Youngsters of today - misunderstood or missing a slap?

DiddyDave

DiddyDave

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There's been a fair bit of commentary lately on youths nicking cars etc. and rolling over bonnets before running off

Many have suggested they weren't hit hard enough if they could still run :thumbs:, a couple that they simply needed a hug, cup of tea and a good 'talking to' :nono:

So which is it?

Do we not nurture our young well enough these days? Is a good slap really not a useful tool in the learning process of what's Right & Wrong? Or should we all agree to just kiss & hug the wee hoodies who've just smashed your car up for the 'fun' of it as misunderstood youth of today? :thinking::thinking::thinking:

If you were young once... did a slap come your way? :bat: Did it destroy your sense of self and send you on a path of violent destruction, or did you learn from it?
 
:popcorn: :D
 
I can see this one running for a while.
As a yoof I certainly got a slap if was being a little wayward, however would never have dreamt about smashing up a car etc. Was bought up to respect others which seem's to be the bit that's missing these days. :D

Grew up fine with no issues so a slap don't hurt.(other than at the time!)
 
"hug a hoody" now there's a damned good idea for a government initiative :rules:

The poor little disadvantaged souls obviously had a deprived child-hood and should be loved and cherrished after they smash up my car after all its only an object, that I bought with money that I had left over and didn't really need. No problem thats why I bought it so the poor dears could have a little entertainment.

to be honest I blame my boss really for paying me enough so that I could buy the car in the first place.
If he was a skin-flint I couldn't have scraped together enough to buy the said car and the temptaion to destroy it would have been removed.
So Yeah Hug a hoody today
 
rather than the cowards way out I'll reply ;)

Personally I'd say it's a case of lacking respect, possibly/probably due to bad parenting. Maybe it's not the kids who are missing a slap..........
 
I see where you're coming from Chris... it's all the fault of our Capitalist society encouraging asset ownership at the expense of spreading 'love'

Perhaps if you left the keys in your car the hoodies' could enjoy it, derive an air of aspiration, and get a good job to buy their own - you just need to put a note in it saying "Please bring it back when you're done"

Sorted?
 
Im not saying theyre missing a slap, even though some of them are :p

The main problem in this country today, is down to the parents.

We have children who will think nothing of stamping on someones head in a fight after theyve knocked them to the ground, we have children who will shoot each other to prove a point, or for "respect".
We have kids who mug old ladies, or who think nothing of knocking a pensioner to the ground, and kicking him in order to steal a bag of chips.

Why?
Parents lack of instilling a moral fibre into their children.
Children rebel against discipline, and it's all well and good saying they need a slap (as I know many of them do), but discipline isn't worth a hoot if it isn't backed up by an educational approach.

I was rarely smacked as a child. Why? Because I didn't really need to be.

You would never find me mugging old ladies, or stamping on someones head. Why? Because my mother taught me from a young age about respecting other people, and more importantly thinking of other peoples feelings.
I won't steal someone's hard earned wages, because I know they would be upset and the consequences it would have for them...therefore on that basis I know it's wrong.

If parents actually taught their children to think of other people and other peoples feelings from a young age, then a million and one problems of 'todays society' wouldn't be around at all.

Instead, we get tarted up slappers pushing in, infront of people, taking things without a thought for others, all the while instilling into children this "Me me me" attitude. It's that bolshy selfish attitude that breeds bullies too.

I'll stay on here on my soapbox thanks :D
 
I think the old saying goes "spare the rod, spoil the child" and to a point I think it's fairly accurate.

I think discipline is sorely lacking today, and I'm not just talking about the younger teenagers/children in hoodies but their prents as well.

When the government etc started interfering in how discipline was meted out and people became too scared to discipline their own children, they made a rod for their own back.

These children now have children of their own and because they didnt receive any discipline, their kids dont either and thus begins the downward spiral.

However, I do believe it can be taken too far...

