What M42 body would you recommend?

[Cluster]

I'm liking the images that I get from my Carl Zeiss M42 Tessar 50mm/2.8 and have a few other lenses that I'd like to explore. I use a Cosina CSL which has stop-down TTL metering and which works well other than being a slight pain to change the shutter speed to match the exposure when trying to use as AP (No auto mode).
Is there an M42 body that takes auto lenses that is easier to use? (Exposure compensation would be nice too.)

 

[Plain Nev]

Every single one of them has exposure compensation. Really the world is your oyster when it comes to M42 camera bodies. I would say that generally speaking avoid most of the Fujicas. The 605 is fine, and that would be one I recommend, but others in the range have little pins an things on them, both to lock the lens and actuate the meter. So, for that reason their bodies can be lens specific. I would probably recommend the Spotmatic F, which meters wide open.

 

[Plain Nev]

Actually, thinking about it further it's not at all easy. Even the Spotmatic F relies upon a pin to operate the meter. So, while you can put your Tessar lens on it, you would have to meter stopped down. Really, the only one I can think of at the moment is the Chinon CX 11. And mainly because I'm sat here looking at one.

 

[Cluster]

Yes, I guess that I can change the film speed as way of exposure compensation and continue to use the needle match exposure as normal. I just need to always take my reading glasses!

My old Praktica PLC camera (my first SLR) had open aperture metering, but this needed the matching "electric" lenses, only Praktica versions were available.
Thinking about how it would work, I guess that open aperture metering needs more than my CZ Tessar provides, maybe the Cosina is as good as it gets! (open aperture focusing, part press on the shutter button stops down the aperture for metering by needle match).

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

M42 camera bodies are now getting very old, those like Pentax with fabric shutters are likely to be perished. Those few with metal shutters are probably not much better even if they still work. The cost of restoring them is becoming prohibitive, even if you can find a competent repairer.
What ever you buy will have a limited future working life.

 

[Plain Nev]

Yes, I guess that I can change the film speed as way of exposure compensation and continue to use the needle match exposure as normal. I just need to always take my reading glasses!

My old Praktica PLC camera (my first SLR) had open aperture metering, but this needed the matching "electric" lenses, only Praktica versions were available.
Thinking about how it would work, I guess that open aperture metering needs more than my CZ Tessar provides, maybe the Cosina is as good as it gets! (open aperture focusing, part press on the shutter button stops down the aperture for metering by needle match).

That is stopped down metering. If the shutter closes to meter. Discount my recommendation of the CX11 actually, because it's not metering wide open either. I'm now coming around to the thought that there might not be an M42 lens that does meter wide open. At least I can't think of one. That seems to coincide with later bayonet mounts. The good news is that if you are already metering stopped down then there are a lot more options.

Always remember that you can use your ISO for compensation too.

 

[lindsay]

What about an M42 to PK adapter though, would that do the trick and open up things like the Pentax KX/MX? Most of my film stuff is still packed so I can confirm this suggestion.

 

[Cluster]

I have a PK adapter from a while ago. Once fitted, it felt like it was stuck, I had to force it off. I understand that could have been down to that particular adapter...

So perhaps I should try a better PK adapter, Is there a version that transfers the aperture stop down movement to the pin on the lens?
If so, I can possibly use a body with a lens stop down preview button to stop down for metering and then when the shutter is pressed the lens will stop down for the exposure?

Just browsing the auction site seems to show none with that kind of functionality.

 

[droj]

Adapters can vary a lot between sloppy & tight in fit, unless you stump up for a Novoflex one ...

 

[Plain Nev]

I think you are misunderstanding slightly. All the pin on the lens does is close the aperture to your preset value. That's governed by the aperture ring on the lens. An automatic lens will remain fully open until you stop it down to meter, and of course when it fires.

 

[Cluster]

I think you are misunderstanding slightly. All the pin on the lens does is close the aperture to your preset value. That's governed by the aperture ring on the lens. An automatic lens will remain fully open until you stop it down to meter, and of course when it fires.

