Which entry level flash?

ashishtamhane

ashishtamhane

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Ashish Tamhane
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So this post along with what Sean does in here got me interested and I would like to try out a flash for portraits.

Please suggest entry level flashes for a Nikon D750 and as a stretch if it’s compatible with a Nikon F90x. Budget is around £100.

I would look to shoot mostly indoor at the start. I am unsure if the flash have to be radio triggered?
 
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Hi and welcome to the world of flash photography, you won’t regret it.

Your budget is low for the kind of results you’d want, but if you’re careful there’s bargains to be had.

Those speedlights are a great buy, but they’ll require more spending to get you somewhere.

I think in reality what you want to buy is a flash, a means to trigger it off camera, a stand (and adaptor as stands are designed for studio lights not speedlights) and a softbox or umbrella of some sort.

EBay is full of barely used beginner studio lighting kits, but it’s difficult to know what you’re getting if you’ve not done it before.

I’ll part 2 this in a sec
 
ashishtamhane said:
So this post along with what Sean does in here got me interested and I would like to try out a flash for portraits.

Please suggest entry level flashes for a Nikon D750 and as a stretch if it’s compatible with a Nikon F90x. Budget is around £100.

I would look to shoot mostly indoor at the start. I am unsure if the flash have to be radio triggered?
Click to expand...

Having a flash gun triggered by radio is ideal as most Nikon Flashguns work on a "line of sight" basis . One alternative is wired remote but this too is limiting. The third option is to have one of these of which I have 2 of one being a spare. these would then allow the flashgun to be fired wirelessly.
P1060533.JPG
using Nikon D810 and SB900 flashgun fired by radio signal not line of sight
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SjmojSePv8
 
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ashishtamhane said:
I have shifted to India so can’t buy these.

Would a Godox TT600 Manual Speedlite be sufficient to start off with? I can buy a radio transmitter later on.
Click to expand...
Any transmitter would have to be Nikon compatible to fire off any make of flashgun and also the receiver as well it would have to be a Godox TT600(N) . Then N shows it will work with Nikon
Doing portraits a direct lash from the top of a camera is not a good idea. With a remote flash will bring out facial features better
 
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realspeed said:
Any transmitter would have to be Nikon compatible to fire off any make of flashgun and also the receiver as well it would have to be a Godox TT600(N) . Then N shows it will work with Nikon
Doing portraits a direct lash from the top of a camera is not a good idea. With a remote flash will bring out facial features better
Click to expand...
If it's Godox, then anything that fits on the camera needs to match the camera brand (So a Nikon fit Godox Trigger) but the off-camera unit can be a Godox unit for ANY brand.
For example, you can use a Godox XT1-N (N = Nikon) trigger on a Nikon camera to trigger a Godox V350-S (S = Sony) flash.
That said, it makes sense to get the flash matching your camera brand so you also have the option to mount it on camera.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I have shifted to India so can’t buy these.

Would a Godox TT600 Manual Speedlite be sufficient to start off with? I can buy a radio transmitter later on.
Click to expand...
Go one step at a time.

If you want to learn lighting, it’s exactly what you expect it’ll be.

If you just place a flash atop your camera, the best you can manage is to zoom it to max, and bounce it off a reflector.

What you really need to do, is have absolutely precise placement of the light source. And in this regard the light source would be the softbox, beauty dish, umbrella etc.

And all those things really do work better with a bare bulb than with a speedlight (where the light is already prefocussed into a small beam).

I’ve no idea what the eBay market looks like in India, but that’s where I’d be looking rather than at cheap speedlights if I’m honest.
 
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realspeed said:
Any transmitter would have to be Nikon compatible to fire off any make of flashgun and also the receiver as well it would have to be a Godox TT600(N) . Then N shows it will work with Nikon
Doing portraits a direct lash from the top of a camera is not a good idea. With a remote flash will bring out facial features better
Click to expand...
The TT600 is manual only and is completely brand agnostic.

Also, as has been pointed out, all Godox TTL units are brand agnostic once used off camera. Only the transmitter needs to ‘fit’ the camera.
 
Phil V said:
Go one step at a time.

