Working in manual mode

MattehCarter

MattehCarter

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Matthew
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Well, since I started photography, I've always wanted to know, how do you use manual settings? And how would I make sure the photos come out with great quality?

I am currently shooting with a Canon 450D.

Thanks
 
Manual mode means you set the aperture and shutter speed and if on manual ISO you set that as well. The camera will tell you if the exposure is correct.
 
MattehCarter said:
Well, since I started photography, I've always wanted to know, how do you use manual settings? And how would I make sure the photos come out with great quality?

I am currently shooting with a Canon 450D.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Using manual mode requires two things..
  1. An understanding of shutter speed, aperture and ISO and how to control them on your camera
  2. An understanding of how to meter the scene using either the in-camera meter or an external meter

Producing a great quality image depends how you define quality.. many a technically perfect image is aesthetically duller than the proverbial dishwater.. :lol:
 
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Currently I've not found any benefit to using full manual mode, but I'm willing to be proved wrong.

I either use Av or (rarely) Tv; I usually set the ISO manually but occasionally (usually for a night of casual shooting) switch to Auto within limits, and on the occasion when I'm not happy with the metering, I under or over-expose it which essentially makes all the correction for me without me needing to switch to full manual.

So what's the point?

The only time I've ever used full manual is when playing around with flash.
 
Doing everything in manual (exposure, focus, flash settings) gives the satisfaction that you have truly created the photo and it helps to build an understanding of how light works.

This is ideal for a hobbyist but I can see that for a commercial tog then getting the shot is more important so they will tend to use auto features such as aperture priority, auto-focus and TTL flash.
 
Working in manual means that it is you making the decisions, not some bloke in Japan who programmed the auto functions.

Every time you make an adjustment, a different image will result. By learning how these adjustments affect the results, you build up an understanding of how the different settings will produce different kinds of photograph. You can choose, for instance, a deep or narrow depth of field. You can introduce some blur - or eliminate it. You can use (or know when it is not possible to use) ambient light. You can deliberately introduce an element of over- or underexposure, produce silhouettes, expose for dramatic sky or flowing water.

In other words, if you learn to use manual settings, you may learn how to take photographs, rather than hold on to your camera while it takes snap shots for you.

I wonder which you'd prefer... ;)

This is not to say auto functions have no place in photography. They do. But knowing when to use auto, and when not to, and which auto function is likely to give you a better result than using manual in a given situation, is all part of the art.

Learning this stuff can take, ooooh, days! :D
 
DazJW said:
Consistent exposure.
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If you are shooting group shots at a wedding using Av you might find each shot slightly differently exposed due to vagaries of the metering algorithms rather than massive changes in ambient light.

When sorting the photos later it is a pain if each shot needs separate tweaking to get them looking consistent.

Studio flash is where I use manual most, or when shooting very light or dark scenes that I expect the camera to meter to an average exposure.

99% of the time I'm in Av mode if I'm not using studio flash.

Phil
 
i used aperture priority for ages but about 4 months ago switched to manual and don't think i'll ever go back. The more you use manual the more intuitive it becomes and i honestly think it's improving my understanding of photography and ability to produce the type of images that i want to. I'd recommend that any one give it a try.
 
It's a matter of knowing how your camera will behave in every mode, when it will do what you want it to, when it might not.. and then selecting the appropriate mode for the situation and your intent.
 
jon ryan said:
Working in manual means that it is you making the decisions, not some bloke in Japan who programmed the auto functions.

Every time you make an adjustment, a different image will result. By learning how these adjustments affect the results, you build up an understanding of how the different settings will produce different kinds of photograph. You can choose, for instance, a deep or narrow depth of field. You can introduce some blur - or eliminate it. You can use (or know when it is not possible to use) ambient light. You can deliberately introduce an element of over- or underexposure, produce silhouettes, expose for dramatic sky or flowing water.

In other words, if you learn to use manual settings, you may learn how to take photographs, rather than hold on to your camera while it takes snap shots for you.

I wonder which you'd prefer... ;)

This is not to say auto functions have no place in photography. They do. But knowing when to use auto, and when not to, and which auto function is likely to give you a better result than using manual in a given situation, is all part of the art.

Learning this stuff can take, ooooh, days! :D
Click to expand...

But everything you've mentioned I have control over without delving into full manual, with Av or Tv modes.

DazJW said:
Consistent exposure.
Click to expand...

This is a good point.

philthejuggler said:
If you are shooting group shots at a wedding using Av you might find each shot slightly differently exposed due to vagaries of the metering algorithms rather than massive changes in ambient light.