Yes, that's what I understand. So, if the Pentax does not press the pin to stop down the aperture to its preselected value, then TTL netering will have to be carried out by shutting down the aperture on the aperture ring and the DOF preview button (say on a P30) will be of no use when metering.

 

[Plain Nev]

Yes, that is how you meter stopped down. Once done the aperture will remain fully open until you fire the shutter.

 

[Cluster]

I had read that some users with camera bodies that had no auto aperture closing feature would fix/jam/glue the pin in, otherwise it wouldn't shut down and couldn't be shut down by using the aperture ring.

 

[Cluster]

It seems that my old (1978 ish) Cosina might be a good choice for my lens. It works well, even having a cloth shutter.

 

[Mostly Vintage Cameras]

I saw an m42 to nikon z adapter! I've hot an m42 to EF in front of me right now. Pretty sure I have an OM one somewhere. So a lot of choice.
Personal I'd put it on an MZ body to get focus confirmation or an ME Super.

 

[Sangoma]

I have a PK adapter from a while ago. Once fitted, it felt like it was stuck, I had to force it off. I understand that could have been down to that particular adapter...

This could have been due to the M42 standard not being standard.
Some had a groove machined round the mount on the camera to allow the pin to move round when unscrewing the lens, some didn't need the groove due to the placement/design of the screws that hold the mount on to the camera.

But on some, the pin would go into the screw holes and the lens would stick solid and not move, not too hard or impossible to solve, but many resort to forcing it, with mixed results.

The Spotmatics have a sliding switch to turn on the meter, which also stops down the lens to the preset value.
Avoid the Spotmatic F though

Nearly all FP shutters of that era are slow at the fast end, even after a "service"

 

[Rodinal]

Nearly all FP shutters of that era are slow at the fast end, even after a "service"

Who told you that little gem?

The fast end of the normal cloth blind type focal plane shutter, in fact any focal plane shutter of the same type is governed by the width of the slot between the two shutter curtains as are the other speeds above and including I believe 1/30 and possibly up to 1/60th which is where the flash synchro was at it's limit and where the entire film frame was exposed to coincide with the flash going off. so if they are set correctly at the lower end the speed accuracy would/should be more or less consistent.

In a comparison test conducted by a serious but long discontinued magazine (Not the comic, Amateur Photographer is today) they compared an Olympus OM1n, Nikon FM, Minolta SRT101, Pentax SP and a Canon AE1 There was very little to choose between them regarding speeds and all when set at 1/1000 sec were above the 1/900th mark which is for all practical purposes - nothing. OK that was when they were new but a competent technician should be able to replicate the accuracy by adjusting any discrepancy in the curtain gap.

Also with the earlier Pentax S1a from the early 1960's and after the 1/500th marked shutter speed was another click on the shutter dial which was found by a Fleet Street journalist and contributor to photographic magazines, Victor Blackman, to be a supposedly unregulated and unmarked shutter speed, which when tested closely approached a 1/1000th speed. Possibly unmarked so they could sell the S1a at a lower price.

Are you not confusing focal plane type shutters and the between lens shutters in cameras equipped with a SVS or similar shutters and similar to be the 'over optimistic' and often only managing 2/3rds of the marked top speed of 1/500th (even on Rollieflexes because that accuracy depended on consistent spring pressure, not the width of a gap between 2 component parts

 

[Sangoma]

Who told you that little gem?

The fast end of the normal cloth blind type focal plane shutter, in fact any focal plane shutter of the same type is governed by the width of the slot between the two shutter curtains as are the other speeds above and including I believe 1/30 and possibly up to 1/60th which is where the flash synchro was at it's limit and where the entire film frame was exposed to coincide with the flash going off. so if they are set correctly at the lower end the speed accuracy would/should be more or less consistent.

In a comparison test conducted by a serious but long discontinued magazine (Not the comic, Amateur Photographer is today) they compared an Olympus OM1n, Nikon FM, Minolta SRT101, Pentax SP and a Canon AE1 There was very little to choose between them regarding speeds and all when set at 1/1000 sec were above the 1/900th mark which is for all practical purposes - nothing. OK that was when they were new but a competent technician should be able to replicate the accuracy by adjusting any discrepancy in the curtain gap.

