Weird colour problem when opening images in Windows Explorer?

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nictry

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So for the last few days I have been taking some general shots and something is very clearly wrong with the IQ of the pictures when I display them in photo viewer in Windows ie looking at the pictures through Window explorer?

I have seen the same problem with all lenses 120-400 Sigma, 10-20mm Sigma and 17-70 Sigma all show the same problem which appears to make faces and close up hair etc. images show what I can only describe as a sort of 'glow' (can't really describe it any other way) the image quality is awful and I just don't get it, what makes things stranger still is if I then upload the pictures to FlickR and view the original size it is totally perfect :shrug:

I have no idea what could be causing this issue but as you can imagine it is a nightmare deciding if I have a decent shot as without an upload to FlickR I cant actually see?

Please advise asap to try and alleviate any further worry that I may have a problem with the camera although it appears to be Windows that may be the issue???!?!?!?

Edit: Just opened the files in Photoshop and they look fine ie as they do in FlickR so def something to do with Windows exploere/picture viewer, any ideas what could be causing the problem?

Example here of the picture as it should look:
3141625926_4acfe50085.jpg


Link to full size: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/3141625926_4acfe50085_b.jpg

And here I have captured the photo as it looks in explorer using Snagit and uploaded as a saved Jpeg to Flick R

3140824955_c7322488db_o.jpg
 
What OS are you using?
Is your display calibrated?
What is the default assigned profile for your monitor?
 
I would say use something like Firefox which you can colour manage, or safari.

Do not know if that will solve your issue but give it a go.

Nigel
 
pxl8 said:
What OS are you using?
Is your display calibrated?
What is the default assigned profile for your monitor?
Click to expand...

OS is Vista, problem doesn't appear when viewing the same picture on the same monitor using Photshop and Flickr though so surely changing the colour profiles wouldn't just affect one program?
 
nictry said:
OS is Vista, problem doesn't appear when viewing the same picture on the same monitor using Photshop and Flickr though so surely changing the colour profiles wouldn't just affect one program?
Click to expand...

Depends on which apps are displaying the images, some are colour managed and some aren't. But assuming the image looks the same on flickr (using IE7) as it does in Photoshop then I think it's more likely to be a problem with how Windows Photo Gallery is scaling the full size image.

Try this:
Open a shot in Photoshop
Re-size it to 600px on the long side.
Save it as a new file
Open the new file in Windows Photo Gallery and compare to Photoshop.

Do they look the same now?
 
Yv said:
right click on desktop and select 'personlize', then click 'display settings', then 'advanced', then make sure you have got any weird colour profiles selected on the colour management tab, should be default and/or srgb profile.
Click to expand...

I am impressed :thumbs: funny enough I was just rebooting after coming across this page: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/07/11/windows-vista-photo-gallery-yellow-tint-background-problem/ which explains exactly what colour profiles are needed and that this is a known problem with viewing pictures in explorer!

The gutting thing is I have been deleting a bucketload of pictures because I thought the IQ was rubbish over Xmas when there was probably nothing wrong with them at all :bang:

Thanks to all for the swift responses but def all sorted now!!!!
 
pxl8 said:
Depends on which apps are displaying the images, some are colour managed and some aren't. But assuming the image looks the same on flickr (using IE7) as it does in Photoshop then I think it's more likely to be a problem with how Windows Photo Gallery is scaling the full size image.

Try this:
Open a shot in Photoshop
Re-size it to 600px on the long side.
Save it as a new file
Open the new file in Windows Photo Gallery and compare to Photoshop.

Do they look the same now?
Click to expand...


As above looks lije the colour profiles were the issue but from the link above looks like a Window Picture Manager specific issue, all now sorted and appreciate the quick response :thumbs:
 
nictry said:
I am impressed :thumbs: funny enough I was just rebooting after coming across this page: http://www.mydigitallife.info/2007/07/11/windows-vista-photo-gallery-yellow-tint-background-problem/ which explains exactly what colour profiles are needed and that this is a known problem with viewing pictures in explorer!

The gutting thing is I have been deleting a bucketload of pictures because I thought the IQ was rubbish over Xmas when there was probably nothing wrong with them at all :bang:

Thanks to all for the swift responses but def all sorted now!!!!
Click to expand...


:eek: :lol: no worries - now if you could tell me how to upload to flickr without flickr washing the colours out unless I 'save for web' I would very greatful! :lol:
 
Erm, Nictry - what profile did you set for the monitor?
 
