Would you choose Pigment or Dye ink

alexam

alexam

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Malcolm
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I'm looking at top end printers - Canon 9500 Mk II and Epson R2880, both of which are pigment inks.

Am I making a mistake and should I be looking at others that are Dye inks?

Your reasons would be appreciated together with any recommendations.
 
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It would help to know what you are printing, and how often (the 9000 is the dye version of the 9500)
I have the 9500 and am very pleased with it.
 
dye inks don't last as long as pigment but pigment tends not to look glossy.
 
coldpenguin said:
It would help to know what you are printing, and how often (the 9000 is the dye version of the 9500)
I have the 9500 and am very pleased with it.
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I do a lot of studio work with models, rather than landscape and need quality images. I have not used pigment ink before, but am going to have demo's on the Canon 9500 Mk II and Epson R2880, or R3000 tomorrow, hopefully to then make a purchase.

I am leaning a little more towards Epson simply because of reviews and although there are bad reports on both from disgruntled Togs for various reasons, there seems to be more saying that the Epson is better?

Malcolm
 
POAH said:
dye inks don't last as long as pigment but pigment tends not to look glossy.
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I do get that impression from what I've read. Therefore, I am taking a couple of my own image prints, with the original on a stick and intend to get them printed on the two printers in order to compare. I'm not a lover of glossy prints anyway, which may help.

Malcolm
 
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I have had the Pixma 9000 ( mark 1) for a while now and never had problems with it.
I was undecided between Canon and Epson...the primary reason I went Canon was I had heard of several reports of the inks/ header clogging if left unused for any length of time without being used.
Sometimes I can go 2 months without printing an image and I have to say i have never had any issues with the inks or header with the Pixma.
To be fair i have not personally used Epson so for me to prejudge them is unfair ....My decission was simply based on other users feedback.
 
Thanks Asha,

I had heard this, but several have said as long as it's used at least once a week .... by at least printing a varied coloured text page .... then it's no problem.
 
THrowing a curve ball here but both companies printers have cartridges that are just way too small and end up costig a lot of money especially if you print a lot.

With the printer, consider buying a CIS and using third party inks like Fotospeed or Permajet inks. 10x the ink for about 2x the cost of a single cartridge.

Quality of the imnks is superb and indistinguishable from the originals.

Better still buy a printer with decent sized cartridges like the Epson R3800. Over the long term you will save a lot of money. The printer might sound expensive but the ink alone is about half the price of the total cost!



I have an Epson R2400 and love it. Quality is superb. I use the Fotospeed Quill inkflow CIS.

Once you start printing you will realise that a 13ml cartridge is just too small.

The R3000 bridges the gap a little but inks are still way too expensive.

If you are only doing the odd print, think seriously about just using a lab! At £1.10 for a 16x12 from DSCL that is a lot of A3 prints to firstly make up the cost of the printer - but also the cost of paper itself is more than that!!!

Nice to have yes.....
 
Hi Jim,

It has been a thought to have the bulk inks, but for now, I just want to have complete control of the photograph in my own hands, even tough the cost may be higher than it could be.

Having good camera and lenses, want to be able to produce the final result myself rather than let a lab do the job. A little like having a vintage car and letting a mechanic maintain it ................ not quite the same thing.

Anyway, today I am going for a demo and probable end up with something to keep me busy for some time.

Thanks for the input................... have a great Christmas.
Malcolm
 
I have a Canon Pro 9500 MkII and the longest its been unused between prints was 5 weeks. It worked faultlessly after this downtime and has always delivered fantastic prints. Then again, it should do. :)

The inks, on the other hand are far too expensive and do not last long enough. I produce mainly A3 prints and I'm still trying to work out an accurate cost per print, but it has got to be between £1-2 per print at least, maybe more.
 
I have the 9500 mk1 and i love the prints it does but i dare not print anything big. Every time i use it i have to change one of the 10 carts. But i got it for free....

I had the R2880 and it is excellent, i had a CIS and it was awesome but had to sell it for the cash last year.

I would get the Epson because you have the OPTION of the CIS with the Canon there is not choice as noone makes a CIS for it....

At least not one that i have found.
 
I have found Pigment inks are more liable to dry in the printhead if left to stand for a while, my 9500 was stood up for 8 weeks and got blocked so bad the head cleaning wouldn't clear it, luckily canon put a new head in under warranty, I have always used canon but was given an R1800 epson the other day and have to say that although an old model I am very impressed with, so much so that I doubt I would buy another canon printer, also the 9500 is pretty limited in compatible ink suppliers and cis or refillable cartridges available, epson's generally seem more widely supported in that area.
Although I have heard lots of moans about how much ink an epson wastes, my 9500 was scary at wasting ink, I would hope they have changed it on the mk2 but everytime you open the lid it runs a cleaning cycle.
Speaking to a compatible ink supplier the other day their opinion was that canon still have a lot of catching up to do in the A3 size pigment ink printer department.
On a personal note I much prefer the look of pigment over dye
 
alexam said:
Hi Jim,

It has been a thought to have the bulk inks, but for now, I just want to have complete control of the photograph in my own hands, even tough the cost may be higher than it could be.

