White balance

If all you want is correct white balance, use a piece of clean white card or paper, as described in the handbook.

Not all white paper is absolutely neutral (equal quantities or red, blue and green light) but they will be very close indeed. Not all grey cards are neutral either ;)

Edit: ExposDisc is a total rip off. It's for people that believe there's some kind of expensive magic involved, which there isn't.
 
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I have white balance set to auto at all times unless I'm looking for a particular effect and then adjust by eye in Lightroom.

The only correct white balance is the one that looks right and no gadget or setting at time of capture will be able to judge that.
 
HoppyUK said:
Edit: ExposDisc is a total rip off. It's for people that believe there's some kind of expensive magic involved, which there isn't.
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Total rubbish. I've used my expodisc (bought before they were available in the UK) when nothing else would give a correct WB.

Another photographer I know has a problem with red haired ladies. The shadow under the nose always appeared with slight reddish tint. Although his customers never noticed it annoyed him like hell. Tried everything he could think of and nothing cured it. Told him to try my Expodisc and bingo! problem solved. There are a few other instances the Expodisc has provided a quick solution and with it being the size of a filter very easy to carry around.

Yes its not cheap but to call it a total rip off is just talking rubbish.
 
snapzz said:
Total rubbish. I've used my expodisc (bought before they were available in the UK) when nothing else would give a correct WB.

Another photographer I know has a problem with red haired ladies. The shadow under the nose always appeared with slight reddish tint. Although his customers never noticed it annoyed him like hell. Tried everything he could think of and nothing cured it. Told him to try my Expodisc and bingo! problem solved. There are a few other instances the Expodisc has provided a quick solution and with it being the size of a filter very easy to carry around.

Yes its not cheap but to call it a total rip off is just talking rubbish.
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I've had problems with redheads a few times - can't say that an expodisc would have helped though:)
 
I find setting "sunny" (5200k) seems to work best for outdoor shots irrespective of cloud or shade levels. For some reason setting "cloudy" (6000k) or shade (8000k) seems to result in very "warm" looking shots even if it is cloudy or in shade.
 
snapzz said:
Total rubbish. I've used my expodisc (bought before they were available in the UK) when nothing else would give a correct WB.

Another photographer I know has a problem with red haired ladies. The shadow under the nose always appeared with slight reddish tint. Although his customers never noticed it annoyed him like hell. Tried everything he could think of and nothing cured it. Told him to try my Expodisc and bingo! problem solved. There are a few other instances the Expodisc has provided a quick solution and with it being the size of a filter very easy to carry around.

Yes its not cheap but to call it a total rip off is just talking rubbish.
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It's a total rip-off.
 
I use a lastolite tribalance for portaits and find it really useful to get correct wb I think it was well worth the money.
 
Personally I use an Expodisk for general work, and a Minolta Colour Meter where the colour rendition has to be pretty much perfect.

It's a total rip-off.
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Whatever I use or dont, emotive and unnecessarily aggressive posting such as this I find totally childish. A bit like when my kids were very young.. repeat it many times and it must be true.
 
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We use a grey card when out and about. I have to say we find its gets you pretty close but we more often than not tweak to get the look we want in Lightroom. In the studio we set the camera to the colour temporature the manufaturer says the lights put out but even then it can be a touch out so we also take a test shot of a grey card.

Grey cards only cost about £10 and we have had a lot of success with them, especially in the studio.

The hardest bit outside the studio is the ability for the temperature to change so it can mean a lot of sample shots as lighting changes, you change location and set up etc etc.

That said its worth it. Having the test shot with a grey card really speeds up PP.

We are firm believers though that photography is art and as such the final product tends to be a mix of the most accurate PP setting we can get and what looks right to the eye and reflects the look we are going for.

A lot of waffle but in a nutshell get a grey card! lol.
 
HoppyUK said:
It's a total rip-off.
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Unfortunately everybody is entitled to an opinion but opinions are not fact. A person hoping to help or educate others would have validated their opinion with an alternative that they feel is not a total rip-off. What we have here is an unsubstantiated opinion that neither helps or informs the OP.

To be a total rip-off it would need to not work.

FACT, it works.
FACT, there are alternatives, some of which are cheaper.

The idea that there is no need for custom white balance and that one of the auto or fixed settings always works is also inaccurate. The idea that you can pre-set the balance means you get the white balance you want.

Mike
 
Jerm said:
Personally I use an Expodisk for general work, and a Minolta Colour Meter where the colour rendition has to be pretty much perfect.