Sorry to say, you've not fixed it, just broken it in a different way. Basically you've turned off colour management completely as you've told the system your monitor profile exactly matches sRGB so any app that colour manages no longer tries to adjust the display colours to match your monitor.

Not all apps support colour management. Photoshop, Windows Photo Gallery, Firefox3 (if you turn it on) do. IE7 doesn't support it.

You need to find the correct profile for you monitor, it might be on a cd that came with it or a download from the manfacturer's site. Get that installed and then the colour managed apps will display the correct colours for your monitor but apps that don't support colour management won't. Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about that other than stick to using the right apps.

The other place you need to check your colour management settings is in the Vista settings, same place you changed it for the monitor. Go to the advanced tab and make sure the top two are:
sRGB virtual device model profile
WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions

These only really affect MS apps that are colour managed but it will make sure those apps show the same results as other apps.
 
pxl8 said:
Sorry to say, you've not fixed it, just broken it in a different way. Basically you've turned off colour management completely as you've told the system your monitor profile exactly matches sRGB so any app that colour manages no longer tries to adjust the display colours to match your monitor.

Not all apps support colour management. Photoshop, Windows Photo Gallery, Firefox3 (if you turn it on) do. IE7 doesn't support it.

You need to find the correct profile for you monitor, it might be on a cd that came with it or a download from the manfacturer's site. Get that installed and then the colour managed apps will display the correct colours for your monitor but apps that don't support colour management won't. Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about that other than stick to using the right apps.

The other place you need to check your colour management settings is in the Vista settings, same place you changed it for the monitor. Go to the advanced tab and make sure the top two are:
sRGB virtual device model profile
WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions

These only really affect MS apps that are colour managed but it will make sure those apps show the same results as other apps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional info.

Have done exactly as you suggested and downloaded the latest driver for my monitor, updated the settings as above and unfortunately the end result was that I was back to seeing a horrid image :(

So although it may not be the way my eyes were intended to see the image in WPM but I have reset everything to the original fix above as at least that way I can see an image that looks something like I intended it to!
 
I have only ever seen something similar to this once (but I doubt this is exactly the same) a customer had set the settings to open images in 900x1300 (a custom setting) as default could be worth a look
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
I have only ever seen something similar to this once (but I doubt this is exactly the same) a customer had set the settings to open images in 900x1300 (a custom setting) as default could be worth a look
Click to expand...

Mine are 1680x1050 which appears to be the default for the monitor so should be OK?
 
nictry said:
Mine are 1680x1050 which appears to be the default for the monitor so should be OK?
Click to expand...


Sorry I should have been clearer ..your monitor settings are different to your image settings it could be opening them in portrait mode at a higher resolution to your vertical settings on the monitor, Can you scroll up and down on the image or is it a static image?
 
nictry said:
Thanks for the additional info.

Have done exactly as you suggested and downloaded the latest driver for my monitor, updated the settings as above and unfortunately the end result was that I was back to seeing a horrid image :(

So although it may not be the way my eyes were intended to see the image in WPM but I have reset everything to the original fix above as at least that way I can see an image that looks something like I intended it to!
Click to expand...

You can leave things this way but be aware that prints won't match and any edits you make to correct colour/brightness/etc. may actually make things worse as a result. Say for example your monitor has a blue colour cast to it so you adjust an image to make it look neutral. On the print and on a calibrated/colour managed system it will look yellow. Of course if getting accurate colours isn't the be all and end all for you then there's no reason to find a solution to the problem, which I suspect will only be solved by buying a hardware calibration device and getting a decent profile for your monitor.
 
As I say only ever seen this once and it was an old Win98 machine years ago .... never seen it on Vista or XP so clutching at straws and trying to help a bit but my knowledge of PCs now are a bit rusty
 
pxl8 said:
You can leave things this way but be aware that prints won't match and any edits you make to correct colour/brightness/etc. may actually make things worse as a result. Say for example your monitor has a blue colour cast to it so you adjust an image to make it look neutral. On the print and on a calibrated/colour managed system it will look yellow. Of course if getting accurate colours isn't the be all and end all for you then there's no reason to find a solution to the problem, which I suspect will only be solved by buying a hardware calibration device and getting a decent profile for your monitor.
Click to expand...

