why was he using flash

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I have just bought a flash from this site and hope to find good info to teach me how to use it properly....this leads me to my 1st of many flash questions

i take pics at motox events and have always been pretty pleased of the end results,but on saturday at an event i was watching a pro taking shoots and he was using a flash?? it was a bright day and i cant think of any reason why he was using it,can someone educate me?

also what is meant by the term i hear alot to "freeze the action with a flash"by using a slow shutter speed?? even if there is enough light for a fast shutter speed.
 
he was probably using the flash to 'fill in' the shadows created by the sun. type in 'fill in flash' into google
 
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also what is meant by the term i hear alot to "freeze the action with a flash"by using a slow shutter speed?? even if there is enough light for a fast shutter speed.

If you think about it the flash acts like the shutter speed i.e. a very, very fast shutter speed and it is this light that exposes the photo e.g.

This was taken at about 1 second shutter if I remember correctly, but the flash freezes the action in the milk.

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he was probably using the flash to 'fill in' the shadows created by the sun. type in 'fill in flash' into google

+1.

It is very common to use flash when shooting in bright conditions, especially when the subject is not front lit. It fills in shadows and reduces contrast. I have motocross examples, but the example below demonstrates the need more strongly. This was shot with a bright, backlit sky, with an exposure set for the background. The subject was in his own shadow, and without flash would have been very underexposed. By adding flash I was able to balance the exposure for the shadowed subject with the backlit background. If you look at the shadow from the flash just in front of the subject's leg you can see how dark the wall and subject would have been, were it not for the flash.

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From my days of racing and studying every mx mag I could lay my hands on, it also makes the bike and rider 'pop'.
 
From my days of racing and studying every mx mag I could lay my hands on, it also makes the bike and rider 'pop'.

I think that's the full explanation. With flash in that situation, ie bikes flying through the air probably, it's doing several things.

He's probably on a slowish shutter speed around maybe 1/125sec and panning to blur the background. There is a major danger of movement blur, both subject and camera, and the flash will punch a sharp image on top of the ambient exposure, with a very short flash duration of 1/1000sec or less. So you get a sharper result.

The flash will also fill in the shadows as described above, and there's always lots of dark muddy bits on mx bikes. Plus anything shiny will pick up the flash and add bright highlights.

The flash will also fall away very rapidly with distance so anything much beyond the rider will not be affected by any visible flash exposure. Depending on the flash/ambient balance the photographer has chosen, the subject will 'pop' from the background for sure.

BTW flash in daylight is a very common and effective technique. For fill-in against the light obviously, and if you just want a bit of pop and lift and sparkle, add flash. It usually helps, often a lot, and hardly ever does any harm. Polaroid once made a range of cameras where the flash always fired, regardless - you couldn't turn it off. I got loads of great happy snaps from one of those (with a pile of free film I was given :D ) as it really suited the kind of stuff social/party shots those cameras were so good for.
 
its starting to sink in now,thanks to all for your replys.
would the flash be any good at any sort of distance?eg taking a pic of a guy 20ft in the air and 30 ft away from you over a jump?
 
sorry one more question(for the mean time anyway)
im nowstanding at the track with my flash ready,do i use the apature and shutter settings as if the flash isnt there or do i underexpose to compensate the flash.
im confident with my camera but now a flash has been added to the mix i feel im starting all over again so sorry if this is a silly question
 
its starting to sink in now,thanks to all for your replys.
would the flash be any good at any sort of distance?eg taking a pic of a guy 20ft in the air and 30 ft away from you over a jump?

sorry one more question(for the mean time anyway)
im nowstanding at the track with my flash ready,do i use the apature and shutter settings as if the flash isnt there or do i underexpose to compensate the flash.
im confident with my camera but now a flash has been added to the mix i feel im starting all over again so sorry if this is a silly question

To do this properly you need a big gun with a zoom head which narrows the beam so it is able to project over a greater distance. Canon flashes run to 105mm max and Nikons to 200mm I think. You won't have much chance with anything less, unless the subject is very close.

As to how much flash/ambient balance you want, that depends. I suspect the pro in question will have done a few test shots, checked the results on the LCD, and then locked everything in manual so it stays right.

You could do it on E-TTL auto, using the +/- controls on the camera and the gun to adjust the ratios, but I suspect every shot would be slightly different when you're tracking a moving subject and you'd be changing things all the time and end up chasing your tail.

Set up, test and check and retest, then lock everything in manual. Repeat and readjust if the ambient light changes, and remember that flash is very sensitive to distance so make sure the subject stays at roughly the same distance from you.
 
so should i set up the camera to work with the flash or adjust the speed/power of the flash around the camera settings?or a bit of both?
i think im starting to confuse myself now
 
so should i set up the camera to work with the flash or adjust the speed/power of the flash around the camera settings?or a bit of both?
i think im starting to confuse myself now

Your starting point is the ambient light - you can't change that - with a shutter speed at or below the x-sync, ie 1/250sec or longer. Then adjust the flash power to give the balance you want. It may not be that easy (not having much idea of the exact situation you'll be in) so you might have to juggle things.

