Why are people buying electric cars?

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AndrewFlannigan said:
OK, I'll offer you a deal: you stop bigging up electric cars and I'll stop pointing out how the British government is bribing a tiny minority with other tax payer's money.
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Where have you seen me "big up" electric cars? I've never had one and don't want one. Sure, a small EV will be great for my Mrs, 20 mile round trip for work 4 days a week and not much else (her 2011 Mini has less than 35k on the clock), but I can't see us buying one in the near future. But, we are in an EV revolution, just like all those years we had a horse & cart, them the IC engine arrived. Change happens, and on paper it looks like it's for the better. So I can see why governments would incentivise change. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
 
Jelster said:
Where have you seen me "big up" electric cars? I've never had one and don't want one. Sure, a small EV will be great for my Mrs, 20 mile round trip for work 4 days a week and not much else (her 2011 Mini has less than 35k on the clock), but I can't see us buying one in the near future. But, we are in an EV revolution, just like all those years we had a horse & cart, them the IC engine arrived. Change happens, and on paper it looks like it's for the better. So I can see why governments would incentivise change. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
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we are very much in an EV revolution the speed of ptogress and tech is mind blowing.
the one thing i am looking forward to is bikes and scooters in the UK as well.
 
ancient_mariner said:
I tend to think in terms of the trade-off between fuel usage and time for longer journeys, and also how bearable it is to be sat in a car moving relatively slowly for many hours. For our journey across France I'll normally run at 125 or 130kph on the autoroute as an acceptable balance between economy and time. The last 2 hours are on smaller country roads, and the limit moves around between 80 and 100kph except in villages.

As for diesel economy, they need a different technique to petrol, which can also vary between manufacturers too. I've been driving diesels for about 30 years now, and have sometimes needed brute economy above all else. Most economical was a Peugeot 307 SW that would do about 70mpg cruising at 65-70mph between Oxfordshire and Fleet in Hampshire.
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lindsay said:
I've driven various diesels for a good few years now. I hired a Moneo 2l estate once and for an easy 55mpg from it by driving between 50-65mph on the route between Salisbury and Exeter, mainly dual carriageway at times of low traffic. My Mazda 6 2.2l estate delivers 42mpg urban and uptown 60mpg on long runs if I hold it to slightly under 70mph on fast roads and just under the limits on other roads. However my past Disco's rarely did better than the book 27mpg, often worse, and my VW 2l Transporter camper van does about 27 urban and no better than about 33 on longer A road journeys. Weight, tyres, driving style especially momentum management, are all factors. I generally use gears to slow down as much as possible even on automatics, letting speed decay naturally, if I can.
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Certainly one benefit I have found with diesels is that accelerating hard seems to be far less aggresive on fuel consumption compared to petrols (even worse with EV). The BMW 330d I had was quite clever in that when in ECO mode and you were coasting it would disengage the transmission to have improve economy. I did a test on the M74 and set the cruise control to 55mph and I managed to get 66mpg (on the computer that is). That's pretty impressive engineering considering it was a 5.1 second 3 litre six cylinder engine with AWD.

My current petrol car can do about 36mpg on the motorway if coasting and driving with care. Put the boot down and it will drop like a stone to low 20's and sometimes even less. At the moment with the current prices, that's quite painful haha

Re. the paceometers, economy aside it could be a good way to discourage speeding at higher speeds with those who overestimate going faster actually achieves with journey time.
 
Mr Bump said:
we are very much in an EV revolution the speed of ptogress and tech is mind blowing.
the one thing i am looking forward to is bikes and scooters in the UK as well.
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I would agree that the pace of tech has been impressive and I think the next step with battery technology will be the big one. An electric bike or scooter would be ideal for me and all my short trips, but the one problem I have would be keeping it safe at my destinations.
 
Do agree that electric motorbikes would be fun and perfect for commuting but I just couldn’t bring myself to swap any of my petrol bikes for one
Probably I’m old fashioned and irrational but a bike has to have an engine an electric bike has no soul
Nothing against electric cars or anyone who does get an electric bike :)
 
Jelster said:
Where have you seen me "big up" electric cars?
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It was a general statement about anyone who supports the current approach to forcing these vehicles on the rest of us.
Jelster said:
But, we are in an EV revolution, just like all those years we had a horse & cart, them the IC engine arrived. Change happens, and on paper it looks like it's for the better. So I can see why governments would incentivise change.
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Change should happen by the will of the majority and not at the expense of the majority for the benefit of the minority
Jelster said:
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's wrong.
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...and just because you or anyone else likes it, doesn't mean that it's right.

