Wildlife full frame jump

maninsuitcase

maninsuitcase

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Chris
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I've been looking to upgrade my body from a D7000 to a full frame camera. I've primarily been looking at the D800, with a 2nd option being the D610. Whilst I am sure these are both great options I've been beginning to question if my needs and wants make either of these cameras a good fit for me.

My primary driver is better higher ISO and better autofocus. Whilst I've used ISO 3200 (and higher) and got okay results the results I've been seeing from full frame cameras are considerably better. Also the 39 point AF is pretty good but there are certainly times this has either failed to lock on in failing light or just not kept up with the subject.

The D800 has the AF down the D610 the ISO, neither being as good as the other in the other area, but both better than what I have now. Both also aren't the highest FPS cameras ever, but I've been managing with 6 fps other than the 2 second buffer.

This has lead me to consider the previous generation of camera mainly the D3s and D700 + MB-D10. These both have great ISO performance and the AF is also pretty good. My only concern here is I have 16MP and do occasionally crop and dropping to 12 FX pixels seems like I'm loosing my crop safety net and would need to upgrade my 300mm and converters to something longer like a 500 which I just couldn't afford right now.

Output is mostly web but I've started to enter the big competitions this year where quality counts and also I have started printing for my own benefit, so far up to about 40cm on the long edge.

I am basically looking for input from people who have been doing this for longer than I have and more successfully. I accept I am very much all the gear no idea in many ways, but I find failure frustrating and the right gear does help when your out in the cold. Budget will be around the £2000 mark, obviously some options I've mentioned are over this but I'm not going out to get a used D4 as much as I'd love to.

I will be keeping the D7000 for a 2nd body and also have access to a D5300 and a few other older DX bodies.
 
Cropability on the D800 is stupidly good but it's no low-light king and I wouldn't want to rely on the A/F of the D610 for moving wildlife e.g BIF.
The D3S on the other hand has good A/F and arguably unbeatable low-light capability - having used both the D800 and D3S for wildlife, I would say that the D3S gave me a much higher percentage of keepers and it really is a great camera.
 
I do think the D3s is probably the best value option, I'm probably over egging the cropping thing and I am sure I'll soon get used to it also. I just seem to be unable to get past the fact that its an "old" camera and will be at least 2 years old now.

I suspect the true answer won't come out until I buy something then realise I should have bought the other one.
 
What's the final use likely to be? If it's only for web showing, a D700 will allow fairly hefty crops and still deliver but if you're after A3 or bigger prints, you may need the D800's extra pixies. I've taken a slightly different (and much cheaper!) route and have a V1 and FT1 so I can mount my F mount lenses on a 2.7x crop body. Effectively gives me the same sort of pixel density as the D800 but is way lighter (and cheaper). I have a D700 for FF use and have just (this morning) traded in my D800 against another CSC system (Fuji X-Pro-1). I had originally bought the D800 to allow heavy cropping (I do print big quite often) but the V1/FT1 do it for me in camera, albeit at some considerable loss of controllability and AF speed but if I need the SLR controls and AF, I can suffer with the fewer pixies that the D700 has compared to the D800.

If you're interested in a very low mileage second hand D800, I can tell you where it is - I think they do 2nd hand by mail order as well as in-store.
 
Mostly web but I am printing stuff now also, just finished my first monitor calibration to prepare for another order.

The biggest print I've done is about 40cm wide (is that close to A3, I'm not sure) and another about 12". The first was actually a print from a cropped d50 image and came out pretty well, the latter smaller was the d7000 and looks worse. I blame this on ISO as the d7000 image was ISO 3200 and a shade under exposed and boosted on post. The D50 image was ISO 400.

If I go with a D800 I'll probably buy new as I can, I've been having issues with a lens and am thankful the warrantee has covered a new AF motor, circuit, focus brushes and now a VR unit that had to be specially ordered from japan!
 
Well the D800 will certainly do large prints but with my D3S I've done 36" canvasses and 30" acrylics ... last canvas I sold was 48", so I can't see you having any worries!
 
I've done A3 prints from my D70 (same sensor as the D50 IIRC) and they look fine. TBH, a D700 would probably be fine for you and should leave you plenty of change from a £2,000 budget. Maybe even enough for a longer lens?
 
Perhaps the D700 and grip is the way forward, will start to try find once in reasonable condition then. And order a CF card or 2.
 
D700 and grip for the E4 battery is a good choice. The price secondhand seem to have steadied a bit as well. The 700 is a great camera,simple as that really bud.
 
The camera seems to range from 700 to 1200 condition dependant, grip is about £100 used on top. Will probably try get one from grays/MPB for arse coverage rather than private sale.