Also with the earlier Pentax S1a from the early 1960's and after the 1/500th marked shutter speed was another click on the shutter dial which was found by a Fleet Street journalist and contributor to photographic magazines, Victor Blackman, to be a supposedly unregulated and unmarked shutter speed, which when tested closely approached a 1/1000th speed. Possibly unmarked so they could sell the S1a at a lower price.

Are you not confusing focal plane type shutters and the between lens shutters in cameras equipped with a SVS or similar shutters and similar to be the 'over optimistic' and often only managing 2/3rds of the marked top speed of 1/500th (even on Rollieflexes because that accuracy depended on consistent spring pressure, not the width of a gap between 2 component parts

Measured, not told

Also, the gap between the curtains varies across the frame, that and accuracy depends on wear and friction, and the tension of the take up springs.

The Prontor shutters are generally better overall once cleaned and setup, but as you say, often 1/500 is around 1/350, but they are a lot easier to strip and reassemble to work well.

I have only measured the Pentax and Russian shutters, and have not found one that was near 1/900 (across the frame), which I agree would be nothing

 

[Rodinal]

Measured, not told

The Prontor shutters are generally better overall once cleaned and setup, but as you say, often 1/500 is around 1/350, but they are a lot easier to strip and reassemble to work well.

Canon made a high end rangefinder (not one of their Leica copies) which had a leaf shutter, possibly a Siekosha with a top speed of 1/1000 and I remember a test where it did not even reach 1/500. I also saw another Canon an SLR, I think it was the RM2000 way back in the middle 60's and that did have a focal plane shutter speed which measured only a gnats whisker short of the marked speed.

My 1979 Nikon F2a has a marked top speed of 1/2000 and I sent it to the Nikon specialist Sover Wong for a clean/lubricate, & calibrate the shutter and meter. Plus replace the seals. His detailed report came back with the camera that the shutter speed was within the Nikon tolerances, as was the meter. That was 7 years ago and it still soldiers on like new. The titanium shutter curtains will outlast any rubberised fabric version. He did not give the exact tested speed, just that it was within Nikon tolerances, and I am sure they would have been quite close to what they should be. I have yet to have a bad exposure that was the cameras fault.

Having said that I also have a Nikormat FT3, one of their first AI coupled camera bodies which is probably close to the same age as the F2, and that still works as well as it should even without being serviced.

P.S. I have just checked and the Canon RM2000 was actually a Canon RM, the 2000 was a later version

 

[excalibur2]

Also with the earlier Pentax S1a from the early 1960's and after the 1/500th marked shutter speed was another click on the shutter dial which was found by a Fleet Street journalist and contributor to photographic magazines, Victor Blackman, to be a supposedly unregulated and unmarked shutter speed, which when tested closely approached a 1/1000th speed. Possibly unmarked so they could sell the S1a at a lower price.

erm IIRC the Pentax S1 at 1000sec was measured to be 1/700 sec.......nice to know if my memory is/was correct.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

erm IIRC the Pentax S1 at 1000sec was measured to be 1/700 sec.......nice to know if my memory is/was correct.

The Pentax S1 and S1A shutter dial was marked for 1 second to 1/500th second. There was an unmarked clickstop next to the 1/500th position which some people claimed was the same as the SV's 1/1000th. I never tried using it, so I can't comment on the truth of that claim.

Pentax S1 35 mm SLR review - Everything Vintage

A look at the Pentax S1, an entry level camera in the Pentax 35mm range from the early 1960s. This unit also has the clip on light meter.

everythingvintage.uk

 

[excalibur2]

The Pentax S1 and S1A shutter dial was marked for 1 second to 1/500th second. There was an unmarked clickstop next to the 1/500th position which some people claimed was the same as the SV's 1/1000th. I never tried using it, so I can't comment on the truth of that claim.

Pentax S1 35 mm SLR review - Everything Vintage

A look at the Pentax S1, an entry level camera in the Pentax 35mm range from the early 1960s. This unit also has the clip on light meter.

everythingvintage.uk

 

[excalibur2]

Well Andrew would you believe (that the camera I've had since 1960/1961) and I got the model number wrong and it was the S3 tested for 1/1000th and it was 1/700.