You essentially have two exposures to work out, the ambeint and the flash, and it often takes a bit of experience and experimentation to get them balanced up optimally. And it's quite possible that the ambient will make things difficult, or even impossible.
 
Canon flashes run to 105mm max and Nikons to 200mm I think.

Yup, 200mm on the SB-900, 85mm on the SB-600, and 105mm on the SB-800.

would the flash be any good at any sort of distance?eg taking a pic of a guy 20ft in the air and 30 ft away from you over a jump?

If they're shooting high enough ISO, an SB-900 zoomed to 200mm could be useful on a subject 20-30ft away for some fill - as long as they're not wasting light by sticking the dome diffuser over the end outdoors. :)
 
Hi Stuart,

If the ambient light is fairly constant you can set the camera to manual mode and take a few test shots without flash to check exposure accuracy. You may want to underexpose 1/2 to 1 stop so that the flash-lit subject really stands out, or even more if you want, say, a really dramatic sky in the background.

When you are happy with the camera exposure add the flash into the mix. If the flash is too bright for the main subject use the flash exposure compensation on your camera to tone it down, or use plus compensation if the subject is too dark.

If the light is variable and constantly changing set the camera to one of the priority exposure modes. Shutter priority will ensure you don't exceed the sync speed (not an issue if you are using the flash in high speed mode). If your camera has an auto ISO option this could be useful to ensure you don't run out of possible shutter/aperture combinations.

Before you try it on something challenging like motor sport practice balancing the flash and camera exposure on a static subject. For moving subjects consider using second curtain flash so that any streaks of blurred movement caused by the ambient exposure appear behind the subject rather than in front.

Bear in mind that the 420EX I've just sold you is fairly modest in power and won't have the range of the much more powerful (and expensive) 580EX, for instance. The range will be particularly limited if you use High Speed flash mode to overcome the maximum normal sync speed of your camera.

As I said, if you are not happy with it for any reason you can return it for a full refund. Hope you enjoy it and get some really great pictures. :)
 
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thanks all for your input,John the 420ex im sure ill be happy with i realise it isnt to the spec of the 580 and others but as you can see i dont have a clue about using flash so im sure it will be ideal to start off with,if i ever need to upgrade at least when i do it i should be a bit more wiser and i will be able to use an upgraded gun to its full potential.
 
Assuming the Guide Number of the 420EX to be 42m at 100 ISO, if you were shooting at f/5.6 and 200 ISO the flash would theoretically be able to provide fill at -1 up to a range of....

42 / 5.6 x 1.4 x 1.4 = 15m (~50')

The multipliers of 1.4X are for raising the ISO to 200 and only requiring fill at -1. You could extend the range by opening up the aperture or increasing ISO. For each stop you open up or add with your ISO you will increase reach by 1.4X. To get that distance you would have to stick to the sync speed (1/250) or slower with your shutter.
 
Assuming the Guide Number of the 420EX to be 42m at 100 ISO, if you were shooting at f/5.6 and 200 ISO the flash would theoretically be able to provide fill at -1 up to a range of....

42 / 5.6 x 1.4 x 1.4 = 15m (~50')

The multipliers of 1.4X are for raising the ISO to 200 and only requiring fill at -1. You could extend the range by opening up the aperture or increasing ISO. For each stop you open up or add with your ISO you will increase reach by 1.4X. To get that distance you would have to stick to the sync speed (1/250) or slower with your shutter.

Tim, guide numbers are estimated in some kind of 'average room' (which is never specified) and take into account a fair amount of light reflected back from walls and ceilings.

In practise if you shoot outside you will be a stop or more down on what the guide number suggests.
 
Tim, guide numbers are estimated in some kind of 'average room' (which is never specified) and take into account a fair amount of light reflected back from walls and ceilings.

In practise if you shoot outside you will be a stop or more down on what the guide number suggests.

I did not know that. Do you have a reference source for that info, because nothing I have read (which isn't saying much) makes any such mention, and zoomed to 105mm, which is where the specified GN applies, I don't imagine there will be much bounce back from ceiling and walls because the flash will (should) barely touch them before reaching the subject.

Next thing you know we'll have auto manufacturers quoting top speeds for the vehicles (when rolling down a steep hill). The cheek of it.
 
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I did not know that. Do you have a reference source for that info, because nothing I have read (which isn't saying much) makes any such mention, and zoomed to 105mm, which is where the specified GN applies, I don't imagine there will be much bounce back from ceiling and walls because the flash will (should) barely touch them before reaching the subject.