And all those things really do work better with a bare bulb than with a speedlight (where the light is already prefocussed into a small beam).
Click to expand...
Taking your advice I have ordered a softbox for now. I already have a tripod onto which I will rig up a bare blub and take this ahead. Will try to work within the gear limitations rather than opting for a flashlight as you said.
 
ashishtamhane said:
Taking your advice I have ordered a softbox for now. I already have a tripod onto which I will rig up a bare blub and take this ahead. Will try to work within the gear limitations rather than opting for a flashlight as you said.
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What do you mean a ‘softbox’
Please tell me you haven ordered one of those junk things with fluorescent bulbs
 
I'd look to see what is available in India and still compatible with the F90x, and that might be compatible with the D750. Might not work the other way round.
 
ashishtamhane said:
A Godox SB-GUE80?
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Looks good for portraits. You will need a studio flash for best results, an ordinary camera flashgun won't output enough light I don't think. Oh, and a stand that won't fall over too.
 
ashishtamhane said:
A Godox SB-GUE80?
Click to expand...
Good softbox.
What are you thinking of lighting it with?

As per my previous post, you still need
A light stand
A trigger or sync cable (wireless trigger is best)
Either
A speedlight and bracket or
A Bowen’s mount studio flash
 
Phil V said:
Good softbox.
What are you thinking of lighting it with?

As per my previous post, you still need
A light stand
A trigger or sync cable (wireless trigger is best)
Either
A speedlight and bracket or
A Bowen’s mount studio flash
Click to expand...

I already have a stand for a continuous light. Will start off with an incandescent light blub and see where that takes me.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I already have a stand for a continuous light. Will start off with an incandescent light blub and see where that takes me.
Click to expand...
It won't take you anywhere, a complete waste of time, effort and money. You need a studio flash head (ideal) or a flashgun (2nd best).
 
Garry Edwards said:
It won't take you anywhere, a complete waste of time, effort and money. You need a studio flash head (ideal) or a flashgun (2nd best).
Click to expand...
I have to disagree... light is light and it doesn't much matter what the source is. I get the point; I would never recommend someone go buy one of those kinds of kits. But I don't have any issue with using what you've got if it can get the job done.
Rather curious as to how it would be adapted to a Bowens mount softbox though...

When it comes to the various forms of constant light (sun, incandescent, led, etc); they have the advantage of being WYSIWYG, having a very low learning curve, and minimal cost (if on-hand). The disadvantages are that they have low flexibility, usability, control; or very high cost.
Flash is rather the opposite...
 
sk66 said:
I have to disagree... light is light and it doesn't much matter what the source is.
Click to expand...
Fair point, but within limits.

The old technology of fluorescent is perhaps obsolete for good reasons - very low output, no power adjustment, physically very fragile, physically very large, and a discontinuous spectrum light that cannot possibly reproduce all colours accurately.

sk66 said:
Rather curious as to how it would be adapted to a Bowens mount softbox though...
Click to expand...
It won't
 
I bought a soft box almost exactly like yours, this is a photo I took using it. If you download the photo and look at the eyes you can clearly see the soft box I used in them. The softbox was very close to the subject, about 2ft away and I used a cheapish second hand off ebay studio flash of 250Watts power namely a Neewer F250 w Photography Studio Strobe Flash.

IMG_0004 by Stephen, on Flickr
 
I gave away my studio flashes about 8 years ago, so can't look for details.

I did not have brand specific radio triggers, all the cameras I had used the centre hot shoe pin to fire the flash, which was the only function I wanted them to do.

I then moved to "magic eye" triggers that used the flash from one light to trigger the others. (the big lights had that facility built in)

I also had quite a lot of flashes that looked like a large screw in light bulb for fill in, back drop lighting, hair lights etc.

It all worked well enough for me, but no doubt it would not suit the experts. One of my frustrations was the low ceilings in most UK houses. (and the lack of storage space for all the stands, softboxes, umbrellas reflectors etc)

The one thing I found essential mainly due to time saving was a Seconic L 308S meter, which I found in a box a few months back and now use for film, I had forgotten it was also an ordinary light meter :)

If I wanted to use anything again on a low budget, I think I would get one inexpensive studio flash, that could be triggered by another flash, with stand and accessories, some styrofoam and crumpled foam reflectors, and a couple of small flashes with light triggers, and build up from there.


My first set up consisted of car headlight bulbs mounted in baby milk tins, with various home made reflectors and diffusers. My ambitions hugely outstripped my apprentice pay, but I got results :)
 
Garry Edwards said:
It won't take you anywhere, a complete waste of time, effort and money. You need a studio flash head (ideal) or a flashgun (2nd best).
Click to expand...
Yeah I get it that the light power will not be enough and I will probably get very dark photos. It will be a start though.