When sorting the photos later it is a pain if each shot needs separate tweaking to get them looking consistent.

Studio flash is where I use manual most, or when shooting very light or dark scenes that I expect the camera to meter to an average exposure.

99% of the time I'm in Av mode if I'm not using studio flash.

Phil
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And how do you meter these? Do you have a handheld light meter? Or do you still rely on the camera's meter and adjust based on what you 'feel' is right?

If the latter, then once again full manual makes little sense since you can adjust as required in Av or Tv. Studio settings I fully understand.

rampanthamster said:
i used aperture priority for ages but about 4 months ago switched to manual and don't think i'll ever go back. The more you use manual the more intuitive it becomes and i honestly think it's improving my understanding of photography and ability to produce the type of images that i want to. I'd recommend that any one give it a try.
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Do you use the camera's meter, or a handheld meter?
 
It doesn't matter if you use manual, or aperture-priority, or programme or whatever. They're all just different ways of doing the same thing - setting the exposure. And using exposure compensation or programme shift or whatever, you can get exactly the same combination of settings in any mode.

The mode you choose is the one you prefer, according to your method of working, the subject, lighting and any particular technique.

The big difference with manual is that once you've set the exposure, it's locked. Even if the light changes or the subject changes, the settings will not.
 
For me the only way to have full control of the creativity is you turn that dial to M, I'm not saying that I don't use Av or Tv but I used M a lot, it will also help you learn how to fully control your camera, there are many shot's that I do that just cannot be done properly without use of M

Matt
MWHCVT
 
One thing to remember, if you use Manual and the camera's meter, you are still being helped by the camera to some degree. For example, if you decide that you want to set an aperture of f4 for your required depth of field:

Aperture Priority - The camera's meter dictates that the shutter speed should be 1/320th

Manual - The camera's meter tells you that your shutter speed needs to be 1/320th for the good exposure so you set the shutter dial accordingly.

So in both instances, the camera is dictating the shutter speed so in neither can the photographer say that they are totally in control. Exposure compensation can be used in both modes, AP will have a dedicated button, Manual just means dialling the compensation in yourself.

That all said, my camera is set to 'M' the vast majority of the time mainy because, as has already said, the exposure is locked and the camera can't change it should someone in a darker t-shirt walk into shot for instance.

There are still times when I use AP, usually when in a situation where light is constantly changing. All the modes have there uses, the trick is to know when to use each and for what.
 
fabs said:
Aperture Priority - The camera's meter dictates that the shutter speed should be 1/320th

Manual - The camera's meter tells you that your shutter speed needs to be 1/320th for the good exposure so you set the shutter dial accordingly.

So in both instances, the camera is dictating the shutter speed so in neither can the photographer say that they are totally in control. Exposure compensation can be used in both modes, AP will have a dedicated button, Manual just means dialling the compensation in yourself.
.
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Sorry but... thats not quite right.. well its certainly not the full story and probably the worse example of using manual I ahve seen... sorry :)

If you simply dial in what the camera tells you is the correct exposure for the scene in AV mode then whats the point in using Manual? There isnt any is the answer.. the example you give is the way NOT to use manual as you gain nothing..


Consistant exposure is what Manual will give you. consistant shutter speeds and consistant aperture and iso because its set manualy and will only change when you tell it.... Although it does give it you consistantly wrong if you get it wrong:)


If you expose a person using av in poor lighting walking down a street and its perfect in AV and set manual .. both give the same exposure both gives you the same picture... you want to take a series of pictures as the subject walks down the st... accept a car drives past with headlights on... using AV the scenes exposure will change as the lighting changes... with manual the exposure will stay the same.. is that good or bad?


I will give a better example in sports.. a player scores a goal and runs towards me.. al nicely exposed and i get the shots.... as the player gets close he jumps high in the air to celebrate ...suddenly we have a bright sky as backdrop... in AV the picture is ruined as the exposure changes and chances are the player is dark.. in manual the exposure stays the same ..the sky is not exposed correctly but the all important player is..

Making a decision to use Manual all the time is silly.. never using manual is also silly... you should use whats best for the given situation... if all you shoot is static objects in a set lit room then maybe always using manaul is the right decision.... my point is.. its not good advice to tell people to shoot one or the other (not aimed at fabs.. but at others)
 
Making a decision to use Manual all the time is silly.. never using manual is also silly... you should use whats best for the given situation... if all you shoot is static objects in a set lit room then maybe always using manaul is the right decision.... my point is.. its not good advice to tell people to shoot one or the other (not aimed at fabs.. but at others)
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Basically agree with above from Kipax and Alistair and Hoppy UK too.
 
