What do you think of the world only existing in an app

BADGER.BRAD

BADGER.BRAD

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It seems like the world now only exists in an app, my lads car broke down so I phoned the RAC, They told me I should have used the app I told them I don't have a smart phone. They then told me they would send me message and I should click on the link and it will tell them my location, again I told them I don't have a smart phone and I already know where I am ( at this point I have to say when the patrol turned up he was great and sorted the problem really fast) Next incident ,I have change address recently went to my local bank (Lloyds) to inform them ( Saturday morning) it was closed and only opened in the week till 2 pm so if I'm a dole dosser that would be fine ! As I'm a working man I cannot attend. I decided to phone them up and got the usual we have high call numbers at the moment ( which translates to we don't have enough staff !) After about 30 mins I got through they told me to download the app ! I told them I don't have a smart phone ( baffled) They then said you will have to do this in branch , I told them I had a job ( obviously an alien concept) and could not attend because of their stupid hours. After much stupidity I told them I wouldn't bother they then said no you must change you address !!!!! Incident 3 I took Mrs badger for an eye test connected with her driving license. I used a multi story car park ( first time for ever) I parked for an hour entered my reg and it gave me a price of 50p right into my wallet, I got 50p out and went to put it in the slot after much confusion I realized there was no slot and had to pay ( you guessed it) On a smart phone app ! Needless to say they got nothing after all they refused legal tender. Now I know I'm a little different than most only having an old 90's Nokia as a mobile phone but If I need an app to breath, drink, eat, fart,go to hospital,use a bus etc etc how big a memory will my smart phone need and how much of your data are these people collecting ? What happens if you lose your phone or the battery goes flat will you end up on the streets ?
decided to phone them up and got the usual we have high call numbers at the moment ( which translates to we don't have enough staff !) After about 30 mins I got through they told me to download the app ! I told them I don't have a smart phone ( baffled) They then said you will have to do this in branch , I told them I had a job ( obviously an alien concept) and could not attend because of their stupid hours. After much stupidity I told them I wouldn't bother they then said no you must change you address !!!!! Incident 3 I took Mrs badger for an eye test connected with her driving license. I used a multi story car park ( first time for ever) I parked for an hour entered my reg and it gave me a price of 50p right into my wallet, I got 50p out and went to put it in the slot after much confusion I realized
Rant over, What do you think ?
 
Pretty much everything about you is available somewhere, even if you're trying to be off the grid.

BTW, legal tender doesn't mean what most people believe it does and there is no obligation for places (with very few exceptions) to accept it. Most parking fees can be paid by card over the phone if there's no option to pay using one (card) at the machine.

I use as few apps as possible but do so when necessary. I only have a smart phone because it was bought for me as a gift. Only very recently got added to Mrs Nod's contract so I have mobile data and barely use it.
 
This will only change when Russia or China completely blast the UK internet backbone with a cyber attack. [\tinhatmode]
 
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FWIW

I am happy with online banking... ...but an app on my phone, no thanks!

Re: parking ~ I do recall using my phone but don't think it was app based???
 
Box Brownie said:
FWIW

I am happy with online banking... ...but an app on my phone, no thanks!

Re: parking ~ I do recall using my phone but don't think it was app based???
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I find the apps make it so easy - check balances, pay someone etc... so easy.
 
cambsno said:
I find the apps make it so easy - check balances, pay someone etc... so easy.
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If you mean banking app(s), my online banking does everything I need. Personally I don't need to 'do my banking right now' that apps seemed to targeted at addressing a problem that does not (for me) exist.
 
I had a similar problem the other day and needed to talk to a person at the Bank.
Eventually got through and was asked " Do you have the app" like a fool I clicked yes and went round in circles trying the chat function.
I eventually gave up and rang again , this time said I did not have the app and got put through to a person.
 
lindsay56 said:
This will only change when Russia or China completely blast the UK internet backbone with a cyber attack. [\tinhatmode]
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Will TP be down for long when that happens? :P
 
I think "Wibble!" is the only correct answer, Darling...
 
A few thoughts on this ... my 87 year old mother and many other elderly people are completely shut out of a lot of essential services, not just by apps but by the whole move online.

For most people it does make life easier and more efficient and why should most people be inconvenienced because a few people don't like it. I see an analogy with the introduction of the car, at one time it was a legal requirement to have someone walk in front with a red flag so that the car didn't frighten horses, Now of course, horses are an inconvenience to car drivers rather than the other way around.

