Wedding - HELP!!!!

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Kiki

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Keren
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I usually do wildlife/ scenery photography and have a number of albums on Facebook that friends look at and comment kindly on.
After seeing these pics, a friend has asked me to be photographer at her wedding in September. They are having video of the day but have very specific ideas of what pictures they want (which I suppose will be a help).

I have a Canon 40D, 100-400IS and 17-70. Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day? Do I need flash - the only problem is that it's not something I'm used to using. Very few of my pics have people in them!

Having seen some of the standard of wedding pics on here, I am hoping to get some useful advice.

Thanks
 
Wedding photography is a totally different ball game to wildlife stuff.

Tell your "friends" to stump up and hire a proper wedding tog, you go along with your camera with one lens, enjoy the day and get sozzled. No pressure for you to deliver images.........:thumbs:
 
I hope that you are good friends lol.

I would make sure that you do a pre-wedding shoot as a minimum.

The equipment is fine, although you need a back up for all of it. I would make sure that you have a flash (and practice using it for fill, although you can get away without using flash).

You will need to plan the day carefully and ensure that you have some kind of timeline and way of managing the groups.

Personally I wouldn't do it. Some people say that if you're that good a friend then you should have an invite and if not then you should be getting paid full rates.

Good luck.

Chris
 
Let me put it this way..... I'm a wedding photographer and I don't expect for one minute that I would be able to go out and shoot wildlife to any standard, either on my equipment or my skillset. I just don't know enough to do it justice.

No, you don't have the right equipment.(Sorry Chris but it's not fine) You cannot shoot a wedding on a 100-400mm! You need 24-200 mm covering.You also need f2.8 lenses both for bokeh and for shooting indoors with no flash. Yes you would also need a flash for fill and for first dance shots.

Have to agree with fracster. You would be well advised to avoid doing the job as a front line photographer, it's a long stressful day best enjoyed with a glass of champagne!
 
If you are confident in your ability to use your camera properly and assess lighting conditions and control the people you are taking photos of then I'm sure you'll do fine.

As has been said though if you are used to wildlife then you will find it is very very different.
 
its a very special day for your friend and you dont want to get it wrong and spoil it for her, so you will only have one chance of getting it right, most pros have an assistant who also takes pictures.....do you know some good poses, can you be in 2 places at once, do you know where to stand to get the best picture....etc if the answer is no then I agree she should employ a pro and you should shoot over his/her shoulder (not literally) to gain the experience.
 
sorry - dont do it

It's a magical moment for them and an unrepeatable day

they should hire a Professional - look at the quality often shown here - I would be mortified if I failed to come up to standard on "their" day......:thumbs:
 
Quick get the popcorn, another wedding thread!

If you feel confident go for it I did a high budget wedding (and we are talking £35k +) with a fuji bridge camera and the B&G were delighted with the results. It was a bit stressfull as I really didnt want to mess it up, and the brief was just informal shots. Despite this I did a normal set of formals which turned out to be some of the most popular.

Understand what the B&G want, prepare well and take sensible back up precautions and you will be fine. If you have a tog mate that will help so much the better.....
 
How can you possibly say "Go for it" when the OP does not have anything like the right equipment? Sorry guys but that's a tad irresponsible. I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion but the OP has nothing under f4, one lens is way too long and no flash or experience of using one.

I'm glad they love your wildlife images and I'm sure that given the right equipment for the job and time to prepare properly you could make a decent enough job of it but the lenses are too slow and too long for the environment you will find yourself in and to suggest otherwise is actually not doing you any favours.

And no, I'm not getting into any arguements over it, yes it's a wedding thread, over and out.
 
Kiki said:
After seeing these pics, a friend has asked me to be photographer at her wedding in September.
Click to expand...

The only think I can base my answer on is your question. So here goes:

1) Equipment. The camera isn't particularly good in low light. The lenses aren't very fast. And you only have ONE of everything.

2) Skill. You say "Very few of my pics have people in them". You ask "Do I need flash?" Think about that question. It implies that you don't have the skill to take on the job.