Main problem I see with AV is students who set an aperture to give the DoF they want, and in the excitement of the shoot don't notice when the light drops, slowing the shutter, and ending up with a load of blurs. You need to keep an eye on the meter needle, another on the shutter speed, and a third on whatever it is you are shooting.

There's a thread going on about the value of EXIF data somewhere around here. The EXIF can go quite a way to telling you why some shots worked and others didn't.
 
KIPAX said:
If you simply dial in what the camera tells you is the correct exposure for the scene in AV mode then whats the point in using Manual? There isnt any is the answer.. the example you give is the way NOT to use manual as you gain nothing..
Click to expand...

That's very true, but the point is that's how a lot of people shoot 'manual.'
 
KIPAX said:
Sorry but... thats not quite right.. well its certainly not the full story and probably the worse example of using manual I ahve seen... sorry :)

If you simply dial in what the camera tells you is the correct exposure for the scene in AV mode then whats the point in using Manual? There isnt any is the answer.. the example you give is the way NOT to use manual as you gain nothing..

Consistant exposure is what Manual will give you. consistant shutter speeds and consistant aperture and iso because its set manualy and will only change when you tell it.... Although it does give it you consistantly wrong if you get it wrong:)


If you expose a person using av in poor lighting walking down a street and its perfect in AV and set manual .. both give the same exposure both gives you the same picture... you want to take a series of pictures as the subject walks down the st... accept a car drives past with headlights on... using AV the scenes exposure will change as the lighting changes... with manual the exposure will stay the same.. is that good or bad?


I will give a better example in sports.. a player scores a goal and runs towards me.. al nicely exposed and i get the shots.... as the player gets close he jumps high in the air to celebrate ...suddenly we have a bright sky as backdrop... in AV the picture is ruined as the exposure changes and chances are the player is dark.. in manual the exposure stays the same ..the sky is not exposed correctly but the all important player is..

Making a decision to use Manual all the time is silly.. never using manual is also silly... you should use whats best for the given situation... if all you shoot is static objects in a set lit room then maybe always using manaul is the right decision.... my point is.. its not good advice to tell people to shoot one or the other (not aimed at fabs.. but at others)
Click to expand...

Scarecrow said:
That's very true, but the point is that's how a lot of people shoot 'manual.'
Click to expand...

Which was the point I was trying to make. A lot of people who say that they shoot manual because they are in full control just line up the camera's meter by setting the shutter/aperture/iso accordingly.

Tony, exactly what part of my post are you disagreeing with as you seem to actually be agreeing with me in the rest of your post. The bit you quoted was simply an example of how manual can be used in a way that isn't, well, manual.
 
I think that with using digital the cameras own meter is not really needed when using manual as it's normally possible to guess the ambient light level to within a stop either way, so I will normally just take a test shot and then adjust if need be.
 
It is for novices like myself ;)
 
boliston said:
I think that with using digital the cameras own meter is not really needed when using manual as it's normally possible to guess the ambient light level to within a stop either way, so I will normally just take a test shot and then adjust if need be.
Click to expand...

I would say experience would be needed to be able to guess the ambient level within a stop so nothing wrong with using the camera's light meter to make that guess and then adjusting as necessary.
 
DoctorBob said:
If the latter, then once again full manual makes little sense since you can adjust as required in Av or Tv.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you have to adjust it every time the composition of the scene changes because the metering is done for the scene. In manual mode you set it once for the light (by camera meter, external meter, chimping, whichever) and you're done unless the light changes, which happens a lot less than you might expect.

It's like having exposure lock on permanently, it stops the camera messing up your shot.

And you can adjust more than +/- however many Ev your camera allows in Av and Tv because you're not confined to the exposure compensation scale.
 
Fabs - that's a good point; how you use manual (or any mode for that matter) depends on how you shoot as a photographer. Just relying on what the camera meter tells you isn't really getting the most from exposure modes.

I can see why many newcomers think that using manual will somehow make them overnight sensations - it's talked a lot about how experienced photographers use it because they have better instincts about exposure than the camera and manual mode allows them to full flex their creative muscles - but IMO there's a tendency to see using manual as some kind of badge of honour, as if you've moved to a higher plain by using it. You haven't; all that's been done is you've removed responsibility from the camera to yourself for the decision about exposure. I put that down to confidence, experience and knowing what you want and even that last bit, knowing what you want, is a grey area because awe don't always know what result we want.