Having good camera and lenses, want to be able to produce the final result myself rather than let a lab do the job. A little like having a vintage car and letting a mechanic maintain it ................ not quite the same thing.

Anyway, today I am going for a demo and probable end up with something to keep me busy for some time.

Thanks for the input................... have a great Christmas.
Malcolm
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Totally understand that. :) that was why I bought one but find myself going to labs more often now.

Make sure you use the correct profles with the papers you choose. It's worth getting custom made ones.
 
Organic said:
I have a Canon Pro 9500 MkII and the longest its been unused between prints was 5 weeks. It worked faultlessly after this downtime and has always delivered fantastic prints. Then again, it should do. :)

The inks, on the other hand are far too expensive and do not last long enough. I produce mainly A3 prints and I'm still trying to work out an accurate cost per print, but it has got to be between £1-2 per print at least, maybe more.
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Thanks for the info Paul,

I took the plunge today and went for the Epson R2880. It produced excellent prints at the demo with that and the Canon 9500 Mk II, which was also good, but I wanted to move ahead after months of dithering.

Now I have a printer that should match my camera and lenses. Only time will tell.

Cheers for now. Hope you have a great Christmas and I haven't forgotten our earlier conversation and will get back to you on that in the New year as plans are in the making.

Malcolm
 
Thanks Keith & Mac,
I don't intend to use anything other than original inks. I know it costs, but quality is what I am after and using original will give more chance to keep heads clear. I also intend to print a various coloured text sheet on a weekly basis if I am not printing photographs.

Not sure if it's best to switch off or leave it on ............... anyone know?

Malcolm

Happy Christmas to all
 
Cheers again Jim, I'm at present looking at as much as I can about profiles for papers. Never bothered before as I have not done serious photo printing before. It's a whole new area of learning and very interesting. Would make a great tuition course for those who were interested. I love technical stuff on matters I am serious about.

Malcolm
 
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alexam said:
Thanks Keith & Mac,
I don't intend to use anything other than original inks. I know it costs, but quality is what I am after and using original will give more chance to keep heads clear. I also intend to print a various coloured text sheet on a weekly basis if I am not printing photographs.

Not sure if it's best to switch off or leave it on ............... anyone know?

Malcolm

Happy Christmas to all
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I leave mine on - but not sure it matters. Regards quality I could do a challenge. Send me one of your images to print (6x4 size should suffice) and I'll print with my R2400 using a fotospeed CIS and I'd bet you could not tell which was the original inks! Tried it and was very impressed with the Fotospeed inks. My clients even mention the quality of the prints! For speed though I've started to send more out to the lab - also works out cheaper :)
 
alexam said:
Not sure if it's best to switch off or leave it on ............... anyone know?
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If you are intent on only using the original ink cartridges I'd recommend you

leave it switched on. As mentioned before you only have around 13mil each

cart. A fair bit of ink is used up each time you switch on and if your paying

full price for original ink that's a lot of money wasted.

I use compatible ink (Image Specialist) and have always left my printers on.

Just my opinion but good choice on printer, the 2880 won't disappoint.
 
I have the Epson3000 and use Fotospeed compatible inks.
no problems with the compatible inks, and you can not tell the difference
to the Epson inks. The extra ink capacity is a great saving on inks as well.
This is an awesome set up as i print a lot of A3+ prints.
 
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Thanks Kevin & Jim,

so far it's been left switched on since it was first fired up yesterday, with me playing at the printing and after a few errors, I have a reasonable result with Epson papers, but ran out of A4 and just been out to get some more.

With the problem of switching from gloss to Matte ink for Matte papers, I am limiting myself to gloss/lustre papers at present, that is until I've learnt to right way to download profiles, get them into the system and try out the packs of free sample I have received from various sources.


I do like the A3 and A3+ images Dave and for my portraits it will show them off well, so will be going that way eventually, but will remain with genuine inks to help back up the 3 year warranty, (only £34.99 through Calumet on this printer), which I thought was a great deal. they also threw in a couple of sample packs of paper and are very nice to deal with.

I'll take your word for the quality Jim, you're obviously someone who likes good results, as I do.

What a great bunch of TP's you are!

Malcolm
 
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Id honestly not bother with the matt ink unless you really really really want to print on matt paper.
 
Dave P said:
I have the Epsom 3000 and use Photospeed compatible inks.
no problems with the compatible inks, and you can not tell the difference
to the Epsom inks. The extra ink capacity is a great saving on inks as well.
This is an awesome set up as i print a lot of A3+ prints.
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Hey Dave sorry to be picky but it's Epson (with an N) :) And Fotospeed (with an F) :)

But you are bang on with the comments. The Fotospeed inks are superb and the savings over the original cartridges is HUGE! It costs about £10 per cartrdge for an R2880 and you get 13ml. You can buy 125Ml bottles for £25 - A saving of about £70!