We should all share from the efficiency gains resulting from apps but of course we don't, the businesses that are benefiting from the cost savings of apps are just reaping the gains, not sharing them with us or dealing with the consequences of employing fewer people to provide the service. Also those businesses are not sharing the risk, they pass all the risk on to us. For example in the past a bank had to make sure that a cheque was valid, now basically they have passed that responsibility on to us, lose your phone and the problem is yours, not the banks'.

It is going to take regulation a long time to catch up and unlike any other previous technology revolution the rate of change is so fast that there is not the option of taking a long time to implement regulations.
 
sirch said:
For most people it does make life easier and more efficient and why should most people be inconvenienced because a few people don't like it.
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This is the key point.

While we should always attempt to meet the needs of the minority, we have to accept the wishes of the majority, like them or not.
 
It's not just older people as those with difficulties to overcome could be affected and then there are bound to be other people like me who don't like and aren't interested in smartphone usage. For many years I worked in the computer industry and then wider tech and I got to the point that I hated the sight of the things. These days I'll use this pc to process my pictures, buy stuff, surf the net and post on here and I do my banking online too but that the extent of it and when it's not in use or running a slideshow this thing goes out of sight. I do have an old PAYG smartphone someone gave me but I'm not interested in using it for anything other than emergency use when I'm out. When I'm at home it's turned off. I do therefore resent the trend to push our lives onto smartphones. Granted there may not be millions of people like me though :D
 
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Ricardodaforce said:
The way we conduct our lives evolves over time. You can embrace it or not. It’s not a skill issue, it’s will.
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It is in some instances a "skill" issue or a technical one. Me and Mrs WW are having horrendous issues at the moment with an app that wont let us log onto it. In an extreme case this could lead to her being deported. And it seems next to impossible to talk to a human with the skills to sort the issue out.

Another example is that fiasco with sub postmasters. Shocking.

Real and even life changing issues do occur if there's no trained, competent and accessible human in the chain.
 
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Apps are basically de-skilling technology that suits the firms that provide them, and it's perfectly possible to live without them.

My car broke down a few weeks ago - first time ever - and I rang Green Flag because I didn't have the app on m phone. There wasn't any kind of a problem and I received exactly the same level of service by speaking to an experienced, helpful human. The only downside, which didn't matter at all to me, was that the app would have shown me the exact location of the recovery wagon that they sent.

As for waiting unreasonable lengths of time to speak to "customer service advisors" who don't provide customer service, life's too short for that. Old-technology letters work better:)

As for banking apps, no thanks, I don't trust them, don't need them and won't take the risk of having them. Online banking is different, it's highly unlikely that my PC will end up being lost or stolen.
 
Garry Edwards said:
. Old-technology letters work better:)
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Sometimes, but not with HMRC. Twice I have sent recorded delivery or special delivery letters to different parts of HMRC dealing with important issues requiring a response, and in both cases whilst I can prove they received the letters, no response has ever been received. Three times in fact now I think on it. Hopeless by letter, impossible by phone (on hold for literally an hour then the line is dropped and you start again). In one case, I literally withheld payment in order to elicit a response, which was successful after a few months. But their "Behavioural Modification Unit" can send out threatening letters with impunity. I'd better stop there...
 
Box Brownie said:
If you mean banking app(s), my online banking does everything I need. Personally I don't need to 'do my banking right now' that apps seemed to targeted at addressing a problem that does not (for me) exist.
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I'm with you on that (y)
Nod said:
Will TP be down for long when that happens? :p
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Russia won't be a problem. But China make take a little longer before we can gain complete control (y)


Garry Edwards said:
As for banking apps, no thanks, I don't trust them, don't need them and won't take the risk of having them. Online banking is different, it's highly unlikely that my PC will end up being lost or stolen.
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And that has been my point along (y)
 
Ricardodaforce said:
The way we conduct our lives evolves over time. You can embrace it or not. It’s not a skill issue, it’s will.
Click to expand...


Feel free to come and teach Mrs Nod's 91 year old mother (very deaf and with vision problems) how to use her new dumb phone (to replace her old 3310).
 
Garry Edwards said:
As for banking apps, no thanks, I don't trust them, don't need them and won't take the risk of having them. Online banking is different, it's highly unlikely that my PC will end up being lost or stolen
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Assuming your phone is locked and whoever has your phone doesn't know the passcode for the banking app, I don't see an issue.
 
Garry Edwards said:
it's highly unlikely that my PC will end up being lost or stolen
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But it is still possible that a key logger could be installed or a man-in-the middle attack could steal your details without ever going near your PC.
 
sirch said:
But it is still possible that a key logger could be installed
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Following basic security procedures should avoid that. Of course, if people followed basic security procedures, most criminals of any time would need other employment! :naughty:
sirch said:
or a man-in-the middle attack could steal your details without ever going near your PC.
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Interception only works if you can decrypt the data. That's difficult in itself and banks also use one-time tokens with short lives to guard against it.
 