Fixer said:
I bought a soft box almost exactly like yours, this is a photo I took using it. If you download the photo and look at the eyes you can clearly see the soft box I used in them. The softbox was very close to the subject, about 2ft away and I used a cheapish second hand off ebay studio flash of 250Watts power namely a Neewer F250 w Photography Studio Strobe Flash.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the photo. I now know what to expect from my high tech setup! ;)

I am looking at a cheaper Godox TT520ii. Need to watch some YouTube reviews on the same.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I am looking at a cheaper Godox TT520ii. Need to watch some YouTube reviews on the same.
Click to expand...
If you’re buying something for the softbox, just buy a studio head. You ‘can’ use a speedlight in a small softbox, but you also need to buy a bracket, and the results just aren’t as good.

A speedlight has a built in reflector and fresnel lens that is specifically designed to focus the light into a narrow beam.
A softbox is designed to modify the light from a scattered source (a bare bulb) and create a large panel of light. Your softbox has a built in Bowen’s (S type) Mount.

I appreciate you’re not in the U.K., so these prices can’t be compared precisely,
TT520 - £50
S type speedlight bracket - £24

So for £74 you get a secure system that’ll attach to a lightstand and gives you about 50Ws of flash, that’s not designed to be used in a softbox, very slow recycling times and no modelling light. And I haven’t included decent batteries and charger.

Or for £107 you can buy a Godox 300Ws flash that is designed to be used in a softbox, Bowens mount, with much faster recycling times and a modelling light.

And as per my first post, shop around on eBay and you’ll find a barely used studio head a lot cheaper than that.

edit to add In the U.K. there are literally dozens of Bowen’s mount flashes for around £50 on eBay. I’d guess the same is true in India
 
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ashishtamhane said:
Yeah I get it that the light power will not be enough and I will probably get very dark photos. It will be a start though.



Thanks for the photo. I now know what to expect from my high tech setup! ;)

I am looking at a cheaper Godox TT520ii. Need to watch some YouTube reviews on the same.
Click to expand...
You won't get dark photos, you'll just get bad photos. Increasing the ISO dramatically, using a very wide aperture and a very slow shutter speed will address the lack of power issue.
Sangoma said:
I gave away my studio flashes about 8 years ago, so can't look for details.

I did not have brand specific radio triggers, all the cameras I had used the centre hot shoe pin to fire the flash, which was the only function I wanted them to do.

I then moved to "magic eye" triggers that used the flash from one light to trigger the others. (the big lights had that facility built in)

I also had quite a lot of flashes that looked like a large screw in light bulb for fill in, back drop lighting, hair lights etc.

It all worked well enough for me, but no doubt it would not suit the experts. One of my frustrations was the low ceilings in most UK houses. (and the lack of storage space for all the stands, softboxes, umbrellas reflectors etc)

The one thing I found essential mainly due to time saving was a Seconic L 308S meter, which I found in a box a few months back and now use for film, I had forgotten it was also an ordinary light meter :)

If I wanted to use anything again on a low budget, I think I would get one inexpensive studio flash, that could be triggered by another flash, with stand and accessories, some styrofoam and crumpled foam reflectors, and a couple of small flashes with light triggers, and build up from there.


My first set up consisted of car headlight bulbs mounted in baby milk tins, with various home made reflectors and diffusers. My ambitions hugely outstripped my apprentice pay, but I got results :)
Click to expand...
We've all been there, done that and learned from it. What I think we're trying to do here, with the OP, is to make his/her life area by avoiding the purchase of unsuitable gear.

As for not suiting the experts, some people will think that I'm an expert because I spent most of my long working life as a specialist in lighting. My view is that an expert can use skill and knowledge when the equipment is unsuitable, it's beginners who need the right gear.

My definition of an expert . . .

X = an unknown quantity
spurt = a drip under pressure
:)

Phil V said:
If you’re buying something for the softbox, just buy a studio head. You ‘can’ use a speedlight in a small softbox, but you also need to buy a bracket, and the results just aren’t as good.

A speedlight has a built in reflector and fresnel lens that is specifically designed to focus the light into a narrow beam.
A softbox is designed to modify the light from a scattered source (a bare bulb) and create a large panel of light. Your softbox has a built in Bowen’s (S type) Mount.