No Tim, I don't have a reference for that. There doesn't appear to be any ISO standard or whatever for testing guide numbers. It's frustrating really, because it's what we use to estimate the power of a flash gun but it is subject to these unspecified variables, and with a good dose of optimisim thrown in. And guide numbers are always quoted for the longest focal length/zoom setting, and what account they make for edge fall-off (vignetting, which is very strong on some guns) is another unknown.

Guide numbers used to be very important because we all used them to calculate exposure (as best we could) but with auto-TTL systems it is rarely put to the test in a measureable way. However, if you do some tests and take one pic in a small light room (bathroom?), then one in a normal living area, and then a third in the dark outside - all at the same flash power obviously - then you'll get about two stops difference between the extremes.

I take your point about the longer zoom head setting, could be valid here, but a lot of the light that is bounced back and into the overall exposure comes from walls etc behind the subject and that is what will be missing for the OP, regardless of zoom setting. And just on that, if you zoom the head and check that with a flash meter, it doesn't change anything like in line with the inverse square law as you might expect - the zoom mech is very crude.
 
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Cheers, Richard. I think I will try a little test for myself. I sometimes use fill flash at long distance for bird photography, so I rely on an assumption that the GN has some meaning based on reality when judging how much fill I can expect. I also use a Better Beamer to help things along a little. Definitely some proper testing is required to sort wheat from chaff. :)
 
Cheers, Richard. I think I will try a little test for myself. I sometimes use fill flash at long distance for bird photography, so I rely on an assumption that the GN has some meaning based on reality when judging how much fill I can expect. I also use a Better Beamer to help things along a little. Definitely some proper testing is required to sort wheat from chaff. :)

I guessed you might :D Be v interested in your results.

I've got a B Beamer too but only used it a couple of times. Sure it works, but I've never tested it.

The lack of consistency in guide number claims is something we ought to know more about but as I say, with auto-TTL any shorfalls are automatically compensated and the GN is only ever put to the test when we fall short on full power, ie not often and then they are so many other variables etc it's never really checked out.

I would also be interested to see what you get when testing fall off at the edges and corners of the frame. Manufacturers cheat like heck on that and punch a lot of light towards the centre (on which the GN is based) in the fairly confident knowledge that's where the main subject is going to be, and so long as that's okay we're not going to worry or even notice about the rest of the image.
 
I don't have a flash meter but I do have a white garage door and a long tape measure so I can certainly set something up. I'll have to wait till the ambient has dropped though. It's a bit lively out there at the moment.
 
I don't have a flash meter but I do have a white garage door and a long tape measure so I can certainly set something up. I'll have to wait till the ambient has dropped though. It's a bit lively out there at the moment.

And a man of your calibre! :eek: I use mine mostly for testing this kind of stuff! :D

I'm not sure about a white garage door, I'm thinking big reflections if you're square on. A brick wall would be good. And blinkies are brill for this kind of thing, better than a flash meter TBH, you can see exactly what's going on with a nice little pictorial representation :thumbs:
 
Sunshine has now turned into a thunderstorm, so results may be delayed.
 
Right, results are in. I calculated the flash to subject distance required to shoot at 100 ISO, f/16 and full power, assuming my 580EX II to be delivering the promised GN of 58. I used a 100mm lens on my 5D2 and manually zoomed the flash to 105mm. That meant placing the flash head at 58/16 = 3.625m from the subject, which in this case was my white garage door. I stood in front of the door, so if anything I should have been overlit.

Here are the results....

1.
untitled%20%281%20of%205%29.jpg
No flash, showing a nil contribution from ambient light;

2.
untitled%20%282%20of%205%29.jpg
Flash at full power and f/16, which should yield a correct exposure for the door.

3.
untitled%20%283%20of%205%29.jpg
Flash at full power and f/14, which should have the door overexposed by 1/3 stop;


4.
untitled%20%284%20of%205%29.jpg
Flash at full power and f/13, which should have the door overexposed by 2/3 stop. The image is exposed almost perfectly to the right, with no clipping;

5.
untitled%20%285%20of%205%29.jpg
Flash at full power and f/11, which should have the door overexposed by 1 stop. There is a large clipped hotspot in the centre of the door. No doubt this is badly overexposed.

On the basis of these results I would say that the flash is probably delivering about 1/2 stop less light than claimed, but that's based on eyeballing the results rather than any hard measurements.
 
Excellents tests Tim :thumbs: Thanks.

They fit pretty well with what you'd expect, and also with my own slightly different tests below. Basically that the environment influences the guide number and that when shooting outside with flash you lose about half a stop.

Anyway, here's what I did - Canon 580EX (identical to the MkII in terms of flash output) and Sekonic flash meter. I tried it outside where there exposure was down on the guide number between 0.3 stops (105mm) and 0.6 stops (17mm with wide panel). In line with Tim's findings. This difference between readings according to the zoom head settings is to be expected as the wider the angle of the flash coverage, the more the environment influences the guide number.