I have no problem with people having electric cars but I have a big problem with them cheating their fellow road users. If and when all electric car drivers have to pay the full cost of their purchase and provide the same level of contribution to road construction and maintenance as well as the same amount of VAT, I shall have no problem with them.

Until then, they look like a bunch of cheats and freeloaders to me.
 
LCPete said:
Do agree that electric motorbikes would be fun and perfect for commuting but I just couldn’t bring myself to swap any of my petrol bikes for one
Probably I’m old fashioned and irrational but a bike has to have an engine an electric bike has no soul
Nothing against electric cars or anyone who does get an electric bike :)
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kinda would agree but recently in GC i rode an electric motocross mate and it was wild, all the power no messing with gears, huge torque.
my honest answer more fun that the petrol version and i can happily leave the noise behind
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It was a general statement about anyone who supports the current approach to forcing these vehicles on the rest of us.

Change should happen by the will of the majority and not at the expense of the majority for the benefit of the minority

...and just because you or anyone else likes it, doesn't mean that it's right.

I have no problem with people having electric cars but I have a big problem with them cheating their fellow road users. If and when all electric car drivers have to pay the full cost of their purchase and provide the same level of contribution to road construction and maintenance as well as the same amount of VAT, I shall have no problem with them.

Until then, they look like a bunch of cheats and freeloaders to me.
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Same argument can be used for many things - heat pumps, the old (or maybe current I dont know) government scrape scheme for old cars, people who heat homes with oil...
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It was a general statement about anyone who supports the current approach to forcing these vehicles on the rest of us.

Change should happen by the will of the majority and not at the expense of the majority for the benefit of the minority

...and just because you or anyone else likes it, doesn't mean that it's right.

I have no problem with people having electric cars but I have a big problem with them cheating their fellow road users. If and when all electric car drivers have to pay the full cost of their purchase and provide the same level of contribution to road construction and maintenance as well as the same amount of VAT, I shall have no problem with them.

Until then, they look like a bunch of cheats and freeloaders to me.
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There are a huge number of anomalies in the UK tax system in general and specifically around road tax and fuel duty.
There used to be few diesel cars but the government thought they used less fuel so encouraged them and diesel was cheaper than petrol.
Then they introduced catalysts on vehicles to reduce toxic nitrous compounds without understanding that in fact the catalytic converters are hugely costly and very inefficient until they achieve working temperature. Not to mention that in cold climates they produce even more noxious gases and choke the engines so the engines use more fuel so more emissions.
Then the government decided the lead need to come out of petrol so more encouragement to go diesel.
Then they found that there were particulates in the exhaust gasses so they reversed out of their decision and increased diesel prices.
Now we have electric cars which are a good idea until you consider the toxicity of the materials used in the battery manufacture. Also I am unsure about the safety angle with respect to somebody in a crash situation or some DIYer working at home on the battery.

The future possibilities are hydrogen cells that produce electricity or to convert the current ICEs to run on hydrogen.
Hydrogen is explosive if mishandled so this brings its own dangers.

What I will say is that these decisions are better left in the hands of experts rather that the fools and idiots we seem to elect to parliament or other high office.
 
jknights said:
Snip- Now we have electric cars which are a good idea until you consider the toxicity of the materials used in the battery manufacture. Also I am unsure about the safety angle with respect to somebody in a crash situation or some DIYer working at home on the battery.

The future possibilities are hydrogen cells that produce electricity or to convert the current ICEs to run on hydrogen.
Hydrogen is explosive if mishandled so this brings its own dangers.

What I will say is that these decisions are better left in the hands of experts rather that the fools and idiots we seem to elect to parliament or other high office.
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Essentially you have decided to dislike some things without reasoning them out.

Your average ice car is full of toxic materials. EV batteries have toxic materials for sure but far less today than even 10 years ago and the amount is dropping with each itterration. The phone/laptop/computer and a host of other items you use every day contain toxic materials.

Dumb is going to dumb regardless, a dumb DIY mechanic is in as much danger fixing a petrol car as an EV.

Hydrogen is clean burning, but the hydrogen manufacturing process most certainly is not clean, nor is it cheap.

It's just possible that the fools and idiots have not done as badly as you fear.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Change should happen by the will of the majority and not at the expense of the majority for the benefit of the minority
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But then you liked the comment that included this:
jknights said:
What I will say is that these decisions are better left in the hands of experts rather that the fools and idiots we seem to elect to parliament or other high office.
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At the moment decisions are being skewed by the minority. A very good example is the gaslighting over Climate Change. It is not in the interests of billionaires to say that our economy is killing our world. So they obfuscate and lie and produce squirrels for people to chase.

