Why do we need a calibration dock?

Lemaildetom

Lemaildetom

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Just a moan kind of thread. While i have the sigma dock and i find the results you can obtain with such device are worth it. I find there are a real faff to use, as you need to detach lens, connect to the dock, check for updates, go in setting, edit the setting, detach, reattached to camera,.... and again and again...

Why is this cannot be done by connecting to the camera usb port directly? I guess the dock uses the same pin that there is on the lens that the camera use so it should be possible to do pretty easily. This way you would save a lot of faffing, specially that each time you disconnect the lens and reattached it, you need to make sure you haven't move anything in your tripod/target setup. This could take advantage of teethering function too.

Just a thought...
 
It would require the camera to support the dock functionality - and if you were a a camera manufacturer, would you want to spend time (and money) improving support for a 3rd party alternative to your own lenses?
 
Lemaildetom said:
Why is this cannot be done by connecting to the camera usb port directly?
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Camera manufacturers cooperating with 3rd party lens manufacturers (competitors) to make their lenses more attractive ... that's a novel idea! :D
 
I would expect that its easier for Sigma to produce a dock that works with their various lenses, in different lens mounts, than it is to work with Canon, Nikon, Sony etc., to produce a technology via the USB connection that extends to firmware level access, that works both on historical models going back a decade and several years into the future.

Whilst the dock isn't as elegant a solution it could be, its something Sigma have total control over.
 
Faldrax said:
It would require the camera to support the dock functionality - and if you were a a camera manufacturer, would you want to spend time (and money) improving support for a 3rd party alternative to your own lenses?
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Then they should start doing it for your own lens. Instead of offering poor in camera lens calibration. Sigma and Tamron are onto something which the reel brand should dive into as well? And if they could offer it live tethered while mounted on the camera that would be a game changer.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
How about just tightening the tolerances so the lenses actually work?

For the money the Art lenses fetch I'd have thought they work all work out of the box.
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This would only work if the camera makers tightened their own tolerances as if the lens is perfect and your camera is way out you've got the exact same problem.
 
woof woof said:
This would only work if the camera makers tightened their own tolerances as if the lens is perfect and your camera is way out you've got the exact same problem.
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Really?

I never had to use any dock on my D70 with any 3rd party lens. Or my 30D. Or my XT1 or 2.

And I don't need to use it (or micro adjustment) on my Olympus.

To me it smacks of lack of care / QA.


I wouldn't by a new car and expect to have to buy a tune up kit to make it perform as advertised.
 
gramps said:
Camera manufacturers cooperating with 3rd party lens manufacturers (competitors) to make their lenses more attractive ... that's a novel idea! :D
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Olympus and Panasonic both do this. I updated the firmware in my Panasonic lens by going to the Olympus web site, connecting my Olympus camera plus Panasonic lens to a USB port and clicking on the link to update the lens firmware. Panasonic offer the same for Olympus lenses attached to Panasonic cameras.
 
Lemaildetom said:
Just a moan kind of thread. While i have the sigma dock and i find the results you can obtain with such device are worth it. I find there are a real faff to use, as you need to detach lens, connect to the dock, check for updates, go in setting, edit the setting, detach, reattached to camera,.... and again and again...
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I have a Sigma 159-600 C lens which performs perfectly as supplied. I think a large part of the purpose of the dock is to allow users to fiddle rather than to achieve meaningful results.
 
Everything is built to tolerances, both when new and allowing for wear. One body could be at the limits of its tolerances, and the lens could be slightly out as well. Being able to micro adjust can make something that gives really good results into something that delivers spectacular results.

For road cars its fine.

For people going racing its not, even engines which have to remain fairly standard get 'blueprinted', and this means that sets of standard internals are matched as carefully as possible to ensure the most appropriate set of tolerances are achieved to give that engine superior performance to an otherwise seemingly identical engine.
 
A friend of mine had a D750 with a Sigma 35mm Art lens. With a little micro adjustment it worked fine. No dock needed.

He sold the lens to another D750 owner. Even with a dock the combo could not be adjusted to give sharp results.

Therefore modern standards of workmanship are obviously slipping and there's the proof.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
Really?

I never had to use any dock on my D70 with any 3rd party lens. Or my 30D. Or my XT1 or 2.

And I don't need to use it (or micro adjustment) on my Olympus.

To me it smacks of lack of care / QA.


I wouldn't by a new car and expect to have to buy a tune up kit to make it perform as advertised.
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I’m assuming the xt1 and 2 use contrast detection af which would put them out of the scope to require calibration as it’s perfect every time focusing on the sensor rather than a phase detection sensor.

I’ve never had a camera and lens that for critical pixel peeping couldn’t be improved by calibration.

People have different expectations and may not always see the issue. I recently bought a Tamron 24-70G2 and was amazed how sharp it was out of the box and could have left it at that. After running it through Reikan FoCal I was impressed it got even better and am looking forward to fiddling more with the Tamron Tap in console.

I would respectfully suggest if I ran your camera and lenses through Reikan FoCal it could improve them.
 
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john.margetts said:
Olympus and Panasonic both do this. I updated the firmware in my Panasonic lens by going to the Olympus web site, connecting my Olympus camera plus Panasonic lens to a USB port and clicking on the link to update the lens firmware. Panasonic offer the same for Olympus lenses attached to Panasonic cameras.
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This is one though where they started out agreeing on what they wanted the outcome to be, i’m assuming m43. Nikon, canon, sony & pentax try hard to make sigma and tamron have issues. Updating lens firmware and other focus issues via dosk allows sigma/ tamron to fight back to some degree

Imagine having spent £3-4k on a 3rd party lens in your camera mount. New body required and your investment in 3rd party lens incompatible- who do you blame. Nikon f mount doesn’t really mean f mount if your 3rd party supplier
 
john.margetts said:
I have a Sigma 159-600 C lens which performs perfectly as supplied. I think a large part of the purpose of the dock is to allow users to fiddle rather than to achieve meaningful results.
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I totally disagree with that, i have the same sigma 150-600C and i think it was spot on straight away which was a relief because playing with such long distance to do the calibration and then doing it at 4 focal lens would be a headache. But i have both a 35 and a 50mm art and there i would say the lens was unusable without the dock.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
Drop me your address Brazo and I'll send you my Nikon EM and 50mm f1.8E. [emoji2]
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With respect your op stated digital cameras :p

But if you want to send them my way I’ll happily get my shims out;)
 
Jim_Tod said:
... Nikon, canon, sony & pentax try hard to make sigma and tamron have issues. ...
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I don't know about Nikon, Canon and Pentax, but for Sony (and Minolta) A-Mount, the consensus was that Sigma refused to pay the licence fee for the lens protocols, and instead reverse engineered them.

Tamron, on the other hand, are believed to have paid the licence fee.

As a result, with the A-Mount, up to the point where Sony added new AF functionality in the A99 then A99II, any Sony, Minolta or Tamron A-Mount lens would work 100% with any Sony A mount Camera - Sigma lenses mostly worked, but some needed re-chipping or woudl be MF only.
 
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