In a 'normal' room, the guide number exposure seemed to be spot on as far as it's possible to measure/estimate, at all zoom head settings.

Moving to a small bright room (bathroom) I was getting over exposure based on the guide number, by 0.3 stops at 105mm and 0.8 stops at 17mm. Here the small room is reflecting loads of light back to boost the exposure, and with the wide panel down at 17mm that makes an even greater difference.

They are in line with what I said above about the environment influencing the guide number, but they are not so much influenced as I suggested. That is, when used outside, about half a stop of the light contributing to the claimed guide number is lost. When used indoors in a 'normal' room, the guide number calculated exposure is spot on, and when used in a small bright room (my bathroom) there's a gain of about half a stop over the guide number.

TBH I think the only significant thing to know is that when shooting outside, you're going to run out of absolute flash power about half a stop earlier than the guide number might lead you to believe. But at all other times of course this doesn't matter because as the auto-TTL takes care of it and adjusts automatically.

General comments, I was impressed with the honesty of the guide number on the Canon 580EX. It's certainly true that not all guns deliver on their claims as accurately, but then again I guess this is a top of the range £300 flash.

Less impressive was the evenness of the flash coverage at wide angle settings. TBH at 24mm it was pretty terrible with a pronounced hot-spot in the middle. I didn't measure it but visually it looked like about one stop down towards the edges and two stops down in the extreme corners. Having said that, at least some of this darkening is down to the lens (24-105L) as all wide angle zooms vignette at short focal lengths, so the error is compounded with flash. Flipping the wide panel down evens this out considerably, but then you lose a lot of power that way.

Things got much better at longer focal lengths and past 35mm it was noticeably better and at 105mm the flash coverage was effectively perfectly even all over the frame.

The lesson there is if even flash coverage is important, take the flash of the auto-zoom mode, which automatically matches the zoom head to the lens focal length, and set the zoom head manually to a wider setting than the focal length of the lens.
 
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Excellents tests Tim :thumbs: Thanks.

They fit pretty well with what you'd expect, and also with my own slightly different tests below. Basically that the environment influences the guide number and that when shooting outside with flash you lose about half a stop.

Anyway, here's what I did - Canon 580EX (identical to the MkII in terms of flash output) and Sekonic flash meter. I tried it outside where there exposure was down on the guide number between 0.3 stops (105mm) and 0.6 stops (17mm with wide panel). In line with Tim's findings. This difference between readings according to the zoom head settings is to be expected as the wider the angle of the flash coverage, the more the environment influences the guide number.

In a 'normal' room, the guide number exposure seemed to be spot on as far as it's possible to measure/estimate, at all zoom head settings.

Moving to a small bright room (bathroom) I was getting over exposure based on the guide number, by 0.3 stops at 105mm and 0.8 stops at 17mm. Here the small room is reflecting loads of light back to boost the exposure, and with the wide panel down at 17mm that makes an even greater difference.

They are in line with what I said above about the environment influencing the guide number, but they are not so much influenced as I suggested. That is, when used outside, about half a stop of the light contributing to the claimed guide number is lost. When used indoors in a 'normal' room, the guide number calculated exposure is spot on, and when used in a small bright room (my bathroom) there's a gain of about half a stop over the guide number.

TBH I think the only significant thing to know is that when shooting outside, you're going to run out of absolute flash power about half a stop earlier than the guide number might lead you to believe. But at all other times of course this doesn't matter because as the auto-TTL takes care of it and adjusts automatically.

General comments, I was impressed with the honesty of the guide number on the Canon 580EX. It's certainly true that not all guns deliver on their claims as accurately, but then again I guess this is a top of the range £300 flash.

Less impressive was the evenness of the flash coverage at wide angle settings. TBH at 24mm it was pretty terrible with a pronounced hot-spot in the middle. I didn't measure it but visually it looked like about one stop down towards the edges and two stops down in the extreme corners. Having said that, at least some of this darkening is down to the lens (24-105L) as all wide angle zooms vignette at short focal lengths, so the error is compounded with flash. Flipping the wide panel down evens this out considerably, but then you lose a lot of power that way.

Things got much better at longer focal lengths and past 35mm it was noticeably better and at 105mm the flash coverage was effectively perfectly even all over the frame.

The lesson there is if even flash coverage is important, take the flash of the auto-zoom mode, which automatically matches the zoom head to the lens focal length, and set the zoom head manually to a wider setting than the focal length of the lens.

THis all makes perfect sense. The only observation I'd make is that although you do lose a lot of power by using the wide panel, at shorter focal lengths this isn't likely to be an issue because camera to subject differences will probably be quite short anyway.

Thanks Tim and Richard for sharing the results of your tests. :)
 
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