But even if you had 50 grands worth of kit and had spent the last decade doing portrature, I would still advise against it.

This is the most important set of photos that your friends will have taken. What happens if you can't make it, because you are in hospital? Or jail? Or on the wrong side of a volcanic ash cloud?

Advise your friends to call in the pros. Help them pick one.

Andrew
 
Honestly, I'd steer clear, unless there's no way that they can get another photographer. Your speciality isn't portrait based photography and it's alot of pressure to put on someone whose never done it before. Maybe suggest that they hire someone else but promise to take your camera along too and explain why.
 
Kiki

Sadly I agree...weddings are portraiture at a million miles an hour with the wrong light...and getting it wrong isn't an option.

I have very good friends who are awesome wildlife photographers and they say they have done weddings for their friends and bitterly regretted it.

Good luck

Steve
 
I am with Alison on this and I certainly wouldn't do it.

And I have in the past been asked by a friend who liked some of my images to do there wedding, I simply told them that although some of my pictures may be good that shooting a wedding was a whole different ball game and that I wasn't competent enough, nor well equipped enough, to take on such a huge responsibility and do it justice.
 
To be frank, the hardest part of wedding photography is people management. So even assuming you have the photographic equipment and techniques how are you at mahaging and bossing people around?

Mot a job for the feint hearted, what would you do if its raining? What if your camera stops working? Sods law says that something will go wrong!

I'm not trying to frighten you, just being realistic!
 
Kiki said:
After seeing these pics, a friend has asked me to be photographer at her wedding in September. They are having video of the day but have very specific ideas of what pictures they want (which I suppose will be a help).
Click to expand...

What kind of photo's do they want? Posed, away from the general scrum of a wedding or 'on the day' stuff? If they already have a video being made, would they be prepared to go the posed route - pics of tghe bride getting ready, the rings in close-up etc?

You could work with them in a way which would compliment the video and not place you in a position where you may not be comfortable?

Regarding help with general photography on their day, I can't help and it's a shame that you aren't getting more pointers from others regarding what you could do within your boundaries of equipment and experience in this area.

Could be that the photo's are a 'nice-to-have' on top of the video and finances do not stretch to both, so for the professionals on here, it might be nice to play nice and give some tips as to what 'can' be done as opposed to what 'can not' be done before passing judgement - then, at least, the OP can give some feedback to the couple and manage expectations.
 
OK Sam, here's a tip, if you plan on using the 100-400mm on a crop sensor camera make sure you are not in the same room as the couple!

That is why I said that lens is way too long to do anything useful.

Close up of rings shots? Sorry, no suitable kit. Shots of the bride getting ready? Sorry above f4 and no flash, going to struggle.

The 17-70mm suffers from barrel distortion at the wide end to that really limits the OP to the longer end of the range where the aperture is unsuitable for the shots required. Add that to the lack of flash or knowledge of how to use one and it is not adding up to a very successful day.

The group shots should be fine and a few B&G shots full length should be achievable.

So forgive me for not telling the OP how they CAN shoot the day. Honestly? It's not possible with that equipment. THAT's why I replied that it might not be a good idea. I passed judgment on the equipment the OP has and the "Can not's" outweigh the "Cans" hence my reply. (with apologies to the OP for this reply but just being nice about it does not get the job done, hopefully you can appreciate that there is no way I'd be out trying to shoot wildlife tomorrow and I don't wish to offend but equally I have no wish to encourage you into an environment where you are set up to fail, that would be irresponsible of me)
 
AliB - thanks for the handslap, much appreciated!

Why don't you give a few pointers or advice as opposed to the 'you can't do it' comment?

"So forgive me for not telling the OP how they CAN shoot the day. Honestly? It's not possible with that equipment. THAT's why I replied that it might not be a good idea."

I KNOW that, which is why I asked about the other shots they may want, what they are looking for and how they want the photo's taken by a friend to compliment the video.

