Which part of this is Health.........

words fail me!!!! :shake:
 
Unfortunately its the world we now live in. If they had attempted a rescue
and something went wrong, and it was proved in a court that the equipment
used was not fit for purpose, they'd have been sued into outer space..

Its very sad the woman died, in life and death situations H&S laws should not
count in my opinion...



.
 
Rob_W said:
Unfortunately its the world we now live in. If they had attempted a rescue
and something went wrong, and it was proved in a court that the equipment
used was not fit for purpose, they'd have been sued into outer space..

Its very sad the woman died, in life and death situations H&S laws should not
count in my opinion...



.
Click to expand...

Reading the article is even more shocking as it clearly states that the equipment was for saving them, not members of the public so the equipment was more than capable of being fit for purpose or they wouldn't be able to use it on themselves...

The H&S and the PC community in the country have gone mad! I know of one motor dealership that can no longer put up any christmas decorations as it would offend the local residents who are not originally from the UK!! Personally I would say stuff them, if you don;t like the way we live over here don't move here...

Don't get me wrong I have no problems with anyone moving to the UK if they're going to pull there weight but when they move over and expect us to change the way we do things we should be able to ship them back....

Oooppsss went on a bit of an off topic rant, apologies :)
 
Can`t think of anything pleasant to say about that Graham, not very good,is it?
 
MY god.............what are we coming to when we are told we cant help some one, this country should be ashamed of itself
 
Doesnt it make us feel proud living in this country...............NOT
 
Its getting worse, it really is.
Health and safety has a time and a place and its there to save, but this is just blatant stupidity.
I really feel for the firemen, imagine what they must have been going through knowing that they could have saved this woman as soon as they got there.

Spike
 
I bet if the person involved was a disabled, unemployed imigrant they would have been helped immediately incase of any backlash!
 
we are the laughing stock of Europe if not the world!

We used to laugh at the Americans Suing for everything and anything, we are now worse than they!
 
Total madness! ..... However, I suspect that ruling is by the fire service themselves and has little to do with the HSE.
 
Things like this make me feel ashamed to be English.
 
gus607 said:
Things like this make me feel ashamed to be English.
Click to expand...

And makes me want to sell up and get out of this country. God help our children and grandchildren. :thumbsdown:
That poor womans family. Its a complete disgrace.



Kev.
 
I had a H & S inspection last year without warning. The only thing she could find was that the latex gloves the lads in the workshop wear, are powder coated.
They COULD become allergic to the powder!!! :bang::bang:
I give up. :(
She wasn't impressed when I asked if she was from 'the business prevention' department.



Kev.
 
kevshore said:
I had a H & S inspection last year without warning. The only thing she could find was that the latex gloves the lads in the workshop wear, are powder coated.
They COULD become allergic to the powder!!! :bang::bang:
I give up. :(
She wasn't impressed when I asked if she was from 'the business prevention' department.



Kev.
Click to expand...

the latex thing is comon, we are offered both at work. I prefer the powered personally, but the reaction if you become allergic can be deadly to some.
 
While we all tut and laugh at it, H&S is important. In this case the article says she had a heart attack on the way up, it's possible that she'd have had the attack even if she'd been lifted by the fire brigade earlier. In that situation, the brigade and those fighters who attended would have been held responsible because the equipment used was not safe for use by untrained people. The guys on the scene would all have wanted to help her but none of them would have wanted to end up in jail for causing her death.
It's very easy to sit at home and pass judgement on things like this when we are never going to be held responsible.

I was on a H&S course the other week, I have to say I was shocked at the level of responsibility that I have just going about my daily job and I'm at the bottom of the chain as far as that is concerned.
 
Steep said:
While we all tut and laugh at it, H&S is important. In this case the article says she had a heart attack on the way up, it's possible that she'd have had the attack even if she'd been lifted by the fire brigade earlier. In that situation, the brigade and those fighters who attended would have been held responsible because the equipment used was not safe for use by untrained people. The guys on the scene would all have wanted to help her but none of them would have wanted to end up in jail for causing her death.
It's very easy to sit at home and pass judgement on things like this when we are never going to be held responsible.

I was on a H&S course the other week, I have to say I was shocked at the level of responsibility that I have just going about my daily job and I'm at the bottom of the chain as far as that is concerned.
Click to expand...

Very true, but H&S is only any good if the people make the rules have proper experiance of the job in hand, theres cases at work where things have been put in place, that actually make the job less safe as there ill thought out by some assuming the old way was dangerious!.

But how can something (equipment or procedure) be safe to use for firefighters, but not general public. :thinking:
 
All this *******s started with Free lawyers which came about because of a change of law by the government.

now somebody cuts their finger and the suey because it's risk free.