I used to be an advocate of original only buit now there is just no sense in spending so much on ink. THe only issue is having external bottles attached to the printer.

I think the Fotospeed R3000 CIS uses cartridges though? That would be better all systems I think.
 
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alexam said:
Thanks Kevin & Jim,

so far it's been left switched on since it was first fired up yesterday, with me playing at the printing and after a few errors, I have a reasonable result with Epson papers, but ran out of A4 and just been out to get some more.

With the problem of switching from gloss to Matte ink for Matte papers, I am limiting myself to gloss/lustre papers at present, that is until I've learnt to right way to download profiles, get them into the system and try out the packs of free sample I have received from various sources.


I do like the A3 and A3+ images Dave and for my portraits it will show them off well, so will be going that way eventually, but will remain with genuine inks to help back up the 3 year warranty, (only £34.99 through Calumet on this printer), which I thought was a great deal. they also threw in a couple of sample packs of paper and are very nice to deal with.

I'll take your word for the quality Jim, you're obviously someone who likes good results, as I do.

What a great bunch of TP's you are!

Malcolm
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THere are plenty of resources showing you the print settings to use and how to set it up. Just make sure you select ICM and OFF (no colour adjustment) then iun Photoshop you can select the appropriate icc profile for the paper you are using.
 
POAH said:
yeah refilable carts about £250 for the carts and 9 bottles of ink.
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It costs £212 on Amazon for 1 set of inks (26Ml per cartridge) so saving is OVER £1,000!!!
 
POAH said:
Id honestly not bother with the matt ink unless you really really really want to print on matt paper.
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All part of the learning process, which I will want to experiment with. I have seen some amazing prints on Matt paper and the Matte ink does make a great impact. Time will tell and besides which, I have all this free sample paper to use up.

Malcolm
 
I'll get there Jim, just need time and I have plenty of that now I'm retired and main interest is photography.

Malcolm
 
alexam said:
All part of the learning process, which I will want to experiment with. I have seen some amazing prints on Matt paper and the Matte ink does make a great impact. Time will tell and besides which, I have all this free sample paper to use up.

Malcolm
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You get a bit more dmax with the Matt ink but really since Matt paper is rubbish for contrast, colour gamut and sharpness you are unlikely to notice. Any of the Matt canvas's I've tried I just used photo black.

Obviously the canned profile won't work but as I make my own it's not a problem
 
POAH said:
You get a bit more dmax with the Matt ink but really since Matt paper is rubbish for contrast, colour gamut and sharpness you are unlikely to notice. Any of the Matt canvas's I've tried I just used photo black.

Obviously the canned profile won't work but as I make my own it's not a problem
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What papers have you been using? The Permajet matte papers are fantastic. Images are sharp and contrasty and colourful! They may not have the glossy contrasty finish of the lustre/gloss papers but they look (to my eyes) better. Also they are fabulous for all B&W printing amd for landscape prints.

I prefer the look of the matte to the lustre papers BUT because the paper cost is higher I generally stick to lustre paper for the work I do.

I really like Permajet Portfolio paper - lovely texture and a high quality portrait paper and not too expensive.

Some matte papers take the PhotoK ink and some don't. The profile doesn't help how the paper holds the ink. THere are also some matte prints that suit PK inks though.
 
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I've used loads of Matt papers mainly because I get them for free. It's just a fact of the way Matt papers take up the ink makes them less sharp than gloss type papers coupled with the lack of colour gamut, Dmax and contrast makes me wonder why any one would use them lol.


I've not used a paper yet that won't take up photo black, matt black in the other hand takes longer to dry on gloss papers and is not recommend at all.
 
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I'm very impressed with the look of matte papers - A dfifferent feel to them and the papers add something in a way that glossy papers dont - All down to personal preference.
 
I agree Jim. Matte papers do have a difference and some of my images look better on matte tan on gloss. I have not been a great lover of gloss, although just recently, I have used a fair bit with the new printer and been very pleased. It may be down to the printers I suppose and some people would get the wrong impression if the images they produce do not come out well.
 
only use bog standard gloss on snap shots, anything I would put up on my wall would be a fibre base type paper. plenty to choose from with very different surfaces even a semi matt ;)
 
Mistakes corrected but what is .......... buit in your post :)
 
Mistakes corrected but what is ..........[ buit] in your post :)
 
Regarding paper, For general printing I've found Harman Crystaljet Elite Luster and Gloss to be more than acceptable. However, it feels a little on the thin side (260 gsm) but the results are lovely.

Has anyone tried Canson paper? I was thinking of trying their Infinity PhotoSatin and Photogloss paper.
 
Organic said:
Regarding paper, For general printing I've found Harman Crystaljet Elite Luster and Gloss to be more than acceptable. However, it feels a little on the thin side (260 gsm) but the results are lovely.

Has anyone tried Canson paper? I was thinking of trying their Infinity PhotoSatin and Photogloss paper.
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I like the Ilford Smooth perl for that 290gsm - a really outstanding paper. I've not tried Canson papers though.
 
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