What women did in WW2....

[Box Brownie]

.......all too often ignored or airbrushed out of the public acknowledgement. It was a shame on attitudes then and sad, that in all too many ways, (some of?) those attitudes still exist!

Biggin Hill: 'Mum was embarrassed about her WW2 medal'

Elspeth Henderson had mixed feelings about her award for her work during the Battle of Britain. Why?

www.bbc.co.uk

Perhaps the growth and success in Women's football represents a sea change for the future for creating an increasingly fairer society....at least in western cultures?

 

[jakeblu]

We can only live in hope.

 

[sphexx]

.......all too often ignored or airbrushed out of the public acknowledgement. It was a shame on attitudes then and sad, that in all too many ways, (some of?) those attitudes still exist!

Biggin Hill: 'Mum was embarrassed about her WW2 medal'

Elspeth Henderson had mixed feelings about her award for her work during the Battle of Britain. Why?

www.bbc.co.uk

Perhaps the growth and success in Women's football represents a sea change for the future for creating an increasingly fairer society....at least in western cultures?

I wonder which genius decided the operations roomsshould be above ground.

 

[broc]

My wife's great aunt was a welder in Portsmouth Naval dockyard during WWII, after the war she was 'sacked' so a man could have the job. She became a school cook. We knew nothing about the welding job until it was mentioned at her funeral.

 

[Suvv]

They actually let married women work for the GPO during WWII (and WWI) but the ban was re-imposed after the war and only lifted in 1946.

 

[woof woof]

Perhaps the growth and success in Women's football represents a sea change for the future for creating an increasingly fairer society....at least in western cultures?

I'm all for equality and in fact I once wrote the policy... but it's interesting that you say at least in western cultures as I think "we" should do all we can whenever we can to try and ensure an at least move towards equality elsewhere. Ok, it's not going to happen in Afghanistan or some places in the middle east or elsewhere but some countries which we'd possibly think of as being peopled by more of less the like minded as us have an awful long way to go. Look at Japan, I remember news articles within the last year or so about women not being allowed to wear flat shoes or glasses at work and that is just appalling. Surely some gentle persuasion could be applied whenever possible by our political, journalistic, celebrity class and influencers without looking like western imperialists telling everyone how to think.

 

[Box Brownie]

I'm all for equality and in fact I once wrote the policy... but it's interesting that you say at least in western cultures as I think "we" should do all we can whenever we can to try and ensure an at least move towards equality elsewhere. Ok, it's not going to happen in Afghanistan or some places in the middle east or elsewhere but some countries which we'd possibly think of as being peopled by more of less the like minded as us have an awful long way to go. Look at Japan, I remember news articles within the last year or so about women not being allowed to wear flat shoes or glasses at work and that is just appalling. Surely some gentle persuasion could be applied whenever possible by our political, journalistic, celebrity class and influencers without looking like western imperialists telling everyone how to think.

Yes, I agree and indeed I was thinking of the likes of middle Eastern countries and especially Afghanistan.

Re: Japan, I recall one story I read about where women and men differ.....the language, as I understood it, that a lot of Western men would learn Japanese from their female friends. When they converse with male Japanese they wondered why they did not receive the respect accorded to their position.

But yes even with female emancipation being considered by some in some countries to be "completed", it is not truly universal yet(!)

 

[andya700]

Whilst some people think of Japan as a very advanced, possibly Western type democracy, misogyny is still rife in the country.

A Gold Medal for Sexism in Japan

The Olympic system likes to claim that sport is “one of the most powerful platforms for promoting gender equality and empowering women and girls.” Yet when the president of the Tokyo 2020 Organizing Committee and former Japanese prime minister Yoshiro Mori was asked recently about increasing...

www.hrw.org

 

[woof woof]

Whilst some people think of Japan as a very advanced, possibly Western type democracy, misogyny is still rife in the country.

A Gold Medal for Sexism in Japan

The Olympic system likes to claim that sport is “one of the most powerful platforms for promoting gender equality and empowering women and girls.” Yet when the president of the Tokyo 2020 Organizing Committee and former Japanese prime minister Yoshiro Mori was asked recently about increasing...

www.hrw.org

Racism too.

