10 stop ND filter - How will it perform in the bright daylight?

swag72

swag72

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Sara
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I have seen some belting shots with a 10 stop ND filter. They all seem to have been taken during the dusky / early morning times. I am interested in whether I would be able to achieve similar results (misty water etc) during a bright day?

I of course will try to use the best light available, but if not, will I get equal results on a bright sunny day? Or is this asking to much of a 10 stop filter?
 
I ended up with a 15 second exposure with one of these in very good light (actually very bad light, good light is never "good light" its bad light.. )

Anyhow, yes, you can still do longer exposures.
 
swag72 said:
I of course will try to use the best light available, but if not, will I get equal results on a bright sunny day? Or is this asking to much of a 10 stop filter?
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Think about it.

What determines exposure time? How are those values interlinked? And of them, which is changing by increasing the intensity of light and what would happen to the other values as a result?

If you don't know, then someone can point it out to the letter for you. But it would be more useful for you to reason it through for yourself, with perhaps a gentle nudge in the right direction.
 
Short answer is yes, if you use a low ISO and stop down.
 
:thinking:

Exposure time determined by light and aperture .................. How am I doing so far? Values are interlinked by ....... increasing the aperture (smaller F number) by 1 stop, you have to half the shutter speed to get the same exposure ..................... Have I got that right so far?
 
Don't people use two or more for very bright conditions? Only guessing as Im still waiting to get one and try it for myself
Steve :thumbs:
 
A 10 stop ND would be so dark that you would barely see through it, even on a very good sunny day.

So, yes, it could be used to give the milky-water effect in daytime .. but you don't need to go that far up on the ND scale to get the effect you're talking about.

For example, Formatt (who do some really good filters) charge about £25 for the ND 10, while their set of 3 ND filters (ND 0.3, 0.6 and 0.9) is just over £30. These three plus a small aperture would give you enough long exposure to get the desired effect, even in good sunlight.
 
Would I be right in thingking a 10 stop ND filter will result in exposures 1000 (1024 to be exact) times slower? So a 1/1000s exposure without the filter would produce the same exposure at 1s with the filter. Or has my maths gone up the spout?
 
ranarama said:
Would I be right in thingking a 10 stop ND filter will result in exposures 1000 (1024 to be exact) times slower? So a 1/1000s exposure without the filter would produce the same exposure at 1s with the filter. Or has my maths gone up the spout?
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Yep, I believe you're right.

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, ordered from Warehouse Express over 2 weeks ago but still not here yet, I think they are a special order item so I understand but I'm getting impatient! Anyone else ordered one from the same place? How long did yours take to arrive?
 
I believe 10 ND are made to order, at least Formatt filters are. Any ways, Formatt state that it would take up to 2 weeks to deliver, but mine arrived in 3 days (ordered from their web site directly).
 
swag72 said:
:thinking:

Exposure time determined by light and aperture .................. How am I doing so far? Values are interlinked by ....... increasing the aperture (smaller F number) by 1 stop, you have to half the shutter speed to get the same exposure ..................... Have I got that right so far?
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Yeah, you're just about on the money there.

You've got aperture, shutter speed and ISO as the main factors, with the brightness of the light being the fourth. It's reasonable to assume that with ISO, aperture and shutter speed as the same, the brightness would be the determining factor.

All other things being equal, you'll get longer shutter speeds (and more of that 'misty' effect) in lower light than you would during the middle of the day. Obviously you could adjust some of the other factors to produce a similar result, but being they would be aperture or ISO it might not necessarily be desirable.

But having said all that, given an ND10 filters inherent properties, you'll get a nice effect at any time of the day, conditions permitting.
 
Wail said:
I believe 10 ND are made to order, at least Formatt filters are. Any ways, Formatt state that it would take up to 2 weeks to deliver, but mine arrived in 3 days (ordered from their web site directly).
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I can't find that on their website - do you have a link to it?
 
Thanks - I'm assumming that filter with a density of 3 is the one I'm looking for (equal to ND10)?
 
Tom has the right links; and yes the 3.0 is the ND10 ... giving 10 stops. However, unless you need the 100mm filters, you may want to change that to the 85mm ones, which are a lot cheaper too.

Keep in mind that prices are exclusive of VAT.
 
Should "refresh page" before I reply :)
 
Wail said:
while their set of 3 ND filters (ND 0.3, 0.6 and 0.9) is just over £30. These three plus a small aperture would give you enough long exposure to get the desired effect
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If the dersired effect you want is a magenta cast. :bang:

Sorry, I wouldn't recommend stacking HiTech ND's unless you like your photos pink!
 
Lee,

I saw your other thread on this matter, but I haven't yet double checked my photos to see what caused this effect.

Yes, I've had a very similar problem with some of my shots (actually, they were my first outing with the Formatt set) ... but on the 2nd, and every consecutive outing, I've had a whole different set of results (exactly what I had wanted & expected).

I will post some of the pictures in your other thread.

If I thought Formatt were giving this magenta cast out of a fault of their design, I would send them all back for a refund; but I am being to believe it is not necessarily the filter :shrug:
 
I've got one and very pleased with the results it gives me.

You have to compose with it off and switch to manual focus. I usually end up just doing a bit of guess-work with the exposure time and then adjusting after checking the outcome on the LCD.

Here is one from a while back.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kennysarmy/3144928767/

and I took some at the weekend which I should upload to flickr tonight.

Cheers.
 
68lbs said:
If the dersired effect you want is a magenta cast. :bang:

Sorry, I wouldn't recommend stacking HiTech ND's unless you like your photos pink!
Click to expand...