I was brought up in a fairly violent manner which ended up with me being removed from my home at around 7 or 8 years old and placed in care, where I remained for the best part of 12 years, with the occasional return home only to end up back in a home again.

However although my mum may have overstepped the mark in how she disciplined me (and in a lot of occasions her reasons were sketchy at best), the effect that was acheived was that I certainly had a healthy repect for what was right and wrong and that punishment swiftly followed any "crime" I may commited.

I'm not suggesting that any parent should beat their child until he ends up in hospital, but even with my background, I do believe that discipline and boundaries are absolutely, 100% necessary for a childs proper development.
 
Cobra said:
"hug a hoody" now there's a damned good idea for a government initiative :rules:

The poor little disadvantaged souls obviously had a deprived child-hood and should be loved and cherrished after they smash up my car after all its only an object, that I bought with money that I had left over and didn't really need. No problem thats why I bought it so the poor dears could have a little entertainment.

to be honest I blame my boss really for paying me enough so that I could buy the car in the first place.
If he was a skin-flint I couldn't have scraped together enough to buy the said car and the temptaion to destroy it would have been removed.
So Yeah Hug a hoody today
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I couldn't agree more...give them a big hug.....























...so that they can't get away while your slapping them:boxer:
 
It stems back a long way. The kids of the late 60's were part of the education experiment which relaxed discipline and gave them room to vent opinions. They grew up to be useless as parents. They then had kids, who had lousy role models, so had no idea how to be parents themselves. So now, we have parents who have no idea how to parent, grandparents who were lousy parents too and great grandparents who......well you get the idea.

It's all the educationalists fault........et al.
 
DiddyDave said:
Perhaps if you left the keys in your car the hoodies' could enjoy it
Sorted?
Click to expand...

A friend of mine was fed up of replacing his car door locks after umpteen breakins, so he left it unlocked with nothing left inside.
Guess what happened next? :thinking:
Little b******s smashed the drivers side window!
Too thick to try the door first :cuckoo:
Bless em
 
Eric Mc said:
I couldn't agree more...give them a big hug.....

...so that they can't get away while your slapping them:boxer:
Click to expand...

:D
I did wonder after I hit the send button if I would get slated but I am glad to see I am not the only one being ironic.................... :D
 
I find that with my two boys whilst at home theres a distinct a lack of respect, but outside of the house they are polite and very respectful to our friends, always get praise etc, the same as I can praise 99% of our friends kids. Strange isn't it, at home kids seem to be barstewards yet away from home they are angels.
I guess I am lucky and don't have major behaviour problems.
I would bring back the birch and National service.
Just my thoughts and not of the missus's :)

ps Yep theres no respect anymore.
 
photostar_1 said:
It stems back a long way. The kids of the late 60's were part of the education experiment which relaxed discipline and gave them room to vent opinions. They grew up to be useless as parents. They then had kids, who had lousy role models, so had no idea how to be parents themselves. So now, we have parents who have no idea how to parent, grandparents who were lousy parents too and great grandparents who......well you get the idea.

It's all the educationalists fault........et al.
Click to expand...

Upto a point I agree with you PS I was edumacated in the late '60's-early '70's
I can see, in retrospect where "things started to go wrong"
I will admit that I got caned at skool ONCE I still remember why I got it and never ever contemplated doing that same thing ever again.
There are far too many bleeding hearts trying to protect "our" children from a clip around the ear to not allowing them to play "conkers ( won't be long now :D) or throwing snowballs in case someone gets hurt. Well F'k me!
"someone" is getting hurt and its the self same B'std's that are doing the hurting, the one's that were "protected" from "harm " (read discipline) in the home and at school!



[/soap box]
 
<rant>

Hmmm... Do I count as a youth myself??? I'm 25, but I certainly have a respect for my elders, parents and those in authority (including the old bill, apart from when they're nicking the easy target motorists, but thats a different topic altogether). Did my parents smack me as a child? Probably, but it never did me any harm.