 

[RedRobin]

Whilst some people think of Japan as a very advanced, possibly Western type democracy, misogyny is still rife in the country.

A Gold Medal for Sexism in Japan

The Olympic system likes to claim that sport is “one of the most powerful platforms for promoting gender equality and empowering women and girls.” Yet when the president of the Tokyo 2020 Organizing Committee and former Japanese prime minister Yoshiro Mori was asked recently about increasing...

www.hrw.org

Racism too.

.... Good luck anyone attempting to change the Japanese cultural ways and traditions! Outsiders can huff and puff about it but who thinks it will fundamentally change anytime soon. IF it changes it will only do so as a slow and gradual evolution over several generations, IMO.

But to nudge this further back on topic, what did Japanese women do in WW2? < I don't know.

 

[sphexx]

.... Good luck anyone attempting to change the Japanese cultural ways and traditions! Outsiders can huff and puff about it but who thinks it will fundamentally change anytime soon. IF it changes it will only do so as a slow and gradual evolution over several generations, IMO.

But to nudge this further back on topic, what did Japanese women do in WW2? < I don't know.

The commonest references to Japanese women in WW2 that I recall are in relation to suicides, eg

Suicide Cliff - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[woof woof]

.... Good luck anyone attempting to change the Japanese cultural ways and traditions! Outsiders can huff and puff about it but who thinks it will fundamentally change anytime soon. IF it changes it will only do so as a slow and gradual evolution over several generations, IMO.

But to nudge this further back on topic, what did Japanese women do in WW2? < I don't know.

We, as above, the great and the good and those who people listen to could try instead of concentrating on arguably lesser issues in the UK. The catch is of course that highlighting issues in the UK is cost free and gets you lots of retweets and likes whereas questioning attitudes in another country could well come at a cost or backlash.

My mam was evacuated during WW2, her younger brother stayed at home whist one sister worked in munitions and another went into the land army. They lived in South Bank which was the first place to be bombed in England. I believe the first place to be attacked was a bridge in Scotland but maybe the South Bank attacks were on a larger scale, the target being the nearby steelworks and docks.

It's sobering listening to relatives talk about air raids and hearing bombs rattle the roof. My dad told a story about laying on the bedroom floor and angling a mirror to see the sky and seeing a bomber picked out by the searchlights in the night sky. Rockets exploded all around it blowing the tail off. The bomber jettisoned it's bombs and crashed, the bomb blast blew dad out of the bedroom and down the stairs. Sorry to go OT, just a little story that sprung to mind.

Oh, and Mrs WW was a branch manager for a Japanese company in Thailand, they treated the Thais like s***.

 

[Fuji Dave]

Also another thing that is being written out of history are the women photographers who also photographed the acts of wars, goes back a very long way too.

 

[RedRobin]

What our mothers did in WW2 : My Greek mother suffered Athens being attacked by German Stuka dive bombers, famous for their terrifying sounds. And then 4 years of German occupation - My Great Uncle being shot by a firing squad for resistance. Enter the dashing figure of my father, an officer in the Royal Artillery kicking Rommel out of North Africa and fighting hard through Italy, and then the liberation of Greece. These are my parents.

 

[RedRobin]

Also another thing that is being written out of history are the women photographers who also photographed the acts of wars, goes back a very long way too.

.... That is very interesting and I would have thought that someone would have created a book of this history and ideally with an exhibition.

 

[simon ess]

an officer in the Royal Artillery kicking Rommel out of North Africa and fighting hard through Italy,

I wonder if he came across gunner Milligan.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Because my mother's family were tailors. in a fairly substantial way, she spent the war making clothes for the armed forces.

She so hated it that she refused to teach my sister how to sew. This backfired in a spectacular way, as my sister has made most of her own dresses ever since she left home - and still does!

 

[RedRobin]

I wonder if he came across gunner Milligan.

.... My father is no longer alive so I can't ask. Or do you mean a certain Spike Milligan? But I think he would have told me if he had known him.

 

[simon ess]

Or do you mean a certain Spike Milligan?

