Apple MacBook Neo?

I’ve been in to John Lewis and Apple. I’ve had a good play and opened activity monitor on the Neo. It’s snappy and quick but even just playing in the store on the loaded apps I was at 6 gb ram and high green pressure. So I’ve decided to give it a miss. I don’t feel there is a lot of scope for growth with it. If my daughter uses it and starts running more intense stuff for A level or university then I’m not sure it will grow much with her. So, safer I feel to get the air with 16 gb ram as it should then see her through next 4-6 years at a push (she will use my M4 base model air) and has more scope to allow her to load more apps and things like that if she needs to for future studies. I have lots of external drives she can have if needed.
 
myotis said:
You can attach a monitor to the USB-c port. but unlike the air and pro, you can only attach one external monitor, and only to the faster port.

Unike the air and pro, only one the ports is a "fast" port. the other is a usb-2 speed.
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Is it a built in limitation or could you run a second monitor through a hub? I run a couple of 27" screens from my 3 year old Lenovo and that's only got a lowish spec Ryzen chip set.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Is it a built in limitation or could you run a second monitor through a hub? I run a couple of 27" screens from my 3 year old Lenovo and that's only got a lowish spec Ryzen chip set.
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I don't know :-(
 
thedistrictline said:
usb 2 in 2026!, classic apple
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To be fair to Apple, this is a good looking, fairly capable laptop for a fair price. There are always going to be limitations and I presume there is nothing stopping you putting a dock onto the faster port and sharing that bandwidth whilst charging using the slower port. Apple are not suggesting that this is the answer for every user and if you want more then pay more and get an Air and if that is insufficient then get a Pro.
 
Tulipone said:
To be fair to Apple, this is a good looking, fairly capable laptop for a fair price. There are always going to be limitations and I presume there is nothing stopping you putting a dock onto the faster port and sharing that bandwidth whilst charging using the slower port. Apple are not suggesting that this is the answer for every user and if you want more then pay more and get an Air and if that is insufficient then get a Pro.
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This is one of the things that put me off Apple. I don't want to spend the time and effort to have dangly things hanging from my laptop to overcome limitations. I know Apple have their fans and probably rightly so but for people who can't be bothered, like me, there seem to be too many niggles to overcome with cables and adapters and dangling things.
 
thedistrictline said:
usb 2 in 2026!, classic apple
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I think it's being seen as the "charger" port, leaving you a faster port for a docking station. If you plug an external drive or something similar into the slow port, you get a warning message telling you to use the other port for better speed.

I suppose they need to save their money somewhere, and it needs to be looked at in terms of how little it costs.
 
Tulipone said:
To be fair to Apple, this is a good looking, fairly capable laptop for a fair price. There are always going to be limitations and I presume there is nothing stopping you putting a dock onto the faster port and sharing that bandwidth whilst charging using the slower port. Apple are not suggesting that this is the answer for every user and if you want more then pay more and get an Air and if that is insufficient then get a Pro.
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I love apple more than most people but I think it was to keep ppl buying the more expensive models, if the Neo could drive two displays it would cannibalize the entry level airs etc, I cant see there being a significant cost difference when usb 3 has been round 10+ years ( in my humble usually very wrong opinion)

Its a great offering, I never thought Id see Apple going that low on price, seems like a great gateway drug to get more ppl into the ecosystem. My money is it wiping the floor of any similar priced windows machine ( performance wise at least not necessarily on hdd space etc)
 
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woof woof said:
This is one of the things that put me off Apple. I don't want to spend the time and effort to have dangly things hanging from my laptop to overcome limitations. I know Apple have their fans and probably rightly so but for people who can't be bothered, like me, there seem to be too many niggles to overcome with cables and adapters and dangling things.
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Yes but it does look nice
 
I think the Neo will do very well for its target audience, those who do very little but surf, email, word type stuff and stream music or video on their laptop - my wife would be an example of this user group. Check her various emails, 365 outlook web for work, Google docs and drive and YouTube / YouTube music. When her current HP laptop dies, I would tell her to get one of these.

