What if....................

Stuart Philpott

Stuart Philpott

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Name
Stu
Edit My Images
Yes
All the guys in the two nature sections,when posting an image also replied to say 3 other folks endevors,as a matter of course. I'm a happy go lucky nutter, I kinda don't want this as a forum rule it's not that side that appeals, I don't much like rules. I'd see this as fostering a spirit of friendliness. and community. We all love the same thang,we all try to be as good as each of us can be. It's nice to have a wee chat about what we all love doing even get a bit of freindly advice from more experienced eyes.Or just to dicus some point regarding an image
,
At the mo the best image makers tend to get lots of feed backs and likey thangs, I don't care for the like button much ,but it suits a purpose I s'pose,but that's not really me point ;'ere so if possible can we leave that for this one as something separate. Although I'm going to work that in anyhow


As I say the guys that make the best images,the most experienced,tend to get the most input,yet, and this was recently pointed out to me by another lovely guy here,many of them rarely reply to another. There are some real notible exceptions to this I'm not up for naming names here just thought this might be cool for all of us,maybe not, maybe the status quo won't change and things will continue as they are.

But to me it's a shame when a guy goes out tries real hard and doesn't maybe get the best image,but to him it's a good start and he or she gets 100 folks look but no reply.......... a bit of crit good or bad might help him along maybe a few folks popping up and saying hey mate will push him forwards,which for me is what fora are really about,like: minded souls helping each other out a bit

As well as being amazed by what the more experienced guys can achieve it would be cool if they also posted a bit bar their own images. In the past when I joined here there was lots of aggro,bird section especially......................sure we all have opinions and sure we will all disagree at times with each other,but we don't see that much now. It is possible to disagree without falling out,we just have to be nice to each other

Once that guy mentioned this to me it really struck home,I was aware I guess,but didn't see it as clearly as he had. There seems to be a real disparity,maybe I'm wrong put me straight. As an aside nice shot is lovely,but it get's no one anywhere.,it would be cool if folks said why they thought it was a nice shot.

I would also summise that the most gifted image makers whom get the lions share of comments and who barely reply to another would say while I can click a like button and do,because in the past folks got uppity when I tried to point something out ,but now that doesn't seem an issue. I'd also summise that they wouldn't want this,I mean why would they. But this section seems a bit flat as it is and after that seed was sown in my mind I've sort of wondered how we might change this for all of us.

We have a lovely team of mods whom can oversee and erm moderate:eek::D if fall outs happen.just a tip of a hat to them from me/us thanks guys what you do is appreciated.

Oh I know another off the wall ramble:p what can I say,:D

Over to you guys what do you think. We do this on another forum I visit,everyone is honest with each other and every one gets a few replies which to me is how it should be,three little replies wouldn't take much when one posts,use the like button the rest of the time if ya like an image and don't have time to reply. But for me as time pressed as anyone this might be an option. surely if I can find the time to process and post an image I can bang out 3 replies to the other members. I'm also pretty sure that those replies will take me longer to post than the vast majority of members here,because i'm such a dummy with letters This post has taken way too long already,but I really think it might be worth while hence spending the time

3 replies when ya post an image or a set waddaya think???

take care all

stu
 
How exactly would you police this, we actually have 3 nature sections ?

Are you saying if you want post in the birds you have to reply to 3 bird posts, wild and free 3 post in there, captive, plants etc, 3 posts ?

I doubt the software in able to do this without a lot of fiddling about and the mods are voluntary you can't expect them to search , only other
way would be for all post to need to be authorised, another nightmare

If you look in the support section, you will see this has been discussed before, like restricting OOF posts unless you make x amoiunt
in critique

Personally I post pictures for fun, as my titles etc. show, if I don't get comments so what :rolleyes:

My biggest hate is people who don't reply to comments, we have a few that never do and wonder why people don't bother
and those that get upset when someone actually has the nerve to point out their shots are less the perfect
 