I agree with what Tony says about manual being a brilliant mode for keeping things consistent (as per his football analogy) but having consistent exposure numbers across a series of frames doesn't equate to consistent 'good' exposure - you still have to know what you're doing and what the end result you want is. Plus, if you make a change to f-number or shutter speed, then YOU have to do the compensation on the other figure (unless you're using Auto ISO), which to some people might be either a deterrent, a hindrance or both. Tony is experienced enough to know how to work under the conditions he's faced with, but a semiautomatic mode might actually help someone with less experience in the same situation. They may not get that shot against the sky, but using Av for example may allow them to get shots they'd miss if they were in manual and second-guessing the settings they'd told their camera to use.

I use manual for the majority of my flash work because I'm using dumb triggers and I know I have to stay below the sync speed but also that the flash output is controlled by the aperture. The camera wouldn't be able to work like this in anything but manual mode where it's absolved of all responsibility.
 
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Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! It's helped a lot.

I don't want to use the manual mode on my camera because I think it would make me better, I want to use the manual mode so I will feel like I have a closer connection with the photograph that I took, and feel like I have done my part in creating a gorgeous photograph.

One thing I would like to ask, is how do I know when the settings are at their optimum? And how does the camera tell me that exposure is correct?

Also, are there any articles that would help me learn how to shoot good photographs, and learn the different photography terms.

once again, thank you for the replies!
 
If you rely on the camera to tell you it's exposed properly then you may as well use any of the semi-automatic modes.

I believe the FIRST thing to do is to learn about exposure, then learn how your camera's auto exposure system reacts to different situations and the different exposure modes it has (spot vs evaluative vs centre weighted) therefore when manual controls will be required.

I use pretty much all of the modes on the camera but I know when I need to use them, that's the key IMHO.
 
MattehCarter said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! It's helped a lot.

I don't want to use the manual mode on my camera because I think it would make me better, I want to use the manual mode so I will feel like I have a closer connection with the photograph that I took, and feel like I have done my part in creating a gorgeous photograph.
Click to expand...

You have done your part by seeing the shot and pressing the button - let the technology help you if it can and if it can't, just shoot anyway and judge by eye what you see on the LCD and in the histogram.

MattehCarter said:
One thing I would like to ask, is how do I know when the settings are at their optimum? And how does the camera tell me that exposure is correct?
Click to expand...

That's the thing, there is no correct, only what you feel is the best final image. What the camera decides is best is what it's pre-programmed to 'think'. You have the final say :)

MattehCarter said:
Also, are there any articles that would help me learn how to shoot good photographs, and learn the different photography terms.
Click to expand...

Again, 'good' is an individual interpretation. I couldn't point you to one place in particular to learn - books, the internet, magazines, forums, DVDs, Youtube.... they all offer something to photographers who are willing to put the effort in to find the info and to learn from it. This forum is as good a pace to start. Maybe highlighting the kinds of photography you like could help narrow things down. is there one thing that interests you?

As for terminology, it's a bit of a minefield because there are so many an acronyms associated to certain brands, plus lots of slang. Maybe doing a google search of 'photography terminology' will shed some light.... :)
 
To be honest I use aperture priority, shutter priority or manual mode depending on what is relevant at the time. Sometimes you don't want to use the automatic functions and there are good reason for this. Studio shots/externally lit shots etc require manual. If I'm in the park taking shots of my grand daughter I'm just going to use aperture.

Horses for courses etc.....
 
DazJW said:
Yes, but you have to adjust it every time the composition of the scene changes because the metering is done for the scene. In manual mode you set it once for the light (by camera meter, external meter, chimping, whichever) and you're done unless the light changes, which happens a lot less than you might expect.

.
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so whats the difference between metering for the scene and metering for the light ? ( for the scene ) :thinking:
 
donutagain said:
so whats the difference between metering for the scene and metering for the light ? ( for the scene ) :thinking:
Click to expand...

Similar to the difference between reflective and incident metering.
Reflective/"for the scene" can be influenced by how bright or dark the scene is (so it can be "wrong", and will be wrong when you change scene) whereas incident/"for the light" is only influenced by the light or, in the case of using manual to set settings, your own interpretation of the light (so it's always "right" unless you set it incorrectly).

You can set settings "for the light" in the priority modes but the camera will change them into settings "for the scene" if anything in the scene that might bias exposure changes.
 
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Thanks for all the replies again!

specialman - I like a range of photography, so far I have mainly taken photos of landscape/nature, but I'm moving into the side of photography where I take photographs of people skating/bmxing.