Some people believe the lies of the billionaires…
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It was a general statement about anyone who supports the current approach to forcing these vehicles on the rest of us.

Change should happen by the will of the majority and not at the expense of the majority for the benefit of the minority

...and just because you or anyone else likes it, doesn't mean that it's right.

I have no problem with people having electric cars but I have a big problem with them cheating their fellow road users. If and when all electric car drivers have to pay the full cost of their purchase and provide the same level of contribution to road construction and maintenance as well as the same amount of VAT, I shall have no problem with them.

Until then, they look like a bunch of cheats and freeloaders to me.
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People can argue all they like about EVs but the facts are that oil has a limited lifespan, there is a strong case for alternative methods for transport (be it electric, hydrogen or something else). The UK will have to follow what the rest of the world do - we cant have a Betamax v VHS scenario where the world go electric and we try to do hydrogen by ourselves. We dont have a mainstream car industry and will be a small player compared to the likes of the EU, US, China etc... If Kia, Tesla and VW for example decide that electric is the way forward we have to go along with it.

And change often happens by governments dictating things often against the will of the people (initially). Am sure that many things today would not be there if the will of the majority had been stuck to
 
Very much so. And how would AndrewF know if the will of the majority had been skewed by a few billionaires…?
 
Or to look at it another way: since China is producing and exporting more cars than anyone else, and they are in the main (if not exclusively) electric, then the Supply side of the economics is a done deal. We will be mainly if not exclusively EV within the next 20 years or so because the Chinese will control the market for new cars. European manufacturers are just trying to hold on to some slice of market. Us old fogeys are p*****g in the wind against this, but since most of us will have stopped buying cars by then, our opinion is worthless.
 
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Pound Coin said:
Very much so. And how would AndrewF know if the will of the majority had been skewed by a few billionaires…?
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Easy to get rid of a few billionaires. Forbes produce a rich list!
 
Steep said:
Essentially you have decided to dislike some things without reasoning them out.

Your average ice car is full of toxic materials. EV batteries have toxic materials for sure but far less today than even 10 years ago and the amount is dropping with each itterration. The phone/laptop/computer and a host of other items you use every day contain toxic materials.

Dumb is going to dumb regardless, a dumb DIY mechanic is in as much danger fixing a petrol car as an EV.

Hydrogen is clean burning, but the hydrogen manufacturing process most certainly is not clean, nor is it cheap.

It's just possible that the fools and idiots have not done as badly as you fear.
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It is not a question of reasoning it out.....
1. The majorities tend to get stuff wrong as they dont have all the information.
2. Vested interests and rich lobbies will sway the masses or politicians.
3. It is almost impossible to convince people by good rationale as they are mostly emotionally vested in a situation.
4. Logic does not convince many only those who are open minded enough to admit that their initial thoughts are ill conceived, illogical or formed before the full weight of facts were presented.

Agree there are dumb mechanics but there are also dumb electricians. I would rather work out what a dumb mechanic has done than a dumb electrician. High voltage DC is lethal but so are badly maintained mechanicals! Ever had a 440v AC blast..... I have and it is most unpleasant. Still alive from my Renault 5 Challenge efforts with no bad side effects the washing machine could not handle!

Agree with you that currently hydrogen is not only dangerous but horribly expensive to produce and store.

No I will argue that the fools and idiots do not have a clue. You and I will die on that hill as there are too many fools and idiots!
 
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jknights said:
It is not a question of reasoning it out.....
1. The majorities tend to get stuff wrong as they dont have all the information.
2. Vested interests and rich lobbies will sway the masses or politicians.
3. It is almost impossible to convince people by good rationale as they are mostly emotionally vested in a situation.
4. Logic does not convince many only those who are open minded enough to admit that their initial thoughts are ill conceived, illogical or formed before the full weight of facts were presented.

Agree there are dumb mechanics but there are also dumb electricians. I would rather work out what a dumb mechanic has done than a dumb electrician. High voltage DC is lethal but so are badly maintained mechanicals! Ever had a 440v AC blast..... I have and it is most unpleasant. Still alive from my Renault 5 Challenge efforts with no bad side effects the washing machine could not handle!

Agree with you that currently hydrogen is not only dangerous but horribly expensive to produce and store.

No I will argue that the fools and idiots do not have a clue. You and I will die on that hill as there are too many fools and idiots!
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Re 440v AC shock, you were lucky you were not working on an EV, it would have been DC and you'd most surely not have survived.
 
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