You do not address, at any time, what the bride wants, whether the bride is all for a few snaps to go with the video, what someone eho has not done this before can expect.

As for the request for 'useful advice', I guess the OP lucked out and that's a shame.
 
Sam, I shoot weddings. So my comments are from a position of knowledge.

It's not a game, it's not a case of "Be nice" There IS NO WAY round the shortcomings of the equipment on offer.

No flash? So no fill, no decent lighting for a cake cutting, no first dance, no bridal prep either with the ISO performance of a 40D with an f4 lens.

Would you like me to go through the whole day telling you exactly why most of the coverage is going to be a problem?

There are no pointers I can give, that's the point! We are effectively down to one body, one lens because the 100-400 on a crop sensor is WAY too long to be of any use whatsoever.

On that one lens the wide end distorts but yes you could shoot a bride on the end of a bed in her dress but that's about it. And at the other end it's just not fast enough so you are going to struggle to get shots without motion blur in them because you cannot get a fast enough shutter speed at the apertures and ISO you will need to be shooting at.

So from the whole day we are effectively left with perhaps 2 shots of the bride getting ready so long as they are well lit, one of her getting out the car. None of the ceremony because the lenses are not right, the group shots should be fine and some of the B&G full length should also be OK. After that you will struggle with cake cutting and you have no chance at the speeches or first dance.

So there you go, the underlying reasons why I am advising against it. It's not about providing a few "other shots" it's about providing ALL of them. Rose coloured spectacles aside the odds are honestly not in the OP's favour and to pretend that you can shoot a wedding effectively with the equipment the OP has access to is unlikely to do them any favours. That's my point.

We could all queue up with a "go for it" attitude and when the OP fails and the couple get very little of any use (again apologies to the OP for the assumption) where does that leave our poor OP and worse where does it leave the couple? I stand by my original comment that the equipment is unsuitable based on experience.

And that really IS where I'm leaving this thread because anything else is going to be of little use to the OP. A positive attitude is not the only thing you require to shoot a wedding properly.
 
~Sam~ said:
As for the request for 'useful advice', I guess the OP lucked out and that's a shame.
Click to expand...

Not at all, the OP got some very useful advice from some very experienced photographers.
 
Here's a piece of advice that Ali could have easily come up with if it wasn't for the urge to stress the CAN NOT'S. Do you have the option to borrow a fast lens and a flash for the day? A 50mm would be ideal or even a 24-70mm if you have the right friends. If you have the ability then getting the equipment is probably the easy part.

Ali forgets that anyone without thousands of pounds worth of training can have ability.
 
-Rob- said:
Here's a piece of advice that Ali could have easily come up with if it wasn't for the urge to stress the CAN NOT'S. Do you have the option to borrow a fast lens and a flash for the day? A 50mm would be ideal or even a 24-70mm if you have the right friends. If you have the ability then getting the equipment is probably the easy part.

Ali forgets that anyone without thousands of pounds worth of training can have ability.
Click to expand...

well said :clap::clap::clap:
 
AliB said:
We are effectively down to one body, one lens because the 100-400 on a crop sensor is WAY too long to be of any use whatsoever.
Click to expand...


P'ah! Get creative. Get 100 yds away. Perfect length. All these bloody wedding togs who have to get up close and personal......... :lol:

That by the way (for anyone who reads it) is 100% intended as a joke! ;)



I am not a professional photographer (though I have sold a print! :thumbs:) - and have never shot a wedding - but read a lot of the wedding threads, and I would say the advice from AliB is Spot on......

Wrong equipment.
Lack of Experience.
One chance.


The landscape won't change that much, so if you mess up today it will be there tomorrow, one kingfisher is the same as another (more or less) however not having seen one, that's a guess as well..... but on something like this you have one chance.

I pretty much guarantee if I said "Ali B, how did you feel on 1st Wedding as lead tog?" the response wouild be somewhere between "nervous" and "bricking it."