And I guess I would define good as having a nice balance of background to the main focus point and a good balance of colours.

Nawty - I understand what you mean by that, I'd just like to understand how the camera works, if that makes sense?

cowasaki - Thanks for this reply, it has opened my mind about when/when not to use manual mode :)
 
MattehCarter said:
Thanks for all the replies again!

specialman - I like a range of photography, so far I have mainly taken photos of landscape/nature, but I'm moving into the side of photography where I take photographs of people skating/bmxing.

And I guess I would define good as having a nice balance of background to the main focus point and a good balance of colours.
Click to expand...

That's a lot more to work with :thumbs:

There's a member on here called Cherryrig who does a lot of skate stuff.

Also, check out the 'sports' section of the image sharing section - there are alway some skate and BMX shots on show, although these are still probably some of the minority sports covered by TP members when compared to MTBing, footy, rugby, cricket.

Also, use the TP search function with terms like 'BMX', 'skate' etc - could throw up some older threads that have been banished to well down the list.

Flickr groups are a big help in getting inspiration. There are sure to be BMX and skate-related groups on flickr and if you don't know flickr, each group will have a discussion area where threads relevant to that type of photography will be. :)
 
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HoppyUK said:
It doesn't matter if you use manual, or aperture-priority, or programme or whatever. They're all just different ways of doing the same thing - setting the exposure. And using exposure compensation or programme shift or whatever, you can get exactly the same combination of settings in any mode.

The mode you choose is the one you prefer, according to your method of working, the subject, lighting and any particular technique.

The big difference with manual is that once you've set the exposure, it's locked. Even if the light changes or the subject changes, the settings will not.
Click to expand...

And there lies the problem, great if your shooting under controlled conditions but here in Wales we can have all four seasons in a day (I kid you not) light changes in a heartbeat. I have shot manual for many years but under changing lighting IMHO you'll get more consistant images with one of the "auto" mode AV etc.
 
specialman said:
That's a lot more to work with :thumbs:

There's a member on here called Cherryrig who does a lot of skate stuff.

Also, check out the 'sports' section of the image sharing section - there are alway some skate and BMX shots on show, although these are still probably some of the minority sports covered by TP members when compared to MTBing, footy, rugby, cricket.

Also, use the TP search function with terms like 'BMX', 'skate' etc - could throw up some older threads that have been banished to well down the list.

Flickr groups are a big help in getting inspiration. There are sure to be BMX and skate-related groups on flickr and if you don't know flickr, each group will have a discussion area where threads relevant to that type of photography will be. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you :)

I'm going to register to flickr now, and I'll have a look around the sports section.
 
Hello, new to the forum

A very interesting post, i've had my new camera 3 days & have mainly be using it in manual so i would learn more about how to use the apeture/shutter speed/iso & the difference each makes to the photo, but trying to learning all 3 at the same time means that im not aways sure if im adjusting the correct setting, so after reading this im going to us the AV & TV to learn one at a time & to allow the camera to adjust the other to its optimum setting.

im sure i will be reading and posting up many questions as im wanting to learn lots.
 
swanseamale47 said:
And there lies the problem, great if your shooting under controlled conditions but here in Wales we can have all four seasons in a day (I kid you not) light changes in a heartbeat. I have shot manual for many years but under changing lighting IMHO you'll get more consistant images with one of the "auto" mode AV etc.
Click to expand...

Very true. If there is a rule for these things (and there isn't :D) then it's when the subject is changing and the light is not, use manual. But if the light is changing and the subject is not, use an auto mode.
 
Carousels Spin - that's a shame that I haven't got one :(

sonic - I'm glad that the thred helped someone else out as well as my self!

HoppyUK - I think I understand that small conversation you and swansealman had there.

Barry Senior - Nope, I'm not confused anymore!
 
HoppyUK said:
Very true. If there is a rule for these things (and there isn't :D) then it's when the subject is changing and the light is not, use manual. But if the light is changing and the subject is not, use an auto mode.
Click to expand...

And as with every good rule, it has exceptions..

The one that springs to mind is music gig photography, where the overall lighting can be changing very rapidly but the effective lighting on the subject is relatively constant (which I think is what you describe as auto mode territory in the above rule). In this situation I have always found that manual gives the consistently best results. For me, auto modes have never managed to keep up under these circumstances. Probably because the overall lighting is rapidly switching between on-and-off backlighting.


It's all a matter of understanding how the cameras meter will respond, knowing it's capabilities and limitations. There is no getting round this basic requirement of understanding, no matter which mode you use.
 
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