She has a HP laptop at the moment that is as old as the hills and has 8gb ram from 1990 lol. It's sooo slow, I can't use it, drives me insane.

My work laptop is a surface book something or other with a detachable screen. It's great, but every time it does a windows update I end up calling my IT team as I can't access something, or something else has been taken off or switched off...it's so annoying. I still have my Asus Zenbook duo which is a great laptop with dual screens. Few years old now but still flies through anything you throw at it...so long as it's plugged in
 
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Tulipone said:
Yes but it does look nice
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I stopped caring about computers many years ago so I leave what looks nice and what badge is on it to others. All I want is something that works with the least possible faff on. I can see how the neo will be popular with Apple fans but I hope that like people in this thread they realise the limitations that come with the cheaper price and accept that getting around some of them that can be got around means living with dangly things.
 
myotis said:
I think it's being seen as the "charger" port, leaving you a faster port for a docking station. If you plug an external drive or something similar into the slow port, you get a warning message telling you to use the other port for better speed.

I suppose they need to save their money somewhere, and it needs to be looked at in terms of how little it costs.
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A little digging - it's all down to the A18 Pro system on a chip at the heart of the machine; it was designed for energy efficiency, to used in phones and tablets and pulled from the parts bin for this laptop.

The A18 Pro has one USB 3.2 Gen 2 controller capable of 10 Gb/s. There is one pipeline exposed for external video up to 4k60 over DisplayPort 1.4 through that controller only. Plenty fine for use with an iPhone or iPad.

I'm not sure 10Gbps USB can support multiple 4K60 streams anyhow, my back of the envelope calculations reckon it's using most of the available bandwidth for just one; I suspect you'd be limited to 4k30 with two displays even if the A18 allowed it.
 
myotis said:
Here is a (long) comparison between a Neo and an M4 Macbook Pro with 48gb Ram, specifically for LR/PS and come 4k video editing.

With some exceptions, the Neo does pretty well.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBFi-JTQZhk
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Shock horror, Apples £600 laptop isn't as good as their £2800 laptop.

You simply can't truly compare a machine at £599 with one over 4.5 time the cost at £2799. I do think many are missing the point the Neo is a £600 machine it should not be expected to compete with a near £3000 one.

Do we expect a Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 to be as good as a Canon RF 100-300mm F2.8 L IS USM, they are both from Canon and both 300mm, but of course we don't expect the same performance, and no full-time pro sports tog will buy one, it's horse for courses.

​

 
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Delphin said:
Shock horror, Apples £600 laptop isn't as good as their £2800 laptop.

You simply can't truly compare a machine at £599 with one over 4.5 time the cost at £2799. I do think many are missing the point the Neo is a £600 machine it should not be expected to compete with a near £3000 one.
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TBH I don't know if it's good or not, and I'm not interested *enough* to watch reviews. I would probably compare it to a non-Apple laptop at £600, and my expectation is that in some areas is would be significantly better, while in others it might well be less good. £500-£600 is about the sweetspot for a tradeoff between low cost and acceptable performance, and it's essential to know what sacrifices you're will to make. Personally I think it's great to have an option at this level provided we're going to be realistic about what to expect.
 
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Delphin said:
You simply can't truly compare a machine at £599 with one over 4.5 time the cost at £2799. I do think many are missing the point the Neo is a £600 machine it should not be expected to compete with a near £3000 one.

Do we expect a Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 to be as good as a Canon RF 100-300mm F2.8 L IS USM, they are both from Canon and both 300mm, but of course we don't expect the same performance, and no full-time pro sports tog will buy one, it's horse for courses.

​

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It depends on the premise of the comparison. I'm not sure I've noticed anyone expecting it to "compete" with a £3000 machine?

In fact, I think most people are thinking the opposite and believe that a Mac at this sort of price, with a "phone" chip, isn't going to be worth buying.

