Why are they bothering

the black fox

the black fox

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I,m referring to the police and authorities looking for the family from Slough ? That are believed to be heading for Syria .my view is let them go and flag up there passports so they can't come back ,I feel sorry for the kids being taken to a war zone but that's the parents prerogative I think .
Any one else feel the same
 
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Personally I think everything should be done to stop the children being taken into IS controlled areas, it sadly for them looks too late.

I'm really not sure what goes through parents minds if this is indeed what is happening. Even assuming they believed in the IS ideology, you would surely not take your children there.
 
I'm sure the children will have already been indoctrinated into the ways of the extremists regardless of their age. They will cause mischief here at some point in the future so best they aren't here.
 
akr said:
The children are aged 4, 2 and 1 - are you serious?
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Yes it's a life they live, just as our children are preyed on by clever marketing from the media, never too young.
 
h14nha said:
Yes it's a life they live, just as our children are preyed on by clever marketing from the media, never too young.
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Well if you know someone who can come and indoctrinate my 1 year old with the values he will hold for the rest of his life so I don't have to bother for the next 17 years please PM me his number! :) Not sure if it's too late for for my 4 year old though!

Seriously you cannot give up on children at this age - I'm hoping you are joking and I've missed the joke!
 
akr said:
Well if you know someone who can come and indoctrinate my 1 year old with the values he will hold for the rest of his life so I don't have to bother for the next 17 years please PM me his number! :) Not sure if it's too late for for my 4 year old though!

Seriously you cannot give up on children at this age - I'm hoping you are joking and I've missed the joke!
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They have little chance with parents like that. Expect to see them holding placards at an extremist Muslim march when they are of age. They will learn to despise you and your way of life and would gladly see it end for their caliphate.
 
Laudrup said:
They have little chance with parents like that. Expect to see them holding placards at an extremist Muslim march when they are of age. They will learn to despise you and your way of life and would gladly see it end for their caliphate.
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If we do nothing certainly the most likely outcome. That said I know plenty of people who have been 'indoctrinated' in various religions at a young age who subsequently completely rebel and reject it.
 
akr said:
Well if you know someone who can come and indoctrinate my 1 year old with the values he will hold for the rest of his life so I don't have to bother for the next 17 years please PM me his number! :) Not sure if it's too late for for my 4 year old though!

Seriously you cannot give up on children at this age - I'm hoping you are joking and I've missed the joke!
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I wish I was joking, these people tell their children their god will reward them for blowing themselves up and killing non muslims.
 
h14nha said:
I wish I was joking, these people tell their children their god will reward them for blowing themselves up and killing non muslims.
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Well maybe, my point was that at age 4, 2 and 1 no child is indoctrinated in anything to that point of no return, if indoctrinate at all.
 
akr said:
Well maybe, my point was that at age 4, 2 and 1 no child is indoctrinated in anything to that point of no return, if indoctrinate at all.
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Well as the father of a 2 year old and a 3 day old I will agree with that. I will teach my children good manners cost nothing, respect has to be earned not demanded, money won't buy you happiness etc etc

There are others who don't agree with me
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWwCKvvodBA
 
h14nha said:
I wish I was joking, these people tell their children their god will reward them for blowing themselves up and killing non muslims.
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And you think that at 4, 2 and 1 it's too late for these kids?
 
my whole point was though ,should we really be paying wages to policemen and social workers looking to find and return them to the u.k ,likewise the other recent spate of teenagers etc who having been deported from turkey after there adventure holiday we are footing the bill for there return flights ,and there easing back into a normal society .to my way of thinking its rather like peeing into a bucket with no bottom
 
"Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man" - Francis Xavier, founder of the Jesuits. Attributed to him anyway, but I'm not sure of the historical evidence.
 
Just so long as they haven't taken any kittens with them...:D
 
the black fox said:
my whole point was though ,should we really be paying wages to policemen and social workers looking to find and return them to the u.k ,likewise the other recent spate of teenagers etc who having been deported from turkey after there adventure holiday we are footing the bill for there return flights ,and there easing back into a normal society .to my way of thinking its rather like peeing into a bucket with no bottom
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Do i think looking after very young children is a good use of police resources? Yes I do. I'm somewhat surprised you don't.
 
akr said:
If we do nothing certainly the most likely outcome. That said I know plenty of people who have been 'indoctrinated' in various religions at a young age who subsequently completely rebel and reject it.
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How many Muslims do you know that have done that?
 