I'm with Ingrid on this. Most times I post a comment it's not strictly a critique but a comment/question of my own. I'm well aware I'm fairly well down the ability scale and for me to crit would have a large element of 'pot, kettle and black' about it. If having posted an image or made one comment I had to post x more I almost sertainly wouldn't bother - wouldn't have time as much as anything. When I see an image I really like I will often just hit the like button as I struggle to put into words why I like it. It's often an emotive thing. And sometimes I see something I really don't like on many levels but other people seem to like, which leads me to believe that my judgement is slightly warped............It does annoy me a bit that some people get lots of feedback and some get very little. I'm in the latter category but I genuinely want to know what people think of my work, good or bad, and I'm far too old and ugly to be offended by anything. But that's how it is in real life. Some people just are more popular than others and it's often impossible to say why - just human nature. As to people who get comments but never come back even for a quick 'thanks' - glad I'm not the only one hacked off by this. I have been known to check someone's posting record before deciding whether to reply....... But rules? No. Even if it was possible I think it would either put a lot of people off or there'd be even more 'great shot' comments (even when it clearly isn't). Maybe the 'like'button could only appear in certain sections. Clearly it has more of a place in the non critique sections.
 
Stu,

It's been mentioned a few times now about the level of critique on here - this was the last one I remember - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/critique.663039/

I know exactly where you're coming from, but sadly, there isn't the same willingness to learn on here as there is over on the other forum. The excuses that I've heard on here in the past as to why people don't comment have bordered on the ridiculous at times - everyone started off at the bottom, so if you want to learn you just need the initiative to get involved in the the discussions, ask questions, talk about the shots, suggest any changes you think might work etc, whether it be fieldcraft, settings, or presentation.

However, that involves actually getting off your virtual backside and wanting to improve, rather than just be told how wonderful you are. You also have to be prepared to accept your work of art may be flawed in some way, something which certain posters are totally incapable of, another time where the lame excuses come in.

The major downside of this forum is the amount of utter cack that receives numerous 'great shot' comments, leading the OP to believe they are getting things right. I shake my head and smile to myself regularly when I see some of the praise given for a shot that frankly would have been an instant delete. I'm aware that may sound arrogant, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a rubbish shot - just as long as people are honest and try and suggest ways to improve. We've all posted crap shots, I cringe when I look back through some of my history, but getting told they are excellent when they are really out of focus and underexposed doesn't do anybody any favours.

I guess it just boils down to whether you like to be honest or just a nice guy/gal who doesn't want to upset anyone.

Having to comment 3 times for each thread could never be a forum rule but 3 meaningful comments would certainly raise the level of crit and quality of work quickly. And please get rid of that bloody 'like' button - all it does is encourage laziness. One line to say what it is you like isn't difficult.

Mike
 
Stuart Philpott said:
At the mo the best image makers tend to get lots of feed backs and likey thangs,
Click to expand...

When people from Cities take pics of huge buildings and grand architecture that looks good they get loads of "feed backs and likey thangs"
Or holiday in exotic locations etc.
It is not based on skill all the time. Many deliberately try to make eye catching photography or photography that is flattering them if you know what I mean.
Some go to extreme lengths to make flashy photos, spending vast amounts of cash. I just laugh at them and think they are desperate
 
pooley said:
The major downside of this forum is the amount of utter cack that receives numerous 'great shot' comments, leading the OP to believe they are getting things right. I shake my head and smile to myself regularly when I see some of the praise given for a shot that frankly would have been an instant delete. I'm aware that may sound arrogant, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a rubbish shot - just as long as people are honest and try and suggest ways to improve. We've all posted crap shots, I cringe when I look back through some of my history, but getting told they are excellent when they are really out of focus and underexposed doesn't do anybody any favours.
Click to expand...
Totaly agree with Mike here Stu, i won't mention any names but the Bird section is flooded with one mans shots he should have his own forum...
I know that does not stop me from offering CC but at the moment (and i am just talking about the bird section) but without sounding rude and as Mike also states arrogant unfortunately it is true...
 