The comparisons I've watched, seem to show a level of surprise and disbelief at how good the Neo is.
 
ancient_mariner said:
TBH I don't know if it's good or not, and I'm not interested *enough* to watch reviews. I would probably compare it to a non-Apple laptop at £600, and my expectation is that in some areas is would be significantly better, while in others it might well be well good. £500-£600 is about the sweetspot for a tradeoff between low cost and acceptable performance, and it's essential to know what sacrifices you're will to make. Personally I think it's great to have an option at this level provided we're going to be realistic about what to expect.
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Sort of an aside, as I'm in a position of needing to replace my 2012 MacBook Pro, but also have an M1 Mac Studio (I prefer desktops) as my main machine, I have been sufficiently interested to study several of the reviews that are available.

I have been encouraged (especially from that last review I posted) that it would make sense for me to get a Neo rather than a new MacBook Pro, and put the money saved towards replacing the M1 Studio.

I only really need the laptop for travel, where I use it for checking and backing up the day's photographs, along with basic writing/browsing/emails both away and at home watching TV. The reviews suggest that is also perfectly fine for basic photo/video editing.

For me it's complicated because circumstances may force me to give up my desktop and only have space for a laptop, so I may yet go with a higher-spec Macbook Pro or Air, but at the moment a Neo is looking likely.

Most of the reviews I've seen are by Mac users, but the reviews from people who review Windows and Mac machines are universally suggesting there is nothing from the Windows world (or Chrome) that can compete with the Neo at this price (at the moment).
 
myotis said:
I only really need the laptop for travel, where I use it for checking and backing up the day's photographs,
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10 Gbps USB might throttle the speed that backups can run at with two devices on the same bus. If it’s not a thousands of photos, that may not be a problem,, though.
 
myotis said:
I only really need the laptop for travel, where I use it for checking and backing up the day's photographs, along with basic writing/browsing/emails both away and at home watching TV. The reviews suggest that is also perfectly fine for basic photo/video editing.
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If you look much earlier in this thread, this was pretty much my use case also - I was in the Apple Store to collect my pre order and was kind of talked out of collecting as we agreed that it probably would not be good value for me, it was claimed that it¡d be much happier editing iphone photos and video rather than raw files

Had I pre ordered the Indigo rather than Citrus I would probably have found out for sure one way or the other by now.

If you buy one I'll be very interested in hearing how you get on. It isn’t that I cannot afford a MacBook Air, it is that I cannot justify spending that much more on a tool that'll have a limited use for me. £600 for the larger ssd (I qualify for Education discount) seemed a great deal.
 
Musicman said:
10 Gbps USB might throttle the speed that backups can run at with two devices on the same bus. If it’s not a thousands of photos, that may not be a problem,, though.
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I'm not overly concerned about this for my purposes.

Except for "wildlife" heavy days, when I might make several hundred exposures, I'm usually only talking about 10-40 exposures a day (sometimes less, and occasionally a few more), and I'm never in any hurry. Just as long as they are backed up before the next day.
 
Tulipone said:
If you look much earlier in this thread, this was pretty much my use case also - I was in the Apple Store to collect my pre order and was kind of talked out of collecting as we agreed that it probably would not be good value for me, it was claimed that it¡d be much happier editing iphone photos and video rather than raw files

Had I pre ordered the Indigo rather than Citrus I would probably have found out for sure one way or the other by now.

If you buy one I'll be very interested in hearing how you get on. It isn’t that I cannot afford a MacBook Air, it is that I cannot justify spending that much more on a tool that'll have a limited use for me. £600 for the larger ssd (I qualify for Education discount) seemed a great deal.
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You may well wait a long time for me to make up my mind :)

Before going for the Neo, I need to be confident my desktop will remain part of my life and the Neo will be my secondary machine.

Did you watch the video I posted


I wouldn't buy the Neo as my main photo-editing machine.
 