Isn't that cokin not hitech? Even then only on the older cokin filters, their new ones are true nd

Never heard anyone have anything bad to say about hitechs before
 
I wonder; when shooting a lot of long exposures, the sensor gets hot. Would it be possible for this heat to cause any colour-casting problems?
 
Wail said:
I wonder; when shooting a lot of long exposures, the sensor gets hot. Would it be possible for this heat to cause any colour-casting problems?
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Surely it would get equally as hot if you are using a screw on filter - but there does not appear to be a caste issue when they are used.
 
Wail said:
I wonder; when shooting a lot of long exposures, the sensor gets hot. Would it be possible for this heat to cause any colour-casting problems?
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No, exposures aren't long enough.

Actually the B&W 10-stop ND does have a bit of a colour cast I've found (which surprised me as the N stands for neutral...)
 
Good to know .. I was just wondering, as I have no clue on the science of all this.
 
Wail said:
If I thought Formatt were giving this magenta cast out of a fault of their design, I would send them all back for a refund; but I am being to believe it is not necessarily the filter
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I have been looking back through my images too regarding this matter.

Unfortunately I don't seem to have started using the filters before my 5D, so everything here is based on full frame meaning that the problems are either with the filters, full frameness or my camera.

However, I can fairly confidently say that the problems occur when stacking a ND with a GND. In all examples, as far as I remember, I am using a 0.9 GND combined with either a 0.9 or 3.0 ND. Even one of my 1.6s images is showing slight signs of a magenta cast, getting progressively worse as the exposure time increases upto 160s.

Uneducated_Rick said:
Isn't that cokin not hitech?
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Nope, these are HiTech/Formatt.

Uneducated_Rick said:
Never heard anyone have anything bad to say about hitechs before
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Yay! I'm the first! Oh... that's not good, is it? :bang:
 
Jambo_84 said:
Yep, I believe you're right.

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive, ordered from Warehouse Express over 2 weeks ago but still not here yet, I think they are a special order item so I understand but I'm getting impatient! Anyone else ordered one from the same place? How long did yours take to arrive?
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Order from wokingham photographic, i recommend phoning them first to see if they actually have it in stock, i did and had mine the next day.
 
puddleduck said:
No, exposures aren't long enough.

Actually the B&W 10-stop ND does have a bit of a colour cast I've found (which surprised me as the N stands for neutral...)
Click to expand...

Its common for 10stop nd filters to have a warm cast although i`m not sure exactly why, but think thats why its recommended to convert the pics to black and white.

Maybe it could be corrected a little if shot in RAW?

One of mine
3316135616_31e358677a.jpg
 
68lbs said:
I have been looking back through my images too regarding this matter.

Unfortunately I don't seem to have started using the filters before my 5D, so everything here is based on full frame meaning that the problems are either with the filters, full frameness or my camera.

However, I can fairly confidently say that the problems occur when stacking a ND with a GND. In all examples, as far as I remember, I am using a 0.9 GND combined with either a 0.9 or 3.0 ND. Even one of my 1.6s images is showing slight signs of a magenta cast, getting progressively worse as the exposure time increases upto 160s.



Nope, these are HiTech/Formatt.



Yay! I'm the first! Oh... that's not good, is it? :bang:
Click to expand...



Well, this is baffling me :shrug:

May be, if this is not too much of a bother, you ought to test each one on it's own.

Do a matix of filter / filter combination vs. time, and see what results you get.

If I have the time, I will do the same tomorrow, and post what results I can and may be we can then compare.

I am sure, if there is something with the filters then Formatt would be too happy to hear from you on this.
 
Wail said:
if this is not too much of a bother, you ought to test each one on it's own.
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Sorry mate, unlikely to do anything that scientific at the minute. What with work, dark nights, and diy stuff at home, a few hours on a sunday is all the time i get. I might try the ND's on their own though.

BTW... apologies to the OP if this has gone off topic. It's all fairly relevant though to the original discussion.
 
Yes, sorry Sara, if we've gone way off on a tangent here; but I hope this helps you decide on which set to get :shrug:

No worries, Lee. I will try and do some test tomorrow, or the day-after at the very latest.
 
No problem :thumbs: Definately made good reading and will def stick with the screw in - Mmm, just got to find one now, they seem rarer than rocking horse poop at the moment!
 
Sorry, I have no idea ... I didn't know they come in "coated" versions.

Circular Polarisers (CP) come in Coated & Uncoated, and for the life of me I could never find a consensus as to what the coating is all about!

When I bought my CP filters, I opted for the multi-coated ones, more expensive, but then I couldn't get a multi-coated slim 82mm CP (for a wide angle lens I have) from the same brand .. so I went with the standard (these were Heliopna CPs, mind; but almost up there with B+W for quality). I couldn't tell the difference between the Coated & Uncoated types.

Of course, this could be purely due to my lack of experience :shrug:

The way I look at it ... B+W are some of the best filters on the market; so, even going with their uncoated (which I am guessing is cheaper) filters you'd be A. O.K.

Of course, I am open to be corrected on this.
 
WHE seem to be out of stock for a lot of the good stuff. I keep checking their site, and a few others, on a daily basis. WHE used to be the one, of a very few, that had most stuff in stock; now, that's no longer the case :shrug:

I hope they're not going under .. low sales, higher prices, smaller profit margins :'(
 
puddleduck said:
No, exposures aren't long enough.

Actually the B&W 10-stop ND does have a bit of a colour cast I've found (which surprised me as the N stands for neutral...)
Click to expand...

I've got the B+W 3.0 ND filter and the images are definitely warm with it and I convert most of my long exposure shots to B&W. I didn't understand the neutral part either.
 
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