Battery wise you need the E4(a) battery, are the third party batteries up to much or is it a £100 Nikon job? Same with the chargers? Obviously I could just throw a load of AA's in too but the E4 have a crazy capacity.
 
maninsuitcase said:
The camera seems to range from 700 to 1200 condition dependant, grip is about £100 used on top. Will probably try get one from grays/MPB for arse coverage rather than private sale.

Battery wise you need the E4(a) battery, are the third party batteries up to much or is it a £100 Nikon job? Same with the chargers? Obviously I could just throw a load of AA's in too but the E4 have a crazy capacity.
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I used 7 day shop E4 batteries in both my gripped 300 and 700, only had one die on me, but it had lasted two years, so no complaint.

The only thing I would say is the the Nikon E4 chargers are better than any third party one I tried.

Should have added that once charged up, the batteries last for an absolute age. Two would suffice I think.
 
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A quick search and I can't find them on 7DS anymore but work blocks some of that site so it only half works. How much where they roughly, the £14 ones are suspiciously cheap but duracell do one at about £35.
 
maninsuitcase said:
A quick search and I can't find them on 7DS anymore but work blocks some of that site so it only half works. How much where they roughly, the £14 ones are suspiciously cheap but duracell do one at about £35.
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The ones i used were all around the £14 mark Chris, never had an explosion or a camera detonate due to using them. A good friend of mine still does use them,has done for years and never had a problem.

There was a thread on here where somebody took apart a very expensive Canon battery, only to find four rechargeable batteries inside the expensive Canon block.

Just had a look on 7day shop, cannot see them on there either Chris.
 
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Well it appears I've ordered a D700 and grip from MPB. Will order a CF card later and the lexar USB3 reader. Got a few used chargers watched on ebay, once I snag one I'll order a battery and the cover.
 
maninsuitcase said:
Well it appears I've ordered a D700 and grip from MPB. Will order a CF card later and the lexar USB3 reader. Got a few used chargers watched on ebay, once I snag one I'll order a battery and the cover.
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I`ll be surprised if your disappointed.

Try and bag a 1.4 tc as well Chris,though it appears you may have one, especially if your shooting primes. My 300 and 1.4 is probably my most used combo.
 
I have the 1.4 II and 2.0 iii use the 1.4 more though.

I suspect I will end up with a 500 at some point though. The weight might put me off though so will probably rent one first.
 
The 500 is not a heavy lens really Chris, it is easy to hand hold and carry about.

Pretty sure Stewart has them available, cracking lens to use and the the non VR versions are "reasonably" priced. Reasonable in comparison to the new over priced lenses.
 
There's a used non VR for 3something on MPB which is doable in the medium future. I would prefer the VR if I could find an nice used one, there was some for okay money about last month.

I'll get a weekend with on from lensforhire though, they seem to have both VR and non.
 
Have you thought about a 300 f2.8 vr 1/2? If you already have the 1.4 TC and 2x TC then you would have a range of focal lengths and maximum apertures. I bought one a few months ago for use on a d7100.at 300 f2.8, 420 f4 and 600 f5.6 it's surprised how well the images have come out, I bet it would be pretty good on a d700. A friend uses non vr AFS II 300mm on a d800 and loves it.
 
I actually have the VR2...well Nikon do as it's broken for the 4th time in 9 months since new!

I've been using it with my D7000 and TC14Eii and TC20Eiii and have been getting reasonable results. I suspect most my issues are either the AF being off or ISO beeing too high for the DX sensor, hence why I am after a full frame camera, as at low ISO the combo really shines.
 
back when the D700 was new it was an absolute stunner. was faster than most mid-range canon kit FPS , and outstripped the FF options in focusing.
great camera by all accounts. Just made the jump to FF myself (with canon) I love it!
 
maninsuitcase said:
I actually have the VR2...well Nikon do as it's broken for the 4th time in 9 months since new!

I've been using it with my D7000 and TC14Eii and TC20Eiii and have been getting reasonable results. I suspect most my issues are either the AF being off or ISO beeing too high for the DX sensor, hence why I am after a full frame camera, as at low ISO the combo really shines.
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I hope the d700 works out, it's the full frame camera I've thought about. Ive tried to keep ISO to around 2000 and results seem ok with the d7100, mainly the AF improvement I think that helps. Like you say at lower ISO it shines.
 
I've run a few images off with the only FX lens I own not at Nikon (cheap nasty sigma 70-300) and I suspect its about 1.5-2 stops better than my D7000 but I'd need to test it more properly.

Also got a couple of trade on quotes for my 17-55. Not as good as I'd hoped but then when I got it was pre D600 and FX was less affordable! Might raid the pound coin jar for the difference on the new sigma 24-105.
 
Oh by the way a nice D3 came up on MPB today that I would have got if it was there 2 days ago! By the time you add the grip and a charger etc for the d3 battery the price was about the same.
 
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