White Backgrounds in a limited space

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Tunbridge

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So there is always a lot of discussion on here about getting a white background, you know the thread, I want to do white backgrounds but I’m going to do it in a shoe cupboard with one flash head…


I’ve been trying to do this in a space much bigger than a shoe cupboard with 3 heads for quite a while and all I know is that I still don’t have enough space to do it properly but I’d like to think I can do an alright job with the limitations I have. Far from perfect but acceptable amateur stuff.


So here is an example for all those people who are trying to do this but failing.


A bit of background…


I have 3 flash heads (all bought 2nd hand, 2 x Lencarta 300w Elite Pro’s and 1 original series smart flash). and a 5.2m long space.

All of the following were lit with the smart flash firing through a 120cm Bessel octobox and the elite pro’s lighting the background (one each side).

Both the background lights are fitted with Lencarta background reflectors and I’ve found these invaluable when working with limited space. Ultimately what I’m trying to do is still compromised by the space I have but they help enormously in controlling the light I throw onto the background. I can put the background lights much closer to the background while still achieving a reasonably even light, without having to turn them up too high and spilling light onto the back of the subject. Previous attempts using either the standard reflectors or umbrellas to light the background produced very poor results with loads of spill onto the back of the subject.


Here are my working distances:

Background to Background Lights < 1m

Background to Subject = approx. 2m (not enough but all I have)

Background to camera = 4.2m


And another major problem, a ceiling height of 2.8m (painted white of course as the Mrs won’t let me paint the kitchen / dinner black!)


Bare in mind that after being lucky enough to attend one of Garry Edwards lighting workshops I seem to remember being told that you need something in the region of 7m between background and subject to do this well, something the average TP member attempting this at home is never likely to have.


So here are the results, The Smartflash 200 is firing at ¾ power through the soft box (camera left) with a bit of fill from a reflector (camera right). Both background lights are Elite Pro 300w firing at ½ power.


Now here’s the thing, strictly speaking the background lights should have been turned up higher, the keen eyed will notice that in the unedited shots the backgrounds are not blown out. In the space I had, blowing out the background simply resulted in loads of spill from the background onto the back of the subject, resulting in loss of detail around the edges, particularly the hair.

In the end I opted for not blowing the background and doing a bit of PP to get the background properly white, this was generally pushing the background 1-3 stops. This was done in LR and I could have done a better job if I’d spend more time, but the point is that a quick fix later was better than loads of light spill which couldn’t be so easily fixed.


So here are the results…


Unedited photo…

Thomas-unedited by Tunbridge Wells, on Flickr

Same photo with a quick edit to lift the background approx. 1 stops

Thomas-edited by Tunbridge Wells, on Flickr

Unedited photo…

Hannah-uneditted by Tunbridge Wells, on Flickr

Same photo with a quick edit to lift the background approx. 3 stops

Hannah-editted by Tunbridge Wells, on Flickr

An idea of the set up…

Studio-setup by Tunbridge Wells, on Flickr

What we’ve learned…

Doing white background in your home is always a compromise. You will never have enough space between the background and the subject and your ceiling will probably be too low and painted nice reflective white.

Not going to crazy with the amount of light you throw at the background is usually the best idea if you don’t have the space. I still have spill even with a reasonable large space and the lights turned down low.

Moral of the story…use a nice grey background and save yourself a lot of pain (or spend some money on a Lastolite HiLite). If only my Mrs would listen!
 
Well... as you're only doing upper body shots and those are double doors you could turn that setup around and take your subject, the octa and reflector outside and voila you have enough space! ;)
 
Moral of the story…Mrs: listen!
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;)

For small spaces the Lastolite is worth the investment (in new shoes and handbags)
 
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simonbarker said:
Well... as you're only doing upper body shots and those are double doors you could turn that setup around and take your subject, the octa and reflector outside and voila you have enough space! ;)
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Very true, however it rained all day yesterday! A wet and horrible bank holiday Friday here on Teesside!
Generally speaking if the weather is warm enough and dry enough to have those doors fully open I wouldn't be getting the studio lights out, I tend to use it as a rainy day photography thing.
 
shreds said:
;)

For small spaces the Lastolite is worth the investment (in new shoes and handbags)
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I've not used one but they look excellent, there has just always been something else I've wanted more when I had the money available.

Also forgot to mention, for reference/scale the background I was using is a 2.7m wide paper roll.
 
All the info and additional shots are very useful......thanks. Just love it when proper explanation of shots is given in a post.
 
I'm not entirely sure why people insist on white background anyway. I've never been a fan. The fact that it is a hassle to set up is only part of it. I much prefer greys and gradients, but that's just me.
 
Easy to "change" the colour with a white and suitable gels or intensity of lighting etc.

Even to grey !

White and hi-key have been popular choices in recent times but fashions change.
 
