrs and tell her you're not going to be home for tea, because once you enter the F&C section, no one will let you leave!
 
twhite87 said:
I believe I will take you up on that offer. Let me know details of cost, etc.
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O.K. I have a busy weekend ahead so it won't be posted until Monday. Judging by previous experience, it should be under £5.

If you send me your address by private message, I will post it.


Steve.
 
skysh4rk said:
I actually edited that out of my post (obviously not before you had seen it though), as I'm actually unsure now. You might be right, they could be Chinese.
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I think you were mixing up Holga with Lomo. Same aesthetic, different origin.
 
twhite87 said:
I believe I will take you up on that offer. Let me know details of cost, etc.

Not really after perfection. I kinda like the way the Diana and Holga produce a soft 'dirty' image......So i've gone ahead and bought one too.

I have a horrible feeling that considering I haven't even taken a single shot yet, I'm rapidly getting hooked and this is spiralling way out of control and I could end up spending more that I bargained for..... Oh well, the joys of photography! :D
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:lol: welcome to the dark side.... I have also been naughty this week... update to my own thread coming up
 
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