In the past it would have been, yes we can sue but it'll cost you £2000 and we might not win so they didn't do it.
 
pete you might recall this from last year

humberside firebrigade were install smoke alarms into elderly peoples homes

half way through the year the had to stop as the ladders were considered too dangerous to use as the fire fighters were above 6ft when installing the free smoke alarms that could potentially save lifes

what a joke there trying to save lifes but cant

what is this country coming too
 
My brother in law was a maintenance electrician for a large brewery, he had a memo come round that said he wasn't allowed to work on live electrics as it was too dangerous

Bloody fantastic was his reply because now you'll be paying me for doing nothing all day, why is that, because how the hell am I supposed to find a fault if I can't test it when it's live :bonk:

I thing the HSE guy got a *******ing for that memo
 
All these examples are simply caused by employers / Authorities interpretation of H&S guidance and scaremongering by the media and weakness of insurance companies ... If anyone actually looked into all this? they would find that there are very few laws / rules regarding H&S :thinking: most is just simple guidance and simple common sense :cool: If you were to look into it properly it comes down to one thing ... i.e carry out a risk assessment and do everything practicable to reduce the risk ... The HSE have never said you can't use ladders, have never said kids can't play conkers at school etc... and have never said you can't put yourself into a dangerous situation! ... What they have said is that you should assess the situation and do everything practicable to avoid risk of injury .... if you do as suggested and something bad happens then the HSE would not be able or even want to prosecute.
 
So why dont politicians crack down on this? If Dave Cameron said they will end this rubbish that would be another few points on their poll.

I put this down to the EU - human rights and all that rubbish. The sooner we pull out the better.

If I were this poor woman's family I would sue the pants off the people who did the H&S Audit!
 
I think it is fair to say that most H&S laws are generally sensible - not all, but most. However, the problems come in the interpretation of them by the individuals/companies responsible for applying them [for instance in thise case, WHO exactly decided the equipment was safe enough for a fireman but not a member of the public and sent the memo round?....and WHAT were they thinking?]. Furthermore, that application is rendered even more insane by the fear of being dragged through the courts should someone dare to have an accident.
Who is responsible? Everyone! We live in a blame culture, we allow ambulance chasing lawyers to convince us that it 'is always someone's fault' and nurture the natural greediness of human nature. Basically, NOTHING is actually an accident anymore, because we are being brain washed into believing someone should be blamed and made to pay, to the point where common sense has been killed by suffocation. RIP. :(
 
cambsno said:
So why dont politicians crack down on this? If Dave Cameron said they will end this rubbish that would be another few points on their poll.
Click to expand...

The real problem is that it's the lawyers, barristers Judges et al that actually make the law ..

cambsno said:
If I were this poor woman's family I would sue the pants off the people who did the H&S Audit!
Click to expand...

:agree: and I strongly suspect it would win if the case was heard by and judged by common man ... unfortunately that is unlikely to happen :shake:

Yv said:
I think it is fair to say that most H&S laws are generally sensible - not all, but most. However, the problems come in the interpretation of them by the individuals/companies responsible for applying them [for instance in thise case, WHO exactly decided the equipment was safe enough for a fireman but not a member of the public and sent the memo round?....and WHAT were they thinking?]. Furthermore, that application is rendered even more insane by the fear of being dragged through the courts should someone dare to have an accident.
Who is responsible? Everyone! We live in a blame culture, we allow ambulance chasing lawyers to convince us that it 'is always someone's fault' and nurture the natural greediness of human nature. Basically, NOTHING is actually an accident anymore, because we are being brain washed into believing someone should be blamed and made to pay, to the point where common sense has been killed by suffocation. RIP. :(
Click to expand...

Thanks Yvonne most of that is very true ... however the HSE and Police/CPS do accept that accidents can and do happen without blame ... It really is the lawyers that twist and corrupt the situation for compensation and nice earnings that is the real problem (IMHO) I once witnessed an accident involving a young child killed in a road incident and an elderly couple driving ... which after several months was declared as an accident with no one at fault ... even the parents agreed with this .... accidents do happen!
 
Yv said:
Who is responsible? Everyone! We live in a blame culture....
Click to expand...

Harry S. Truman famously had this sign on his desk

buckstopsherefrontsmall.jpg


if it were to be reinvented for use in modern times the words "anywhere but" would need to be inserted before "here" :shake:
 
We're lucky down here as the local fire service have a specialist rope rescue team.

I've got working at height training and have a full body harness etc. I could also go a stage further and get trained in rope working which includes aerial rescue techniques. This would not help me to rescue a member of the public though as the training is designed to rescue someone already rigged in a harness. I would imagine that the fire service have the same problem.

The real issue here is why weren't personnel trained in rope rescue techniques and issued with the necessary equipment. I feel the guidance was correct but when the guidance was issued someone should have checked whether sticking to it left any shortfalls in the service that could then be given.
 
What people tend to forget/ignore is that The Health and safety at Work Act is LAW, not something that can be ignored when it suits. It is there to protect people, unfortunately it is now used to protect Lawyers wages.

I have a client who had an employee fall off a platform that HE had removed the guard rails from. The employee denied he had removed the rails & claimed for damages...


My clients paid up as they didn't have free lawywers.... :(
 
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