I think you've done well here, and it's a very helpful explanation too.
And I think that your approach of getting the background 'nearly' white and then using PP to finish it off is very much the right one.
Tunbridge said:
Bare in mind that after being lucky enough to attend one of Garry Edwards lighting workshops I seem to remember being told that you need something in the region of 7m between background and subject to do this well, something the average TP member attempting this at home is never likely to have.
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My "7 metre" bit is really a counsel of perfection, it isn't always achievable. I have a friend, a top French fashion photographer, who flatly refuses to shoot against a white background unless he has at least 7 metres of separation, but personally that's just the figure that I aim for - although my current studio, at 17m, is long enough to give me this plus another 10m of shooting distance (which is usually enough not to have to worry about perspective distortion 'narrowing' the background.
I'm not a great fan of either white or black backgrounds because they lack depth, I basically use either when I have to, and there are still quite a few people who like them, so needs must.

shreds said:
;)

For small spaces the Lastolite is worth the investment (in new shoes and handbags)
Click to expand...
The Lastolite Hi-Lite is very space efficient, but IMO only allows white background shots to be done badly in a smaller space than is otherwise possible - but that's really just my definition of 'badly' - some people think it's OK to lose contrast, lose edge definition and get wrap on the sides of faces etc - just because I don't find any of those things acceptable doesn't mean that it's wrong.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I think you've done well here, and it's a very helpful explanation too.
And I think that your approach of getting the background 'nearly' white and then using PP to finish it off is very much the right one.
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Thanks, I've learned a lot on here, more than anywhere else on the web so I'm more than happy to try and help others. Plus this is something that does come up reasonably often and is hard to get right. I think the problem is that most people new to this just don't get how much more difficult this is to do well with limited resources (in particular space).



Garry Edwards said:
My "7 metre" bit is really a counsel of perfection, it isn't always achievable.
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I always aim for perfection, however it will never be achievable in the space I have. Guess its all about knowing your limitations. I wish I'd done a few shots where I had deliberately over cooked the background and got loads of wrap around light on the subject as they would have been a great example of how not to do it, but my models time is very expensive and I simply can't afford the additional bribes it would have cost me to get some 'bad' shots. I suspect trying to explain to my daughter that I was deliberately getting it wrong to help others would have fallen on deaf ears!



Garry Edwards said:
I'm not a great fan of either white or black backgrounds because they lack depth
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Theres not been a lot of love on here for white backgrounds, and although they aren't my favourite I don't mind them provided I can do them my way and keep them as interesting as a white background shot can be. Plus if I'm going to talk the Mrs into taking over the whole of the back of the house to turn it into my personnel play space I at least need to produce something she likes! At the moment the white backgrounds still seem fashionable but I'm sure that will change sooner or later.
 
shreds said:
Easy to "change" the colour with a white and suitable gels or intensity of lighting etc.
Click to expand...

True but even easier to just have the right coloured background. I have a few but it always tends to be the grey that gets the most use.
 
My post in this thread might help? https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/corporate-portrait-preferred-lighting-setup.584327/

especially for upper body shots, you've got more than enough space. Make sure to flag off the back lights, eg with a big card sheet, and a bigger spread from background lights is better - I'm dubious to the spread from background reflectors. Ideally, in a big studio, the best way is often to fire two heads, one high and one low down, into a 'v' shape made from big polystyrene boards - really huge soft sources, as you walk across the background a light meter will give a completely even reading

Also, please do try not lighting the background, unlit grey can be so flexible and look great
 
itsdavedotnet said:
My post in this thread might help? https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/corporate-portrait-preferred-lighting-setup.584327/

especially for upper body shots, you've got more than enough space. Make sure to flag off the back lights, eg with a big card sheet, and a bigger spread from background lights is better - I'm dubious to the spread from background reflectors. Ideally, in a big studio, the best way is often to fire two heads, one high and one low down, into a 'v' shape made from big polystyrene boards - really huge soft sources, as you walk across the background a light meter will give a completely even reading

Also, please do try not lighting the background, unlit grey can be so flexible and look great
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave, I'd already read that thread and found it useful. I keep meaning to build myself some flags but have never got round to it. I do like the idea of the v shape out of the poly sheets as I can see this would reflect less light onto the back of the subject.
The thing I like about the 2.7m wide white paper is that it gives a lot more flexibility for the kids to move about. The downside is that it's just more white to reflect unwanted light. I do have a 1.2m wide role of white paper that I tend to use if I'm just doing head shots and find that helps.
 
Tunbridge said:
That is a compact setup and I've never used my 120cm octo as a hilite before, mainly as I need it as my main subject light most of the time. I might give it a go though.
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Yeah, that was my first time doing it too! Works great (IMHO) for headshots!

Might incorporate it into my workflow - use the octa as a key light for a set of shots, then use it as a background. Minimal fuss setting it up I reckon.
 
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