I do indeed. Yes, I'm sure he would have mentioned it if he knew.

 

[ancient_mariner]

My English grandmother worked for the MOD in London, on aircraft production. Not sure about my Austrian/German grandmother, but she seemed to have kept the family hotel running while her husband was in the army.

I don't see the role of women being airbrushed out, more the opposite at present.

 

[kennethwfd]

Now about the Land girls, the subject of both a film and a TV series, with men taking up active service, women became increasingly involved in farming. we had to produce our own food as very little could be imported during WW2

 

[Box Brownie]

Now about the Land girls, the subject of both a film and a TV series, with men taking up active service, women became increasingly involved in farming. we had to produce our own food as very little could be imported during WW2

My OH's mum and aunt were both Land Army girls.

 

[tijuana taxi]

My OH's mum and aunt were both Land Army girls.

My mum was orphaned in the east end during WW2 and joined the land army. Gave her a home in Essex and made friends that she kept in touch with for the next fifty plus years.
A few years back she received a medal and a thank you letter for her service

 

[Raincloud]

My mum was in the land Army during WWII. My Dad was at D-Day and beyond.

 

[sphexx]

My English grandmother worked for the MOD in London, on aircraft production. Not sure about my Austrian/German grandmother, but she seemed to have kept the family hotel running while her husband was in the army.

I don't see the role of women being airbrushed out, more the opposite at present.

My German grandmother died (young) before WW2 and I don’t know what her female relatives did during the war — invaded USSR maybe!

My Italian MiL sheltered a Jewish lady while my FiL was busy reluctantly invading Italy on behalf of Il Duce but was killed on his return by a British bomber that shouldn’t have been bombing Florence since the Hun had withdrawn.

Takes all sorts to run a war. I like to say the only country we (UK) can rely on is Germany as in WW2 they were the only ones who were in it with us at the beginning and stayed till the end . All the others were late arriving, left early or swapped sides, not cricket!

 

[Dave Canon]

We discovered that for a recent neighbouring couple who we got to know, the lady (who was Norwegian) operated as a Spy for the UK during WW2. She did not really want to talk about it even 70 years later. She was sworn to secrecy and stuck to her promise.

Dave

 

[Nod]

There's a series on Channel 4 about what some women did in WW II -

Britain’s Secret War Babies...​

 

[kennethwfd]

Violette Szabo, who became a spy in France, gave information to the Allies regarding German activity.
Arrested, interrogated, then sent to a concentration camp, and executed

Wikipedia has pages concerning women's contribution to WW2. For example, many became drivers of light commercial vehicles such as ambulances
Another was searchlight operators and gunners, the latter being nicknamed the Ack Ack Girls. Officially the ATS (Auxiliary Territorial Service), their job was to shoot down enemy aircraft.

Then there was Jane of the Daily Mirror, of whom it was said the title of strip cartoon was totally appropriate. Originally the diary of a bright young thing, during the war, Jane was always losing her clothes, A morale booster for our troops.

 

[sphexx]

Violette Szabo, who became a spy in France, gave information to the Allies regarding German activity.
Arrested, interrogated, then sent to a concentration camp, and executed

Yes, I was thinking earlier that of the women who may have taken a more active part in the fighting the majority were in France and other occupied countries — not so much the SOE people but the natives.

Most of them aren’t “famous”. I can think of Audrey Hepburn in Netherlands:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Hepburn#1939–1945:_Experiences_during_World_War_II

In the same vein, Hedy Lamar, actress & inventor:

At the beginning of World War II, she and avant-garde composer George Antheil developed a radio guidance system for Alliedtorpedoes that used spread spectrum and frequency hoppingtechnology to defeat the threat of jamming by the Axis powers

Hedy Lamarr - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Soviets:
Over 800,000 women served in the Soviet armed forces in World War II, mostly as medics and nurses, which is over 3 percent of total personnel; nearly 200,000 of them were decorated. 89 of them eventually received the Soviet Union’s highest award, the Hero of the Soviet Union, they served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans, as well as in auxiliary roles.[1] Few of these women, however, were promoted to officers.

Women in the Russian and Soviet military - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As I said earlier, takes all sorts!