Cheers guys comments much appreciated thanks

,Ingrid my apologies three nature sections,my bad. Nah as I said I didn't want it to be a rules thing,as you say the mods already do enough and for nowt,hence my line of thanks to them. for clarity if one posted in say birds then one posts replies there I sort of wondered if we the members might step up. be encouraged that sort of thing. You have ALL given me points I hadn't yet mused myself cheers for that I won't go much further guys,I'm curious to see what else gets posted The three post was just a number really off the top of my head, it could be as little as one.It was an effort to spread input a bit more really Ingrid But i do appreciate the time you have all taken. Thanks again :)


Ha, before I go I had to laugh...."and please get rid of that bloody like button",:D exactly how I feel too hated that thing when it first showed on an unrelated fora and I watched it slowly kill the conversations. That world seems to have now completely disappeared to be replaced by face book or something,nothing to do with photography I'll add

take care all
 
(Caveat: Not just Nature)

If memory serves there used to be a whole section devoted to crit. Then things got changed around (I think the "crit" tag could be applied) but for me it's got to the point where I'm not sure what I should comment on. Currently the sharing tab on the home page doesn't have a single photo with the "Critique" tab. Also, there are a lot of posts that are just a photo. No text.

For me (and I don't frequent the Nature forum, so forgive me if it's a "genre" thing) I can't critique a photo if I don't know what the photographer was trying to achieve. So I'd ask those who want critique to 1) Add the Crit tag to their post (does this need to be made clearer in a "New Post?") and 2) Spend a moment talking about their image - what they like, what they don't like, and what they want to improve.

Whacking a photo link to Flickr takes about as much time as clicking a like button. Low effort post = low effort response. Nowt wrong with that really, but not a great learning help.

Now if there are images out there with information that the photographer wants to impart with his images, then are they getting lost in the noise? I clicked on a few random posts (in different genres) and they were all "I was walking along and saw this..." + photo, or just a photo (or 5)

I'd love to see a dedicated crit section come back. People who want to get better and/or elicit discussion on their images. It would be good for those with thick skins and a willingness to learn and the 'like' crowd would be unaffected. However I'm in a minority because it was changed from that some time ago. Perhaps it's time to revisit? (hopeful-emote) :)

In answer to the OP though - I think it would be a Bad Idea to force it.
 
Too many people post images, but don't post exposure detail and/or body & lens info.

If you want crit, give everybody the info, and I don't want to have to jump over to Flickr to find it either...
 
The flip side to people giving crit is that they don't like the photographer pushing back against it when they disagree. After all, if someone has just told you your image sucks then hopefully you're passionate enough about your picture to defend it, provided you have a reasonable basis for doing so. And the 'like' button is a great way of giving encouragement without writing "Stunning shot" or some such drivel.

But I'd agree that more crit would be welcome. There are times when I'll go through Landscape & Architecture looking for posts with no comments to try to offer something, though sometimes there will be images I can't find anything helpful to say except "bin it", and that's not going to make anyone a better photographer.
 
Jelster said:
Too many people post images, but don't post exposure detail and/or body & lens info.

If you want crit, give everybody the info, and I don't want to have to jump over to Flickr to find it either...
Click to expand...

Never really understood the need for this, unless you are entering a competition ?
So much can be altered in processing, white balance, exposure etc.
As for camera/lens does it really matter that much, I've seen some great shots taken
with point and shoot ameras
 
Stu, I stopped posting and commenting in the Bird section because of what I said in the opening post of the thread that Mike refers to.