I have watched it. I have a Mac Mini M4 Pro that does all the editing and not yet broken into a sweat doing it. I have a feeling that the Neo would be fine for us and it wouldn’t surprise me if I went back and bought one over the weekend. You have two weeks to return it if not what you want.
 
Tulipone said:
I have watched it. I have a Mac Mini M4 Pro that does all the editing and not yet broken into a sweat doing it. I have a feeling that the Neo would be fine for us and it wouldn’t surprise me if I went back and bought one over the weekend. You have two weeks to return it if not what you want.
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You will be able to let me know how you get on with it then :-)
 
I think @ancient_mariner has nailed it.

This is a device for those that are hovering between an iPad and an actual computer. For many, to make an iPad useful, you have to add a keyboard case. Which ups the price significantly. This has it all, proper computer applications, no greasy fingerprints on the screen, a built-in case.
 
Pound Coin said:
I think @ancient_mariner has nailed it.

This is a device for those that are hovering between an iPad and an actual computer. For many, to make an iPad useful, you have to add a keyboard case. Which ups the price significantly. This has it all, proper computer applications, no greasy fingerprints on the screen, a built-in case.
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It's kind of an ipad that runs MacOS programs, with a keyboard

In 2011, I bought the 11" Macbook Air rather than an iPad, because running MacOs programs made it far more useful to me than an iPad.
 
Pound Coin said:
I think @ancient_mariner has nailed it.

This is a device for those that are hovering between an iPad and an actual computer. For many, to make an iPad useful, you have to add a keyboard case. Which ups the price significantly. This has it all, proper computer applications, no greasy fingerprints on the screen, a built-in case.
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That's one of the reasons I previously said this was the first step to killing off iPad.

I believe a very large percentage of iPad sales are to education, and would think given the choice of a real keyboard and macos apps many will prefer the neo.

Plus if you go for an iPad ( not mini) and apple keyboard it's actually more expensive than the equivalent neo (250gb)
 
Adamcski said:
Another video showing the differences between M5 air and neo

View: https://youtu.be/2yXyvQSUSYY?si=pA9Ti9suspNqufvo
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Useful video, but not unexpectedly, the Air has much better benchmarks (and some features), but it still doesn't detract from how good the Neo is for the price.

For many people, the extra money for the Air, may well bring advantages they simply won't notice, and for many people the extra money for the Air is a "lot" of money to find.
 
myotis said:
Useful video, but not unexpectedly, the Air has much better benchmarks (and some features), but it still doesn't detract from how good the Neo is for the price.

For many people, the extra money for the Air, may well bring advantages they simply won't notice, and for many people the extra money for the Air is a "lot" of money to find.
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Yes fully appreciate that but it was just to highlight the differences between them. No doubt the Neo is great for basic stuff but I still don’t believe it leaves much scope to grow as things change, but that is my opinion obviously.
 
Adamcski said:
Yes fully appreciate that but it was just to highlight the differences between them. No doubt the Neo is great for basic stuff but I still don’t believe it leaves much scope to grow as things change, but that is my opinion obviously.
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I think that's right; "growing" would mean a new laptop, but it's back to it being "fit for purpose"

It's going to be a long time before it becomes incapable of writing emails, browsing the web, watching streamed content, and doing a bit of touching up of your iPhone photos and videos. Which is what it's obviously aimed at.

It's also going to be good enough for many educational uses. Not if you are studying photography/video, or programming, etc but for non-computer intensive subjects, and indeed for most professional non-computer intensive uses, it should be fine.

Did you watch his Neo vs M1 Air video?

My guess is that there are lots of people still happily using their M1 Air (I'm still happy with my M1 Studio) and not feeling any desperate need to upgrade.
 
Yes I agree with that.

There are plenty of people, myself included, who have been happy using £250 Chromebooks for the same sort of tasks. I was an early adopted of Google and Chromebooks, but I never just had a Chromebook, always a more powerful laptop to run alongside it for heavier work. But just to pick up and quickly email or check the bank account, can't beat a Chromebook.