FWIW, my laptop runs vista and I use the default srgb profile nicty mentions. Pics all look the same regardless of whether they are in explorer, or FF browser, etc. I ran my Huey calibrator on it and the change was so small, I could only just see it and if I flick betwene the two, you blink and you cannot see any change. The pics look pretty much the same as they do on my fully calibrated and managed desktop. Now I know the screen is no where near as good as the tft the desktop has, but its close enough colour wise that using default seems to work for this particular screen - the only noticable difference is th elaptop does tend to make pics marginally more noisy, but only where significant noise is eveident in the first place. Surely that might the case here anyway - though the only way to find out for sure is to get some prints done, but then again, that in itself can cause problems as different printers [home or sent away for] may use different profiles again :shrug:


oh, and if adobe or other applications is using the same colour profile, wouldnt it all be the same anyway? :shrug::thinking:
 
pxl8 said:
You can leave things this way but be aware that prints won't match and any edits you make to correct colour/brightness/etc. may actually make things worse as a result. Say for example your monitor has a blue colour cast to it so you adjust an image to make it look neutral. On the print and on a calibrated/colour managed system it will look yellow. Of course if getting accurate colours isn't the be all and end all for you then there's no reason to find a solution to the problem, which I suspect will only be solved by buying a hardware calibration device and getting a decent profile for your monitor.
Click to expand...

I see your point, TBH though my skills and quality of prints are nowhere near good enough to worry about yet :D The odd thing is that I am sure this problem has only surfaced recently ie it was always OK in the past and I never had these weird colour issues and I haven't upgraded the monitor/graphics driver and not added any software so can't understand why it has gone funny?
 
Dangermouse1964 said:
Sorry I should have been clearer ..your monitor settings are different to your image settings it could be opening them in portrait mode at a higher resolution to your vertical settings on the monitor, Can you scroll up and down on the image or is it a static image?
Click to expand...

Static image, unless I zoom in of course :lol:
 
Yv said:
oh, and if adobe or other applications is using the same colour profile, wouldnt it all be the same anyway? :shrug::thinking:
Click to expand...

Ok, I think you're missing the basics of colour management...

The best example is to think of it in terms of language, so:

Image uses a working space such as sRGB (english)
Monitor uses a device profile such as Dell2408 (french)
Printer uses a device profile such as EpsonR360 (german)

The s/w does the translating between languages, if the image data isn't translated then it's the same as you speaking english to a french bloke, he'll just hear nonsense.

By setting your monitor to speak english (sRGB) you're basically saying don't translate the data, just send it as it is so the french bloke hears a bunch of stuff but hasn't got a clue what to do with it. Equally if you set your monitor profile to italian you're now speaking italian to the french bloke and he still doesn't understand you.

Each device has it's own unique language (profile) whereas images can use a common langauge (working space). This is where hardware calibration comes into the equation as it basically works out what language your monitor will understand. Profiles that are included with the monitors are only a rough guide so it might say you're monitor speaks english when in fact it's really a cockney so the results would be close but not perfect.

that in itself can cause problems as different printers [home or sent away for] may use different profiles again
Click to expand...

Hopefully you now understand why the printers each have their own profile, without them the translation won't work.

What this doesn't answer is why the Huey didn't make much difference with your laptop and I can't offer a definitive answer without seeing the machine. It could be some other app was running that prevented the Huey s/w from working properly (Adobe Gamma is a common cause), or that the gfx card doesn't support gamma ramps or any of a dozen other reasons. In general laptops don't calibrate very well not least because there's no way to set the colour temp of the display and they're usually way off the target of 6500k to start with.
 
Very interesting read, since I was having the same problem when I built my new desktop a year ago. At first I thought it was the monitor, since I was using a cheap adaptor to connect the monitor to my graphics card. It was giving me exactly the same results as the example posted. The best way to explain it is like viewing a 256 colour image on Windows 95. The problem was only when viewing with Vista's photo viewer software, anything from Adobe like photoshop and bridge was giving me good results on photos processed on my previous desktop which was correctly calibrated. So, being a complete noob when it comes to PC software and colour schemes, I ended up not using Picture Viewer at all and setting Nero photo viewer as the default programme since it starts up really fast, a lot faster than any of the Adobe software. Colour wise a few prints i made at home look great, if not a bit underexposed and a few prints i got from Jessops looked overexposed and some more prints I got from ASDA looked fine, so I just need to calibrate my printer and get my prints at home if I need to get the job done.
 
PXL8, Thanks again for a comprehensive understanding of the issue, I guess my problem is I don't seem to be able to fix the basic issue and therefore have no choice but to do the 'fix' suggested so not sure what else I can actually do to correct the problem 'properly'?
 
To cut a long story short, had the same prob with every PC since xp. Just don't use windows image viewer. ;)
 
With Vista's Windows Photo Gallery things have improved as it is now colour managed. Images look the same in WPG as they do in Photoshop, etc. :thumbs:
 
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