I appreciate you’re not in the U.K., so these prices can’t be compared precisely,
TT520 - £50
S type speedlight bracket - £24

So for £74 you get a secure system that’ll attach to a lightstand and gives you about 50Ws of flash, that’s not designed to be used in a softbox, very slow recycling times and no modelling light. And I haven’t included decent batteries and charger.

Or for £107 you can buy a Godox 300Ws flash that is designed to be used in a softbox, Bowens mount, with much faster recycling times and a modelling light.

And as per my first post, shop around on eBay and you’ll find a barely used studio head a lot cheaper than that.

edit to add In the U.K. there are literally dozens of Bowen’s mount flashes for around £50 on eBay. I’d guess the same is true in India
Click to expand...
This is the right answer for the OP
 
Phil V said:
I appreciate you’re not in the U.K., so these prices can’t be compared precisely,
TT520 - £50
S type speedlight bracket - £24
Click to expand...
I appreciate you guys helping me with the best equipment but a studio head is a bit outside my budget and frankly, my skills.

So for now I have ordered the below items:

1. Godox TT520ii for 32 GBP
2. Bowens mount for 10 GBP
 
ashishtamhane said:
I appreciate you guys helping me with the best equipment but a studio head is a bit outside my budget and frankly, my skills.

So for now I have ordered the below items:

1. Godox TT520ii for 32 GBP
2. Bowens mount for 10 GBP
Click to expand...
People are often ‘scared’ of leaping to studio heads, but as per Garry’s excellent post, they’re actually easier to use. And as per my post, they do the job better.

The speedlight you’ve bought is underpowered for a speedlight. I haven’t checked the specs but I bet it’s also slow to recycle.

The advice you’re being given isn’t high brow, or designed to confuse, it’s genuine, given to help. It’s the easiest and best way of getting results.
 
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@ashishtamhane

In the interest of full disclosure, if you go look at the ‘lighting challenges’ we have in the lighting section, you’ll see that my entries use a speedlight on a Bowen’s s bracket inside a softbox. And the reason I do this is that it’s the general advice for a ‘step up’ from just a speedlight.

You’ll also see that other people use a mix of all kinds of stuff, but importantly that’s not photographing people, and if someone sets up a light that needs a half second exposure it’s fine when it’s a plant and not a human.

But if you don’t already have a speedlight, and you already have some ideas in mind, the best ‘entry’ into studio portraits is a mains powered studio head you can grow from.

I’d like to convince you to return the speedlight and buy a mains powered light but I don’t think I can.
 
Phil V said:
But if you don’t already have a speedlight, and you already have some ideas in mind, the best ‘entry’ into studio portraits is a mains powered studio head you can grow from.

I’d like to convince you to return the speedlight and buy a mains powered light but I don’t think I can.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are trying to say but I do like to have some form of portability. With the studio head I assume I will need a pretty heavy battery pack too? The flash I can easily stuff in a bag.

Let me start off with this and see what sort of results I get.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I understand what you are trying to say but I do like to have some form of portability. With the studio head I assume I will need a pretty heavy battery pack too? The flash I can easily stuff in a bag.

Let me start off with this and see what sort of results I get.
Click to expand...
I don't know how often we need to say this . . .
A mains flash head is mains powered, no battery pack, it just plugs into the mains.
They aren't big, they are just much better (for most things) than the alternatives, and they are also cheaper.
The days of separate battery packs (except for very demanding pro use) are long gone, where studio flash heads are battery powered they have a built-in rechargeable battery and are little or no bigger/heavier than a mains-powered flash.

Just as an aside, I have an old but very expensive (at the time) Nikon SB-900 flashgun, which I came across in box a couple of days ago. After some soul-searching I finally decided that I WOULD order some rechargeable AA batteries for it, just in case it came in useful, but as I have studio flash it will probably get very little use:)

Nobody is trying to persuade you to spend your money on the right equipment, we're just trying to help you to avoid wasting your time and money on the wrong equipment.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I understand what you are trying to say but I do like to have some form of portability. With the studio head I assume I will need a pretty heavy battery pack too? The flash I can easily stuff in a bag.

Let me start off with this and see what sort of results I get.
Click to expand...


It's surprising the results you can get with a few flash guns and some simple reflectors and diffusers, so yes, give it a try. it may just do all you want, and if it doesn't, it will probably help you decide the way forward.