Whatever I use or dont, emotive and unnecessarily aggressive posting such as this I find totally childish. A bit like when my kids were very young.. repeat it many times and it must be true.
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My response was an honest statement. It was made, again, in respose to an emotive and aggressive post that said I was talking rubbish, and I am not.

mike weeks said:
Unfortunately everybody is entitled to an opinion but opinions are not fact. A person hoping to help or educate others would have validated their opinion with an alternative that they feel is not a total rip-off. What we have here is an unsubstantiated opinion that neither helps or informs the OP.

To be a total rip-off it would need to not work.

FACT, it works.
FACT, there are alternatives, some of which are cheaper.

The idea that there is no need for custom white balance and that one of the auto or fixed settings always works is also inaccurate. The idea that you can pre-set the balance means you get the white balance you want.

Mike
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Mike, did you read my reply in post #4?

And I didn't say the ExpoDisc doesn't work, I just said it's a rip-off. And IMHO, for a piece of fancy plastic costing £70 when all you need is a piece of white paper, that's a fair description.

All you need is a neutral target (equal quantities of red, blue and green) and that can be white or any shade of grey. White is recommended by camera manufacturers because it's less likely to be skewed by noise. I actually use a Kodak 90% white card that is guaranteed neutral, though I find normal white paper is extremely close if not identical (and just as close as the several grey cards I've tried, which also vary slightly).

There is nothing remotely difficult about getting accurate white balance, nor any expensive tools required.
 
I read your post and I stand by my comments, to be a total rip-off it would not work, but it does, so whilst you may not be happy with the pricing your original posting was neither helpful or informative. Arguing that other peoples postings are emotive and aggresive ( I do not believe they were ) as a way to justify your own comments is also of no help.

Mike
 
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HoppyUK said:
My response was an honest statement. It was made, again, in respose to an emotive and aggressive post that said I was talking rubbish, and I am not.
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Nothing aggressive just an honest comment about a comment.

HoppyUK said:
And I didn't say the ExpoDisc doesn't work, I just said it's a rip-off. And IMHO, for a piece of fancy plastic costing £70 when all you need is a piece of white paper, that's a fair description.
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Except for when the "piece of white paper" doesnt provide the correct reading or under difficult lighting conditions it just useless. See examples of ExpoDisc below:

This is a part image showing the effect of the ambient lighting.
Test01.jpg


Same venue using ExpoDisc for custom WB.
Test02.jpg
 
snapzz said:
Total rubbish. I've used my expodisc (bought before they were available in the UK) when nothing else would give a correct WB.
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The concept of a 'correct' white balance is fundamentally flawed - there's no such thing, in the same way as there is no 'correct' aperture or shutter speed.

Photography is part art, and therefore there is a huge amount of subjective interpretation involved. What might be the technically accurate white balance is not necessarily the right one for the photographer to achieve the desired result.

There are so many variables involved, such as the colour and reflective qualities of surfaces or multiple light sources, that getting the white balance 'right' for one part of the image can adversely affect one or more parts of the photo.

Even if you were to have a totally contained shoot where all light was of an even colour temperature all across the board, the photographer can't control the light in which the photograph is viewed afterwards which will affect the way it looks.

For any photographer shooting everyday raw files, the auto white balance on most cameras these days will get their images there or thereabouts and most will only need a small tweak in Lightroom to get the most pleasing look.

For photographers shooting with multiple light sources across a wide range of colour temperatures, using a white or grey card will again get them in the right region.

Where the Expodisc comes in, would be in a situation where a photographer would be shooting jpegs and having to wire them straight away. In this instance, I can see the value of an Expodisc, but for everyone else I'd say it was a waste of money.
 
It's an interesting contradiction that, since the colour of an object is the colour of the light reflected from it, that strictly speaking, the uncorrected Raw file is the only technically 'correct' one.

However, it often doesn't look that way when printed out and viewed under different light, so we take daylight as the standard reference and attempt to re-balance everything for that. Sometimes that doesn't look right either, like a sunset, candle light and other situations where a lot of red/orange looks more normal.

To which you can only conclude, correct white balance is the one that 'looks best' under the particular shooting and viewing conditions. And there is also an element of subjectivity in the interpretation of that.

To the ExpoDisc users, what special property does it have that makes it better than anything else?
 
HoppyUK said:
It's an interesting contradiction that, since the colour of an object is the colour of the light reflected from it, that strictly speaking, the uncorrected Raw file is the only technically 'correct' one.

However, it often doesn't look that way when printed out and viewed under different light, so we take daylight as the standard reference and attempt to re-balance everything for that. Sometimes that doesn't look right either, like a sunset, candle light and other situations where a lot of red/orange looks more normal.