There is a situation on here where some just "like" everything, and I mean everything and just do not understand or want to understand the word Critique........ the Bird section is a (Sharing) and "Critique" Section - simple as that .........some of comments that I see made are misleading and some comments are just incorrect ......... the section just plods on as a mutual admiration society ...... I have put up suggestions in the past to try to cater for this and that's why I started the - "What birds have you seen today, thread" - which was supposed to be a "no critique" needed thread

Stu - I see were you are coming from and were you got the "3 replies" idea from - but that comes from a Forum where Critique is understood and whether the image is "liked" or "not liked" does not really matter

we have gone through this several times and this has caused good nature photographers to leave the Forum, I cannot see any point in trying to change it as the majority seem happy with the Forum as it is
 
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There is no real reason that I quoted Mike, all the comments are valid :thumbs:
pooley said:
Having to comment 3 times for each thread could never be a forum rule
Click to expand...
Because it would be like all these Flickr groups. I certainly wouldn't want it and I hope the admin wouldn't either.

pooley said:
And please get rid of that bloody 'like' button - all it does is encourage laziness.
Click to expand...
Its no secret that I voted against it, when the subject was first raised in the staff room.
The admin thought it would bring more traffic / posts.
I think we all know that it had the opposite effect, turning TP into something akin to Face book, where the standard reply to critique is "But the client liked it"
Well that's fine, but if you are posting an image on a site, for your peers to scrutinise, when none are "Your client" you must expect, truthfulness.
If its crap, some one is bound to say it ... well slightly more politely, even if you thought it eh? ;)

But as I said in the afore linked thread,
Cobra said:
There are a few Prima Donna's on here that absolutely will not take criticism, even if its well founded, and helpful, finding reasons why the helper is talking out of their arse.
Click to expand...

Back to the "like" button, yes remove it, certainly from the image forums, maybe it has a place in the "talk" forums at the absolute maximum.
(in fact I'm posting that bit back to the staff room)

As to the answer, I don't know what it is, some people need to change, but I doubt that'll happen,
Maybe the prolific posters in each section could try and "steer" things a little more?
That's not to say I'm encoring anyone to pseudo-mod,. hit the report button if needed, ( we can't be everywhere)
But maybe just take the lead with encouragement or gentle / honest critique, there are ways of saying things as we all know ;)
Maybe those people that get comments on their images could at least reply with a "Thanks"
Even if you don't agree, with what was posted, and maybe say why?
And maybe some posters can stop being so aggressive, if they don't like the comments posted,
there is an ignore button ( just click someone avatar and your'll see it ... Hard luck if you clicked mine its not there :p )
Maybe pigs will fly?
 
Crit works both ways.
On the Nature Forum there are some who won't accept crit and there are others who won't accept that their crit isn't the be all and end all of wisdom.
There are a very small handful who IMO offer valuable crit and for the rest of us its odds and ends and encouragement (which is not necessarily a bad thing)
Most certainly the 'Like' button has killed the forum.
 
Thanks again to all that have contributed,some fascinating thoughts, can I point out again this was more about us being encouraging than rules...... basically trying to get a bit more for the next guy who joins TP

Good reading,not many folks like that like button!! The fora I spoke of before was much more niche than photography and so the fall out from that button will never be felt to the same way as a photography forum I feel,just sheer numbers of posters here as opposed to there. I've not really been here long enough to know how far reaching the effect of that button is here,but it's pretty obvious that many see it in a bad way

cheers all
 
Gremlin said:
Never really understood the need for this, unless you are entering a competition ?
So much can be altered in processing, white balance, exposure etc.
As for camera/lens does it really matter that much, I've seen some great shots taken
with point and shoot ameras
Click to expand...


Simple really. Could the image have been better if, say the depth of field was greater/less, ISO reduced ? Kit not so much, but I always find it helpful when looking at images and try and put myself in the photographers place.

Agree that fundamentals can be changed in PP, but you can't really change choice of aperture or shutter speed in post.
 
I don't post many photos in the forums (I do post every week in the 52 though). I don't have a problem with the like button myself, but can see why some others may not like it.
One of the reasons I don't post many photos is, I don't think many people would find them particularly interesting, I generally take photos for me, not everyone else. Sometimes I think one may be good enough or have some sort of intrest to people on the forum, so I'll post it. If someone just hits the like button, that's fine by me, to me it means they like the photo and don't think it could be improved. I don't mind critique positive or negative, I ignore the negative if there is no additional comment on how to (or should I say, how they would) improve the photo.
I will admit that I'm not the best at thanking people who have taken the time to give feedback (to me this a better word than critique), I'll usually get round to it, but it may be a while after it was given.
I'll only give feedback if I think it would be helpful, I'm not one for slating someone else's work just because I don't like it.
Positive encouragement is the best way for people to improve. Negative only comments aren't helpful, they are discouraging and only drive people away from posting.
As I understand it, all forum sections are open to critique apart from 'photos for pleasure'.
 