Even at my age I notice a distinct difference between the majority of "my generation" and the generation below me. I've had kids as young as 11/12 shouting abuse at me for no good reason, I've seen the fire brigade get rocks etc thrown at their appliances, and even paramedics attacked!

I've only ever one risen to the abuse thrown at me, when my OH was with me and they were shouting at her. I walked over to them and asked them what their problem was. Their reply.. Some four letter expletives. A little threat did no harm, and they apologised :D

The world has gone mad, yet the PC brigade seem to think that kids need protection! Madness, some of these little b*****ds need a good slap, to knock some sense into them.

I'm not saying for a minute that everyone from any generation are angels, but most of them are aware of the difference between right and wrong.

There is a distinct lack of morals in the younger generation (those below me), it starts at home, continues through school (where teachers are too afraid to do anything in case they lose their jobs / lives, not really their fault).

</rant>

:D
 
They are not all bad however.......I currently have four of the nicest 20+ yr olds living in my home with us and you couldn't wish to meet nicer lads. Courteous and kind to me ( maybe 'cos I'm feeding them :lol:) and super to have around. I love them all to bits!!
 
There are lots of reasons, but I think Photostar_1 hit the point where it all started to go really wrong. The bad parent problem passing a lack of values and respect on to their kids was always there, but it magnified enormously from the 60's onwards.

Add to that Blair's Britain where nobody says "Hey you can't do that!" - Equal Opportunities- a noble concept which in practice has come to be interpreted as anyone is entitled to the job whether they're actually capable or not, and you can see why we're in the state we are. ;)
 
I was beaten as a youngster IF I did something to deserve it, I can look back and say that it hasn't done me any harm.

I have a younger brother who grew up spouting crap like " i'm calling childline" and "i'll go to the social services" everytime he didn't get what he wanted or was caught doing something wrong.

Bring back national service, and why not make the errant no good minority do the hard labour in return for their benifits, road cleaning etc

If the people growing up witnessed what they'd get if they chose that path, they might think twice.
 
Not so much "missing a slap" ... :thinking: ... as missing a brain cell or three imgo ... :shrug: ... and that's probably in their genes mostly ... :suspect:




:p
 
the complete lack of disapline these days is the problem, parents cant displine their kids (a slap when a kid does something wrong doesnt do any harm (its a slap when not required thats the problem)). teachers cant control classes these days, same with the police etc, so kids grow up not knowing the definite limits of what is right and wrong...
 
I sense bait being dangled in front of me, and probably should leave this well alone.

I will, however, offer a response which I hope will be measured.

I dared to suggest that deliberatley trying to run over children is not a nice thing to do, despite what they may have done. On reflection, my response was probably a bit pompous, and didn't reflect the fact that the original comments were a bit tongue in cheek. So apologies if I offended anyone.

I realise that emotions run high when someone has been damaging or stealing your property, and that a desire to do something to the perpetrators is quite natural. Some years ago I found that someone had thrown a brick through my car window, and it is probably good that I did not find the perpetrator as I would have been very tempted to get violent.

I don't recall defending the kids who stole cars, or suggesting that they need a hug, but my comments seem to have been portrayed this way. I do, however, consider that trying to run them over is a disproportionate response (yes I do understand the anger that may lead to such feelings, but is not self control a marker of a civilised response, which differentiates most of us from those criminals?).

As for the more general points about discipline of young people, I could not agree more that this is very necessary in the development of children. Since when did discipline equate to violence? There is certainly a place for physical chastisement, but this is just one factor in disciplining a child, and in my view one of the least effective. If we, as adults, demonstrate to our children that we can only exert control and discipline by using violence, what message does that give them? As Marcel says, instilling respect for others if the key thing.

As for the "youth of today" thread... well this has been heard for any many years. I certainly remember it being said when I was a kid, and in fact you will find it all through history, right back to Roman times.



Incidentally isn't it funny how some people have a great respect for the law, except when it come to motoring offences?
 
whitewash said:
........... teachers cant control classes these days, same with the police etc, so kids grow up not knowing the definite limits of what is right and wrong...
Click to expand...