Not trying to discourage, but there was another thread on here a while back where the couple hired a pro who was more than happy for the enthusiatic amateur / good mate etc work (for free) as a 2nd / candid....... Is that an option? (Still need something around 28-200 though)
 
-Rob- said:
Here's a piece of advice that Ali could have easily come up with if it wasn't for the urge to stress the CAN NOT'S. Do you have the option to borrow a fast lens and a flash for the day? A 50mm would be ideal or even a 24-70mm if you have the right friends. If you have the ability then getting the equipment is probably the easy part.

Ali forgets that anyone without thousands of pounds worth of training can have ability.
Click to expand...

Or maybe she just honestly thinks that the best advice she can possibly give is not to shoot the wedding?
 
-Rob- said:
Here's a piece of advice that Ali could have easily come up with if it wasn't for the urge to stress the CAN NOT'S. Do you have the option to borrow a fast lens and a flash for the day? A 50mm would be ideal or even a 24-70mm if you have the right friends. If you have the ability then getting the equipment is probably the easy part.

Ali forgets that anyone without thousands of pounds worth of training can have ability.
Click to expand...

But OP has said that they DON'T have the ability, they shoot largely wildlife and landscapes... VERY different ability to weddings.

I shoot high pressure big events all the time, so in many ways I guess I posess the right set of skills technically and photographically to shoot weddings, but do I go around advertising myself as a wedding photographer? Hell no, there's a lot of even non-photographic skills involved in weddings that I just don't have. I could probably learn, but still, I don't have them. And seeing as you have to nail every shot... you've got to be very lucky...

The 'you can take an amazing photo whatever equipment you have' thing is very well and nice, for the occasions that you don't HAVE to deliver to spec and in a 'one chance' situation. In these cases...well, you could get lucky, or you could cock up, big time.

OP, take your 17-70 or get a 50mm 1.8, have some drinks and take a few snaps, you'll have a great day and some cool photos to take from it. Politely explain to your friends that taking photos of birds or landscapes is very different to people photography, and that you'll happily take candids while you're wandering around, but that they should hire in a professional who will _definitely_ get the shots that they will want to have to treasure their day.
 
-Rob- said:
Ali forgets that anyone without thousands of pounds worth of training can have ability.
Click to expand...

AliB does not forget so please don't patronise Rob. AliB remembers all too well how long it took her to learn to balance flash with ambient and how long it took her to learn which surfaces and at what distance it was safe to bounce a flash, and how to fill flash on A as opposed to using M and also how long it took her to learn about colour temperature and how to either balance or exaggerate the difference between the two. Oh and how to drag a shutter and cross light.

So I take it our OP is supposed to have some innate ability to do that with a borrowed flash in no time at all?

So go on, shoot a wedding with a macro ring light and a holga for all I care just don't come crying when it all goes a bit Pete Tong. :cuckoo:

Good night all :)
 
AliB said:
Sam, I shoot weddings. So my comments are from a position of knowledge.

It's not a game, it's not a case of "Be nice" There IS NO WAY round the shortcomings of the equipment on offer.

No flash? So no fill, no decent lighting for a cake cutting, no first dance, no bridal prep either with the ISO performance of a 40D with an f4 lens.

Would you like me to go through the whole day telling you exactly why most of the coverage is going to be a problem?

There are no pointers I can give, that's the point! We are effectively down to one body, one lens because the 100-400 on a crop sensor is WAY too long to be of any use whatsoever.

On that one lens the wide end distorts but yes you could shoot a bride on the end of a bed in her dress but that's about it. And at the other end it's just not fast enough so you are going to struggle to get shots without motion blur in them because you cannot get a fast enough shutter speed at the apertures and ISO you will need to be shooting at.

So from the whole day we are effectively left with perhaps 2 shots of the bride getting ready so long as they are well lit, one of her getting out the car. None of the ceremony because the lenses are not right, the group shots should be fine and some of the B&G full length should also be OK. After that you will struggle with cake cutting and you have no chance at the speeches or first dance.