Nostromo said:
Positive encouragement is the best way for people to improve. Negative only comments aren't helpful, they are discouraging and only drive people away from posting.
Click to expand...

:agree:
 
Nostromo said:
Positive encouragement is the best way for people to improve. Negative only comments aren't helpful, they are discouraging and only drive people away from posting.
Click to expand...


:agree: … me too.
 
Nostromo said:
Positive encouragement is the best way for people to improve. Negative only comments aren't helpful, they are discouraging and only drive people away from posting
Click to expand...

gramps said:
:agree:
Click to expand...

Kodiak Qc said:
:agree: … me too.
Click to expand...

When I post in response to an image inviting C&C I take that to mean Constructive Criticism.......such may have to the poster negative interpretation as well as the positives but all of it should be constructive feedback as I see & interpret what has been posted.

The one thing that might shorten the thread is if in the OP the PP software was mentioned because a goodly number do not........if it was mentioned any c&c related to processing can be more targeted by those who know "that particular software".

Yes, PP insight based on what a responder might, would or could do is fine but the image poster might have little or no interest in changing their software usage. Therefore those in the know re the software have the potential to to be more helpful on that aspect.
 
I'm loosing interest for various reason, some already mentioned above and find the like button very handy because its just easy(y)

What's the point in offering crit and politely pointing out that a shot is clearly underexposed,for another member to PM them saying I'm wrong :D
 
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Phil-D said:
and find the like button very handy because its just easy(y)
Click to expand...

Curiously, there are very few likes in this thread so far :D
So either no one likes the post(s) or they are trying to engage in intercourse of the social kind :thumbs:

Phil-D said:
What's the point in offering crit and politely pointing out that a shot is clearly underexposed,for another member to PM them saying I'm wrong :D
Click to expand...
But if its not posted on the open forum, it didn't happen :D
 
pooley said:
Stu,

It's been mentioned a few times now about the level of critique on here - this was the last one I remember - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/critique.663039/

I know exactly where you're coming from, but sadly, there isn't the same willingness to learn on here as there is over on the other forum. The excuses that I've heard on here in the past as to why people don't comment have bordered on the ridiculous at times - everyone started off at the bottom, so if you want to learn you just need the initiative to get involved in the the discussions, ask questions, talk about the shots, suggest any changes you think might work etc, whether it be fieldcraft, settings, or presentation.

However, that involves actually getting off your virtual backside and wanting to improve, rather than just be told how wonderful you are. You also have to be prepared to accept your work of art may be flawed in some way, something which certain posters are totally incapable of, another time where the lame excuses come in.

The major downside of this forum is the amount of utter cack that receives numerous 'great shot' comments, leading the OP to believe they are getting things right. I shake my head and smile to myself regularly when I see some of the praise given for a shot that frankly would have been an instant delete. I'm aware that may sound arrogant, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with posting a rubbish shot - just as long as people are honest and try and suggest ways to improve. We've all posted crap shots, I cringe when I look back through some of my history, but getting told they are excellent when they are really out of focus and underexposed doesn't do anybody any favours.

I guess it just boils down to whether you like to be honest or just a nice guy/gal who doesn't want to upset anyone.

Having to comment 3 times for each thread could never be a forum rule but 3 meaningful comments would certainly raise the level of crit and quality of work quickly. And please get rid of that bloody 'like' button - all it does is encourage laziness. One line to say what it is you like isn't difficult.

Mike
Click to expand...