I have lots of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28544740...OFDGiQMoDaOnwZix4E=|tkp:Bk9SR5b_mN-6ZA&edge=0 and they can be triggered by the on camera flash (as long as it doesn't flash to measure exposure or reduce red eye before the exposure flash)
Stick a white card in front of the on camera flash if you don't want it to affect the subject, and it will still trigger the remotes.

And if you do get a studio flash later, they can be useful for fill in
 
Garry Edwards said:
A mains flash head is mains powered, no battery pack, it just plugs into the mains.
Click to expand...
Aah ok I thought you could convert it to use with a battery pack. I was thinking of some usage of the light source in the outdoors too so I guess this won't do.

Sangoma said:
It's surprising the results you can get with a few flash guns and some simple reflectors and diffusers, so yes, give it a try. it may just do all you want, and if it doesn't, it will probably help you decide the way forward.

And if you do get a studio flash later, they can be useful for fill in
Click to expand...
Exactly my thought process.
 
ashishtamhane said:
Aah ok I thought you could convert it to use with a battery pack. I was thinking of some usage of the light source in the outdoors too so I guess this won't do.


Exactly my thought process.
Click to expand...
Artificial lighting can seem to be incredibly complicated at first, and it doesn't help that if any 2 photographers discuss a subject we always end up with at least 3 different opinions:)

Let us know how you get on, post your results and the collective (if opposing) expertise of this forum will help you to move forward.
Very few of us have had any formal training, we've learned from our mistakes, from trial and error and from each other, and most of us get there in the end.
 
ashishtamhane said:
I understand what you are trying to say but I do like to have some form of portability. With the studio head I assume I will need a pretty heavy battery pack too? The flash I can easily stuff in a bag.

Let me start off with this and see what sort of results I get.
Click to expand...
as Garry says, keep posting and asking questions, it’s the best way to learn.

Re studio heads, they’re generally mains powered at the cheaper end.
For portability, the best port of call would be the Godox AD series, with the AD100 coming in under £200, but it has an odd form factor and is basically the same power as a decent speedlight*. The AD200 is under £300 and fits into your S type adaptor, the power and prices rise from there. And they’re all VERY portable.

But a cheap mains powered head is still absolutely the best bang for buck.

I think I’ve just rationalised my flash gear to the ‘minimum’ I’m happy with.

Leaving me one Speedlight (Godox TT685c, AD200, two DE300 mains powered and a Lencarta Safari2,

That gives me a run and gun speedlight, a v portable bare bulb flash for setting up a quick ‘grab n grin’ scenario, two mains heads for playing at home, sometimes (rarely) used for other bits, and a v powerful flash I can use outside in bright sun (I ‘needed’ this much more than I had a use for it).

They all will work together though, giving me the genuine option of 5 lights. And the mitigation for keeping the very rarely used Safari is that it’s my least used piece of equipment ever, and it’s not earned its keep yet. The modern equivalent would be a Godox AD600BM.

*and as mentioned last week, I’d describe the speedlight you bought as about half a ‘decent’ speedlight.
 
Phil V said:
Leaving me one Speedlight (Godox TT685c, AD200, two DE300 mains powered and a Lencarta Safari2,

That gives me a run and gun speedlight, a v portable bare bulb flash for setting up a quick ‘grab n grin’ scenario, two mains heads for playing at home, sometimes (rarely) used for other bits, and a v powerful flash I can use outside in bright sun (I ‘needed’ this much more than I had a use for it).
Click to expand...
From vague memory, you bought the Safari 2 after helping out on this shoot

it was a cracking light, far better than the one that it replaced
From memory, we used 7 of these flash units on this shoot.

But, technology has now moved on and all that I currently have (or need) is the Visco 5, nearly as good and much smaller/cheaper
 
Garry Edwards said:
From vague memory, you bought the Safari 2 after helping out on this shoot

it was a cracking light, far better than the one that it replaced
Click to expand...
It was certainly around that time.
 
ashishtamhane said:
Aah ok I thought you could convert it to use with a battery pack. I was thinking of some usage of the light source in the outdoors too so I guess this won't do.
Click to expand...
You can buy large battery packs with inverters, but they’re very expensive and battery flashes are therefore much better as they’re lighter / cheaper.
 
ashishtamhane said:
1. Godox TT520ii for 32 GBP
2. Bowens mount for 10 GBP
Click to expand...

Just got the TT520ii delivered today and took some shots with the Nikon D750 and F90x. Happy to report that it works on both with the remote trigger without any issues.

Now to wait for the adapter of the tripod to softbox to arrive.
 
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