Laudrup said:
How many Muslims do you know that have done that?
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I know quite a few (more than a dozen), but then they were not from a Sunni/Wahhabi background, and their parents were not what you would call radical/fundamentalist.
To suggest that children aged between 1 and 4 are already radicalised is stupidity beyond belief. If that were really the case then we would be sending children of that age to school, and then take them out of school aged 5, safe in the knowledge that they had absorbed all the worthwhile teaching which we could give them.
 
Laudrup said:
How many Muslims do you know that have done that?
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well my mate Javid refused an arranged mariage and went off to university to study metalurgy instead, Murad refused to go into training to become a mullah and is now working in advertising , and Tomic (who was a bosnian muslim hence the name - I say was because he's a practicing christian these days) outraged his family by marrying a christian girl and eventually emigrated to australia where he now repairs and sells classic cars for a living.

I think a key question here is how many muslims do you actually know ? ( I suspect the answer will be slightly less than 1) , they arent bogeymen, or strangers from another planet, in essence the vast majority are just like us , they broadly like the same things we do and have the same hopes dreams and desires - the radicals are a teeny minority , and blaming all muslims for their actions is as logical as blaming all catholics for the actions of the IRA
 
big soft moose said:
I think a key question here is how many muslims do you actually know ? ( I suspect the answer will be slightly less than 1) , they arent bogeymen, or strangers from another planet, in essence the vast majority are just like us , they broadly like the same things we do and have the same hopes dreams and desires - the radicals are a teeny minority , and blaming all muslims for their actions is as logical as blaming all catholics for the actions of the IRA
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With 1.6 billion muslims in the world, the percentage who are terrorists/radicals is going to be ridiculously small. most of them are normal people just like us.


Steve.
 
big soft moose said:
well my mate Javid refused an arranged mariage and went off to university to study metalurgy instead, Murad refused to go into training to become a mullah and is now working in advertising , and Tomic (who was a bosnian muslim hence the name - I say was because he's a practicing christian these days) outraged his family by marrying a christian girl and eventually emigrated to australia where he now repairs and sells classic cars for a living.

I think a key question here is how many muslims do you actually know ? ( I suspect the answer will be slightly less than 1) , they arent bogeymen, or strangers from another planet, in essence the vast majority are just like us , they broadly like the same things we do and have the same hopes dreams and desires - the radicals are a teeny minority , and blaming all muslims for their actions is as logical as blaming all catholics for the actions of the IRA
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Arranged marriage isn't much to do with Islam, mostly backwards tribal traditions from semi-autonomous Pakistani regions imported here. Not becoming a mullah, again not apostasy. The Bosnian Muslims are European in view, they wouldn't identify themselves with the Middle East or Pakistani tribes etc.

The IRA were territorial, it wasn't about religion so being Catholic or not wouldn't matter. Try not being a Muslim in the Islamic State.
 
Laudrup said:
Arranged marriage isn't much to do with Islam, mostly backwards tribal traditions from semi-autonomous Pakistani regions imported here. Not becoming a mullah, again not apostasy. The Bosnian Muslims are European in view, they wouldn't identify themselves with the Middle East or Pakistani tribes etc.

The IRA were territorial, it wasn't about religion so being Catholic or not wouldn't matter. Try not being a Muslim in the Islamic State.
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answer the question - how many muslims do you know personally ?
 
Laudrup said:
How many Muslims do you know that have done that?
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I know a muslim who took a cricket bat to the head off his own father when he brought home a white girl. His father was extremely religious and had raised his family in a very strict muslim way.


My friend is now married to that girl, still a practising muslim and doesn't speak to his father. He drinks/smokes etc and is in no way fundamental with his religion

He's done what 99.9% of muslims (and indeed all religious people) do and found a balance between his life and his faith.
 
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akr said:
Plenty. Across multiple religions. I also know plenty who have not, again across all religions.
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I read a poll that said 1 out of 3 British Muslims aged 16 to 24 believe that Muslim apostates should be executed. Apostasy can get you killed in Islamic countries and certainly shunned or excommunicated from family and the community here. If your father was an Islamic extremist raising you with this garbage from birth the chances are you won't be leaving it behind any time soon.
 