To which you can only conclude, correct white balance is the one that 'looks best' under the particular shooting and viewing conditions. And there is also an element of subjectivity in the interpretation of that.

To the ExpoDisc users, what special property does it have that makes it better than anything else?
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There is no argument from me with the above and in many cases photographer do try to achieve that "atmospheric" look. However I can only quote instances were the ExpoDisc has proved its worth and I could not achieved the necessary WB without it. For me it is £70 well spent and would not attend an indoor event without it.
 
snapzz said:
There is no argument from me with the above and in many cases photographer do try to achieve that "atmospheric" look. However I can only quote instances were the ExpoDisc has proved its worth and I could not achieved the necessary WB without it. For me it is £70 well spent and would not attend an indoor event without it.
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Okay, it works - no question about that. ExposDisc also make a portrait version, which is slightly blue to give a warm tint to the white balance, which makes the point about what looks best isn't necessarily correct.

But the question remains, what makes the ExpoDisc worth £70? If it's the incident method of taking a reading, by pointing the camera at the light source instead of a neutral reflective target, then that's just a different way of working.

You can replicate that by putting a sheet of paper over the lens. Or use one of those translucent lens cap jobbies for a fiver off the bay. Same difference.
 
I'm not sure how it works (suppose I could find out if I wanted) only know it works in the situations I find myself in and a sheet of paper doesnt. The translucent caps and the old Pringles lids did a similar job and I guess the eye couldnt tell the difference, but again in situations as I have demonstrated above the ExpoDisk certainly does work and for me is the difference between able to do a job or go home! As a working pro I have to be able to conquer these obsticles so again "waste of money?" no way, worth its weight in gold!
 
Yeah, it's discussions like that that stopped me visiting this site for a while.

Anybody want to tell me how much I wasted on my colour checker passport?

If you're looking for ballpark colour then pretty much anything will do including t-shirts, copier paper, coffee filters and Pringle lids (before they changed them). If you want accurate colour then you want something that's accurate.

The "unique feature" of the Expodisc that makes them "worth" 70 quid is that they are pretty close to spot on. Just consider whether that' worth 70 quid to you or not. You might also choose to pay more for convenience, ease of use or simply because you like the brand.

At the end of the day, for some people, 70 quid more charged on a job isn't a lot.
 
JonathanRyan said:
The "unique feature" of the Expodisc that makes them "worth" 70 quid is that they are pretty close to spot on..
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A sheet of white paper is also "pretty close to spot on" .. can anyone show me the difference between WB using a 70 quid piece of plastic labled Expodisc and a white sheet of paper? If there is no difference then surely a "total rip off" is a fair although techincally over the top description..
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yeah, it's discussions like that that stopped me visiting this site for a while.
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Unfortunately the Internet attracts a lot of experts to a platform where they can give everybody else the benefit of their wisdom.

1. Anything is only worth what you are prepared to pay for it.

2. What is essential is if it can do what it says, and at least we are reaching agreement on that.

3. As to if there is a correct white balance the answer is that there is one, it is the one that you want.

4. All that these tools do is help you achieve the white balance you want.

5. Having a custom white balance when shooting in RAW enables you to get a possible setting far quicker than any other adjustment. It is not just something you do when shooting JPEG only.

Why do I use the Lastolite Ezybalance which is a reflective measurement in preference to an incident measurement? Simply that I feel it helps when working in environments where I may also get a lot of relective colour such as from wallpaper, something you get at a lot of venues.

Mike
 
KIPAX said:
A sheet of white paper is also "pretty close to spot on" .. can anyone show me the difference between WB using a 70 quid piece of plastic labled Expodisc and a white sheet of paper? If there is no difference then surely a "total rip off" is a fair although techincally over the top description..
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Very few pieces of white paper are actually white or opaque so they have a colour cast and allow colour casts through. If this will cause issues in a final print is a different matter but when shooting product and colour match is essential then the piece of white paper will be found to be lacking.

Mike
 
KIPAX said:
A sheet of white paper is also "pretty close to spot on" .. can anyone show me the difference between WB using a 70 quid piece of plastic labled Expodisc and a white sheet of paper? If there is no difference then surely a "total rip off" is a fair although techincally over the top description..
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By "pretty close to spot on" I meant that they hand measure every one to check that it's within engineering tolerances of the neutral point they want. Nothing is perfectly neutral but it's pretty close.

BTW when I was rebranding I remember laying out about 20 pieces of white paper on my desk to pick a corporate stock. All different brands. ALL different shades of white.
 
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