Marc said:
I don't see an issue.
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My real issue or one of them is the size of the screen, a few square cm or 350sq ins :D
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Following basic security procedures should avoid that. Of course, if people followed basic security procedures, most criminals of any time would need other employment! :naughty:
Interception only works if you can decrypt the data. That's difficult in itself and banks also use one-time tokens with short lives to guard against it.
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Organized crime has been found to be actively supporting older phones with updates and patches just to keep them online so "following basic security procedures" such as applying security updates might not be the panacea for everyone.

Man-in-the middle permits easy decryption of data. Since Edward Snowdon's activities the company I work for man-in-the-middle's all our secure internet connections so that they can see what we are uploading and downloading
 
Marc said:
My eyesight is certainly no better than yours and I cope fine with the app*
*I bank with Barclays and their app is very well laid out IMHO. Can't speak for others obviously.
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Phones are for phoning or texting, anything important I do on the pc (y)
 
Cobra said:
Its the only way I do banking, I've never yet found it an inconvenience.
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And long may you do so but my original comment was in regards to security where people seem to think that, if you lose your phone or have it stolen, someone will have access to your bank account.

Also, I find the app much quicker than on the computer as I can never find the blimmin' card reader! :p
 
@Marc, I guess one size doesn't fit all and we do what suits us personally (y)
 
sirch said:
Man-in-the middle permits easy decryption of data.
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I've been out of the game since I retired eight years ago. However, the banks I worked with were already thinking about security for online transactions. High priority was being given to application level encryption. The idea was that, regardless of the transport layer, only encrypted data would be visible, if the stream were read outside of the user's application or the servers.

Didn't this happen?
 
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Where I used to live there was a guy on the local market that would unlock any phone for £10 Either network lock or password/security lock He had a big sign saying this ! So it is very possible to bypass the security. A bit like key less cars that keep getting nicked by people with a laptop.
The main reason I have an old phone is battery life , My little Nokia will last two weeks plus on a full charge where as my smart phone was ( or seemed to be) always flat, I've had it for a long time I've bashed it to bits dropped in water a few times got it very damp when out Motorcycle green laning, kayaking, and mountain biking and it also still has it's original battery. I do find it amazing that I sit in a room at work having my dinner and 90% of the people in the room are staring at their phones and if you speak to them they don't even notice you (Electronic zombification) this does wind me up ! Finger print identity could make the situation more violent bounce you to the floor and then use your fingers to provide the security, a high level manager where I work had a bunch of masked men with knives and hatchets kick in the front door they were then threatened into giving up the keys for their high end cars as I'm guessing these cars had enough security that they would only start with the keys, The result was a couple terrified to live in their own house so security can backfire. My approach is a £200 banger that no self respecting criminal would be seen dead in, a strong chain around the steering wheel to put them off a little more. I think they would more likely take pity on me and post a few quid through the door ! :):)
 
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sirch said:
We should all share from the efficiency gains resulting from apps but of course we don't
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I was listening to a podcast the other day which came up with an interesting idea, Instead of app makers earning big ££££ from your personnel data they should be forced to ask you if they can use it and if you agree you should have a large share of the profits !
 
BADGER.BRAD said:
I was listening to a podcast the other day which came up with an interesting idea, Instead of app makers earning big ££££ from your personnel data they should be forced to ask you if they can use it and if you agree you should have a large share of the profits !
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iPhones using the latest software do ask if you want app developers to be able to share your data.
I just say no.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Following basic security procedures should avoid that. Of course, if people followed basic security procedures, most criminals of any time would need other employment! :naughty:
Interception only works if you can decrypt the data. That's difficult in itself and banks also use one-time tokens with short lives to guard against it.
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The simple fact of the matter is that although most criminals are stupid, there are some very clever ones too. And going off-topic (unusual I know in this forum) I had an interesting conversation with someone who works in cyber security. There are lots of things that they can do to find vulnerabilities (their job is to find out what they are and then close them down) and their methods include gaining info from gullible employees by phone and by physically visiting the target as well as hacking into computers. Often, they get a job as a cleaner or similar, because cleaners have great access and out of hours too, I was told about someone who wandered into a hotel, went to a toilet, changed into pyjamas and then wandered all over the place looking lost. . . ended up finding all sorts of very confidential info stuck on walls in staff-only areas.

So, I take the minimum risks necessary with my PC but don't enlarge those risks by having apps that I don't need on my smartphone.
 
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