Yes most are as you say just normal people these are not the ones that bother me it's the ridiculously small percentage who are terrorist and radicals.

If your figure of 1.6 billion is correct and the figures that are bandied about put the percentage that are radicalised at 10-20% which I hope is a vast over estimate but even if the figure was as low as 0.5% that is still 8,000,000 radicalised Muslims which to me is a lot. If they were to ever get organized and funded we (and by this I mean anyone who is not of their faith) should be concerned.
 
tarric said:
Yes most are as you say just normal people these are not the ones that bother me it's the ridiculously small percentage who are terrorist and radicals.

If your figure of 1.6 billion is correct and the figures that are bandied about put the percentage that are radicalised at 10-20% which I hope is a vast over estimate but even if the figure was as low as 0.5% that is still 8,000,000 radicalised Muslims which to me is a lot. If they were to ever get organized and funded we (and by this I mean anyone who is not of their faith) should be concerned.
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thing is of that tiny minority they are all radicalised in different ways - if IS succeed is setting up an extremmist state out of the ruins of iraq and syria, the country most likely to get into a serious punch up with them is iran

There are a lot more christians in the world, and a proportion of them are fundamentalist head cases too
 
big soft moose said:
answer the question - how many muslims do you know personally ?
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A few at work but what does that matter? I live next door to a Jehovah's witness and the missus has a father who is a Baptist minister. You can believe whatever flavour of sky fairy you like as long as you keep it to yourself.
 
Laudrup said:
I read a poll that said 1 out of 3 British Muslims aged 16 to 24 believe that Muslim apostates should be executed. Apostasy can get you killed in Islamic countries and certainly shunned or excommunicated from family and the community here. If your father was an Islamic extremist raising you with this garbage from birth the chances are you won't be leaving it behind any time soon.
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Did they poll all of the british muslims to get this "fact"?

Or is it just a poll of 3 people at a rally and they found one to say something bad?
 
Laudrup said:
A few at work but what does that matter? I live next door to a Jehovah's witness and the missus has a father who is a Baptist minister. You can believe whatever flavour of sky fairy you like as long as you keep it to yourself.
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My point being that you appear to know jack s*** about islam apart from what you read in the daily mail and similar press
 
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mjScall said:
Did they poll all of the british muslims to get this "fact"?

Or is it just a poll of 3 people at a rally and they found one to say something bad?
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I suspect they poled about a thousand or less - and they probably got a self selecting sample by doing it in areas outside mosques.
 
tarric said:
Yes most are as you say just normal people these are not the ones that bother me it's the ridiculously small percentage who are terrorist and radicals.
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thats true of any religion. All have their radicals and fundamentalists.
 
Laudrup said:
I read a poll that said 1 out of 3 British Muslims aged 16 to 24 believe that Muslim apostates should be executed. Apostasy can get you killed in Islamic countries and certainly shunned or excommunicated from family and the community here. If your father was an Islamic extremist raising you with this garbage from birth the chances are you won't be leaving it behind any time soon.
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link please ;)
 
andy700 said:
I know quite a few (more than a dozen), but then they were not from a Sunni/Wahhabi background, and their parents were not what you would call radical/fundamentalist.
To suggest that children aged between 1 and 4 are already radicalised is stupidity beyond belief. If that were really the case then we would be sending children of that age to school, and then take them out of school aged 5, safe in the knowledge that they had absorbed all the worthwhile teaching which we could give them.
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A child growing up with a father who wants to live under Islamic State and believes in what Anjem Choudary is spouting means his kids have got little chance of not being shaped by those views in a negative manner. Especially when they will be reminded that apostasy is not actual physical death but social death for them.
 
57.9% of the statistics you find on the internet are made up ;)

also polls are often worded to get preconceived answers
 
Laudrup said:
A child growing up with a father who wants to live under Islamic State and believes in what Anjem Choudary is spouting means his kids have got little chance of not being shaped by those views in a negative manner. Especially when they will be reminded that apostasy is not actual physical death but social death for them.
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Or they could of course grow up realising what nonsense it all is and simply leaving it all behind (as they obviously do, otherwise simple maths would suggest that fundamentalism would be growing exponentially)
 
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