TBH I think that mostly "they" do know the differance between "right and wrong" its just that they know their "rights" more and therefore "know" that they can't be touched! ( literally)
 
Why the frigg is it always the teachers fault!!!!

They see the children for at most 6 hours a day - they've already had 4 or 5 years of 'parenting' before they get to school. There is such a limit to what teachers can achieve in terms of teaching respect, right and wrong, manners etc.

Being taught to say 'thank you' should be done at home! being taught to read it and spell it should be done at school!

educationalist can do there best to improve behaviour - but unless it's backed up at home it's useless.
 
MichaelPlace said:
Why the frigg is it always the teachers fault!!!!

They see the children for at most 6 hours a day - they've already had 4 or 5 years of 'parenting' before they get to school. There is such a limit to what teachers can achieve in terms of teaching respect, right and wrong, manners etc.

Being taught to say 'thank you' should be done at home! being taught to read it and spell it should be done at school!

educationalist can do there best to improve behaviour - but unless it's backed up at home it's useless.
Click to expand...

Well who else can the wayward parents blame?, certainly not themselves
I know that mostly the teachers hands are tied on what they can and can't do. So its easier to shout at the teachers as they are close at hand, than grabbing the education secretary by the balls and given them a good shake ( ok I know she doesn't have any :lol: )
 
I've said this on these forums before, youngsters need to know the limits. They will naturally push the envelope to see how far they can go but in reality they want to know that there is a line that cannot be crossed, when that line does not exist or is not enforced is when kids go bad.
 
What we see today is the result of liberalism in the sixties, the children of that decade had children and their children are having children now and each generation knows less than the last about how to keep kids in line. They are hampered by rules that get progressivaly more complex as they are found not to be working. Rules made up by people who's main aim is not to get sued, not to be held responsible.
 
whitewash said:
Teachers cant control classes these days, same with the police etc, so kids grow up not knowing the definite limits of what is right and wrong...
Click to expand...

Whitewash,

I dare you to be a teacher for a day with the kids at present. You'd be out of the school like a shot. My missus teaches maths at secondary level and some of the abuse she recieves is unbelievable. A kid can tell you to **** off, walk out of the lesson and you cannot even touch them. If I gave abuse back in the mid 80's, I would have been dragged to the head of year and been given a severe reprimanding/detention etc. Even worse was the thought of what happens when the letter got home. The kids in school know they can't be touched and if you try, you could face problems from the education authority and even a civil lawsuit from the parents because they've all seen the 'no win - no fee' adverts.

Someone else mentioned Childline in this post. I think that although Esther Rantzen was targetting abuse in the home which I agree is inhuman, she started the ball rolling on the 'childs rights' bill.

This is why the kids know exactly how far they can go and they know you can't give them a clip round the ear. They can wind you up and laugh in your face. You try and grab hold of them and you're done for assault :cuckoo:

I help out at my local cricket club and there were some scallies down one Friday night. The coaching for the youngsters finished at 9pm and the scallies were messing around with the sidecreens, trying to tip them over. A couple of us blokes went out from the clubhouse to ask them to leave them alone and go somewhere else. One lad was right in my face giving all the 'make me then, bovvered' comments. I could have decked him on the spot but I put my hands behind my back to stop any chance of this happening.

After 10 mins of threats, abuse, cans being thrown at us etc, they moved on telling us where to go and giving the 'bird' from the safe haven of 40 yards.
 
Plenty of interesting debate and opinions.

From personal perspective, I wasn't missing an occasional 'slap' as a youngster...and yes, I do mean a slap acorss the legs, not a beating. I also went to school in the last couple of years of corporal punishment [in state schools, it stopped when I was 12-13 ish], and even in the years till i left school at 18 i saw a marked decline in the behaviour of a very small but noisy minority of my peers.