Correct tool for the correct job. Don't need a £4000 laptop (Mac or other) if all you do is surf the web and watch netflix.
 
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I thought that I'd update this. I have a Neo and thought I'd pass along my own thoughts about it.

Everything runs on it that I have so far tried - Photo Mechanic 6, DXO 8, Affinity Photo 2 and everything else you'd expect to be working and they all seem to work just fine.

The image on the Neo is the same as is on my Mac Mini M4 Pro, restored from a Time Machine backup - albeit a load of the applications and other clutter that I have no intention of ever using on the Neo have been removed. Out of a 500Gb SSD I have about 100Gb remaining free but could certainly delete a load more and use removable media (I have a redundant x9).

It is not as fast as my Mac mini but never expected it to be. I had a day out in Stratford on Monday and took a shade under 2Gb of pictures from my crop Nikon - a NEF (RAW) file is just over 14Mb and they load up and are usable in PhotoMechanical 6, DXO 8 and Affinity Photo with all three apps open at the same time and each is very usable.

I think for the money it is very acceptable. I am considering moving along my iPad M2 Air as it is going to be used less and less over time.

Maybe not what you want or need but it is a keeper for me right now.
 
myotis said:
Most of the reviews I've seen are by Mac users, but the reviews from people who review Windows and Mac machines are universally suggesting there is nothing from the Windows world (or Chrome) that can compete with the Neo at this price (at the moment).
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I think it depends on what you're looking for. Some of the reviewers don't look very hard.

For Neo money in the Windows world I'd expect an OLED touch screen and pen plus a decent Ryzen or Core Ultra, ... and more RAM and storage

It wouldn't have the Neo's battery life. It would have a decent case and keyboard - but not necessarily better or worse. And more connectivity.

So ....... to me the Neo is a £459 laptop. To me the Air is a £699 laptop that really needs a touch screen and an optional pen.
 
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Dryce said:
I think it depends on what you're locking for. Some of the reviewers don't look very hard.

For Neo money in the Windows world I'd expect an OLED touch screen and pen plus a decent Ryzen or Core Ultra,

It wouldn't have the Neo's battery life. It would have a decent case and keyboard - but not necessarily better or worse. And more connectivity.

So ....... to me the Neo is a £459 laptop. To me the Air is a £699 laptop that really needs a touch screen and an optional pen.
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I defer to your greater knowledge as I have not been looking for a Windows laptop for a good number of years. We use Dell laptops at work and both the construction of the case and quality of screen, to my eyes, looks far superior on the Neo. I suspect the Dell laptops cost much more.

If there is one bit of connectivity that is missing, then the lack of an SD slot does irk, but then I needed an adapter for my Mac Mini so that was of no additional cost. I'll happily forgo that irk and enjoy this for what it is.
 
Dryce said:
I think it depends on what you're looking for. Some of the reviewers don't look very hard.

For Neo money in the Windows world I'd expect an OLED touch screen and pen plus a decent Ryzen or Core Ultra, ... and more RAM and storage

It wouldn't have the Neo's battery life. It would have a decent case and keyboard - but not necessarily better or worse. And more connectivity.

So ....... to me the Neo is a £459 laptop. To me the Air is a £699 laptop that really needs a touch screen and an optional pen.
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I have no opinion on the matter, but agree it will depend on what you are looking for. Certainly, there is not much point in looking for a touch screen on a Mac.
 
myotis said:
Certainly, there is not much point in looking for a touch screen on a Mac.
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It's not as if they don't know how to incorporate them into products and make them work well ..... :facepalm:

I suspect that Apple have an internal divide between the iPad Pro and the Macbook lines that means that they must be differentiated.

The Neo is an interesting product because it causes an even greater overlap with the iPad Pros for those who might choose one over the other.
 
I see the iPad and this Neo very different - and I have both. The keyboard is a major improvement over the onscreen tapping and whilst I did consider buying a Magic Keyboard rather than the Neo it is not the same.
 
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