OK,I had to like it!!
i agree with nuch of what has been said by others. Personally I post photos because I want constructive criticism - I typically post things where I have tried something different or am not sure about something. I do not always post my best shots because I like them and I do not need my ego boosting (yet). Some people are extremely helpful and go out of their way to help others and I have benefitted from their counsel and time (THANK YOU!!)
I have to admit that not everyone like the criticism, even when done in a 'kind' manner. I do this for fun and do not want to upset anyone, nor can I be bothered in getting into pi$$ing matches - Photography has alot of opinion - If its in focus,exposed correctly then the rest is personal opinion.
as in most things you get out what you put in.
 
I think the "Like " button for those of us who might find it hard to justify a CC, as we/I are not expert enough to fill the roll of judge and jury.

I know what I like, so unless there is an obvious flaw to me, a "Lovely Photo" or "Like the colours" is probably the only comment I make. The "Like" button does this for me in quick time.

In the past I have tried to make CC, only to get shot down by the pack. Thus I don't bother.............................:-(

TP at its worst.
 
wow you lot are still going cool, lovely to see all these smiles,good on ya guys
I might think of another crap idea soon;)

what's social intercourse Chris shouldn't that be banned?? Is that something city folk do:D

It's difficult to post a like in a thread where one has just told everyone "I hate the blummin thing":eek:...HUH...too funny

Encouragement...... positive stuff can be weaved into any crit As I've said before "crit is an opinion it IS NOT someone taking a pop at ya". if someone really wants to learn..... really wants to learn........ then the negatives are of huge benefit. We learn as much from our mistakes as we do when we nail it (ok we believe we nailed it;))

. Actually and frankly I beleive I learn more from me cockups than the better efforts. Folks are only really hurt by negatives because their bloody ego is too big.

C'mon that is what it is no more no less

We have folks that post for fun folks that want to be a pro and pros,all have different opinions as to what they want from a forum,which is brill and cool,I opened this up because frankly I wanted a bit more for the next guy trying to level the playing field,My first line said " not about rules" but hey I din't get that out well enough sadly,my bad but already it's in two posts hey ho

Tell ya what though folks cheers for all the replies and staying cool with each other and as before lots of smiles.

For me I adore photography because of it's honesty,because there is no where to hide,........ one can hide behind processing,only until someone asks.can you post an unedited RAW please for us.

At that point there is no reason, none !!!!!!! not to do so(sure a low res version) bar EGO !! Like anyone is gonna steal a low res version lots of folks have seen of a forum and not have come back backed with lots of whitnesses

ok they might but even so how much more proof can one have?? Maybe I'm being niave here but I can't see another reason to not post said RAw bar EGO put me right!!

I like techs posted they help me I learn from then ,it's cool seeing what the image maker thought about through the tech choices made ,.It seems "bad form" to ask for crit and not post techs,impolite. why ask for help and make the helper work harder??

But I can't get away from the honesty of it all ,it seems to me that image making is the one place in life where a poster can prove honesty or look like a ;) when he doesn't

,I love that

late tired posting gets me in trouble so I'm off to bed:p

but It would be rude to have started this and not come back until tomorrow


Thanks guys I really mean that,I don't think in all honesty my thoughts will have any effect,but I am grateful for ALL the differing opinions and your time taken to reply


stu
 
Mark Johnson said:
I think the "Like " button for those of us who might find it hard to justify a CC, as we/I are not expert enough to fill the roll of judge and jury.

I know what I like, so unless there is an obvious flaw to me, a "Lovely Photo" or "Like the colours" is probably the only comment I make. The "Like" button does this for me in quick time.

In the past I have tried to make CC, only to get shot down by the pack. Thus I don't bother.............................:-(

TP at its worst.
Click to expand...
we learn by crit Mark the past is the past i'd love ya crit,I'll be cool with ya and learn with ya,we can all crit CC is it for all of us,you learn by looking harder I learn by your honesty,

It's a shame so many feel they have nowt to offer when some of us yearn for their wisdom !!!!! your wisdom !!!!!!
belucky mate

stu
 
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