Since then I have had two kids of my own, both now teenagers, and both totally different despite pretty much identical upbringings. The older one is nearly 16, hates school [despite being incredibly intelligent], thinks she is totally worldy and world wise, cheeky, cocky and frankly, bloody hard work. In her defence, she has pushed every single boundary she was ever set, yet in her own strange way does have her own lines over which she won't cross. She naturally migrates to the lowest she can find despite our curent 'middle class' lifestye/environment [you wanna see some of the grunting moronic hoodies that have [dis]graced our doorstep], yet she has walked away when they stepped beyond what she considers acceptable.

Second one is 13 [and a half, as she frequently reminds me] and is the sweetest, friendliest kid you could want to meet. Adored by her peers and teachers alike, she wouldn't know 'attitude' if it jumped up and smacked her in the face. {i dread she changes to much as teenage pressures kick in, but she shows no signs of it yet, unlike her sister who was a handful from a toddler]

Both got a slap on the legs or back of hand occasionally as youngsters, and the more 'effective' punishments as they grew and became easier to reason with [groundings, removal of spends, computers, etc] Both have made to play out with their friends and not spend hours in front of game consoles or TV's

Nature or nurture? Both IMO! yes, parental behaviour makes a huge difference, and yes, lack of discipline and respect have given us the Britain we have today, but the simple fact is, that every kid is different, and require different approaches, their genetic make up dictates that...the problem is, parenting doesn't come with a manual, they dont hand you the correct user guide for your type of baby in the maternity ward. parenting is bloody hard work and like everyone else I despise parents where negligence is obvious [the McCanns anyone?] especially among the so called educated, and even in the less well educated, because common sense costs nothing. However, I think to blame it squarely on the parents doesn't take individual circumstances into account, and as such, demonstrates as much ignorance as the eejits who think its fine that their 11 yr old is still wondering the streets at 11pm or that leaving 3 very young kids alone while they go off to dine is not a problem.
 
WOW ladylens thought you had stole my kids then :D your oldest sounds a bit like my oldest but think mine is a bit more extreme.

To be fair you cant always blame the parents or teachers. Society has changed over last 50 years, faster than ever before, kids are bombarded with adverts, films, music all promoting do your own 'thing' dont listen etc etc and thats exactly what they do.

How do you keep them quiet, well after an argument with my own daughter she was looking for a full scale argument on how i was wrong not buying her another pair of expensive trainers ... the ones all girls really need... i just replied 'i hope you have a daughter just like 'YOU' ' about a week later she decided she didnt want kids...... emmmm wonder why :D
 
Nurture - consider this for a laugh (NOT)

A few years ago I had more time on my hands and felt the urge to help our community by being a Special Constable, one particular night patrol stands out in my mind here...

Cruising round a rough estate locally one hot summer night, about midnight, we pulled up for a few seconds outside a row of terrace houses with no front garden, hence the front door was only some 10 ft away. In said door sat a chap having a smoke, alongside him a very young girl in a nightdress who can't have been more than 4 (yep - midnight)

I gave a cheery wave to the girl and 'Hi' to the chap - who then turned to his daughter saying "What do we say to the filfth?", whereupon the little sweet-looking girl shouted "Fk off B'stards" and they both laughed loudly

What hope have you got with such, not uncommon, parenting?
 
Shorn said:
I find that with my two boys whilst at home theres a distinct a lack of respect, but outside of the house they are polite and very respectful to our friends, always get praise etc, the same as I can praise 99% of our friends kids. Strange isn't it, at home kids seem to be barstewards yet away from home they are angels.
I guess I am lucky and don't have major behaviour problems.
I would bring back the birch and National service.
Just my thoughts and not of the missus's :)

ps Yep theres no respect anymore.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, my two boys may be a bit rude etc indoors but when they are out they would never ever disrespect an old person (they love them to be honest.. and love their grandparents and go to see them with no prompting from us).

I think they need somewhere to vent off and Id rather it was at home than away to be honest.

Still think a stint at national service wouldve done both of them good... as for all teenage boys. :thumbs:
 
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