 

[Clive K]

The Zeiss Icarex can be found quite reasonably priced and often bundled with tasty 35mm, 50mm & 135mm lenses that are quasi Voigtlander / Zeiss manufactured. Avoid the Zeiss Jena models that are East German manufacture. The Icarex comes in two types of mount, the BM models are bayonet mount, but the TM badged models have M42 mounts. The optics are the same.

 

[horrocks]

If you can find a working Pentax ES/ESII, would that not do it, provided your lens has the SMC pin? The final iteration of the Spotmatic and SE with the M42 mount, TTL metering and electronic Aperture Priority, it was quite the thing in its time. The electronics might be an issue, and unless already done the camera would need a service.

I've bought both an ES and an ESII at auction in the last two or three years, and both work fine, but need that service.

 

[ChrisR]

If you can find a working Pentax ES/ESII, would that not do it, provided your lens has the SMC pin? The final iteration of the Spotmatic and SE with the M42 mount, TTL metering and electronic Aperture Priority, it was quite the thing in its time. The electronics might be an issue, and unless already done the camera would need a service.

I've bought both an ES and an ESII at auction in the last two or three years, and both work fine, but need that service.

I had the original Electro Spotmatic (supposedly not sold outside Japan, but I got mine new in Hong Kong). It was an amazing camera that got many hundreds of spot-on exposures on Kodachrome and Ektachrome. I traded it in for a Pentax ME when the K mount came out; nowhere near such a good camera! However, I've definitely heard a lot since about the fragility of the electronics. Not sure whether that applies so much to the ES and ES II, but aren't all 3 pretty much completely dependent on their electronics? And with the increasing dearth of good repairers, is anyone left who can service them? I guess Peter Emanuel from Asahi Photo would know...

 

[horrocks]

I had the original Electro Spotmatic (supposedly not sold outside Japan, but I got mine new in Hong Kong). It was an amazing camera that got many hundreds of spot-on exposures on Kodachrome and Ektachrome. I traded it in for a Pentax ME when the K mount came out; nowhere near such a good camera! However, I've definitely heard a lot since about the fragility of the electronics. Not sure whether that applies so much to the ES and ES II, but aren't all 3 pretty much completely dependent on their electronics? And with the increasing dearth of good repairers, is anyone left who can service them? I guess Peter Emanuel from Asahi Photo would know...

I believe the ES and ESII were incrementally batter than the original Electro Spotmatic, with printed circuit boards. There is still delicacy there though. I found a post on the subject yesterday, I'll find it and put up the link later. As you say, when they are working the exposures are spot on, and those SMC Takumar lenses are lovely. My first camera was an ES, gifted to me by my grandfather in the 1970s. He too replaced it with an ME, and I absolutely agree with you. Neat, but disappointing.

 

[Plain Nev]

I have an ES myself. It works a treat now, but I had to stick at it. Initially the shutter wouldn't operate in the automatic position. Switch it to manual and it would release. Not sure if that's electrical or mechanical. But I persevered and eventually got it to a stage where it works fine on auto. Exposure is spot on.

 

[horrocks]

Here's the article. Well worth a read. This owner too had a struggle, but he eventually won, and loves the camera.

Pentax ES — Aperture Preview

By 1970, the m42 screw mount was starting to show its age, along with the Spotmatic. After a failed first attempt at a new electrically controlled Spotmatic, Asahi went back to the drawing board to release something special. This is the 1971 Pentax ES.

www.aperturepreview.com

 

[Plain Nev]

Here's the article. Well worth a read. This owner too had a struggle, but he eventually won, and loves the camera.

Pentax ES — Aperture Preview

By 1970, the m42 screw mount was starting to show its age, along with the Spotmatic. After a failed first attempt at a new electrically controlled Spotmatic, Asahi went back to the drawing board to release something special. This is the 1971 Pentax ES.

www.aperturepreview.com

A good read. I did ask Peter Emanuel about servicing mine, but he politely declined. I think their reputation precedes them. So hats off to this guy for doing it.