So there you go, the underlying reasons why I am advising against it. It's not about providing a few "other shots" it's about providing ALL of them. Rose coloured spectacles aside the odds are honestly not in the OP's favour and to pretend that you can shoot a wedding effectively with the equipment the OP has access to is unlikely to do them any favours. That's my point.

We could all queue up with a "go for it" attitude and when the OP fails and the couple get very little of any use (again apologies to the OP for the assumption) where does that leave our poor OP and worse where does it leave the couple? I stand by my original comment that the equipment is unsuitable based on experience.

And that really IS where I'm leaving this thread because anything else is going to be of little use to the OP. A positive attitude is not the only thing you require to shoot a wedding properly.
Click to expand...

I either did not make my comments clear enough for you, or you chose to ignore them and focus upon your position as a wedding photographer rather than asking a few questions of the OP regarding what s/he wished to achieve or whether or not there are alternatives.

As you say (again) that you are leaving the thread, you give me a little down time as I don't, therefore, need to address the majority of your comments.

To the OP, you have some time to gain an insight as to what you need to do (practice with people as opposed to animals! ;) ) gain advise as to the kit you may want to use, work out juyst how you wish to approach this, and I wish you all the best with that - talk to the B&G and see what you can work out and what they expect of you and then take a view as to whether you can deliver.
 
Or hiring lenses and flash may be an option?

I've just looked and on lenses for hire you can hire a 24-70 f2.8 for £64 for a week, can't see flashes on there but I'd have thought you could hire a good extra kit for the week for £200 or less, hopefully give you a couple days to practise beforehand.

Only thing I've noticed on this forum is how many people say get them to hire a pro, the few people who I've known get married have had nothing fancier than a friend with a bridge camera, I didn't even realise many people hired a pro until a year or 2 ago. The fact is the wedding photos just aren't important enough for a lot of people to pay out for.

If the B&G are happy that the pics may not be as good as a pro (and I trust you've said this to them?) then it's their choice if they'd rather not spend hundreds on it.
 
The OP has done a runner, probably thinks what a bunch of arsey sods! :lol:
 
Just to ignore the usual wedding thread car crash for a moment but do you actually want to do this? If not, say no and be done with it. If it is a yes, then real thought will have to be given to kit and skills. You need a second body. You need f2.8 lenses for the reasons stated above and you will need a flash for certain situations. If you don't usually shoot people then you need to shoot lots and quick.

From my perspective as an amateur with similar kit, I would not touch it with a barge pole. I would happily disappoint a friend knowing they would get decent pics from their wedding
 
AliB said:
AliB remembers all too well how long it took her to learn to balance flash with ambient and how long it took her to learn which surfaces and at what distance it was safe to bounce a flash, and how to fill flash on A as opposed to using M and also how long it took her to learn about colour temperature and how to either balance or exaggerate the difference between the two. Oh and how to drag a shutter and cross light.
Click to expand...

Do you really need to have all of those skills to do a wedding day? I had no idea! :D
 
Kiki said:
but have very specific ideas of what pictures they want (which I suppose will be a help).
Click to expand...

That should be warning enough. Your friend does not sound like the type of client who is very tight on the budget and will accept any photos. I am with AliB on this one and think that unless you have shot a wedding or two yourself, I don't think people understand the level of work involved.

Don't bite of more than you can chew, as mentioned previously, point your friend to an experienced tog and do her (and yourself) a favour.
 
Don't listen to anyone on here Keren ..... Go for it.

No offence intended but ....

The couple deserve everything they get if they are willing to hire someone off the back of a few zoo shots.

Next time you speak to them can you ask if they need a caterer? .... I made a Pot Noodle last night and think I may be ready for a wedding.
 
Kiki said:
I usually do wildlife/ scenery photography and have a number of albums on Facebook that friends look at and comment kindly on.
After seeing these pics, a friend has asked me to be photographer at her wedding in September. They are having video of the day but have very specific ideas of what pictures they want (which I suppose will be a help).
Probably not going to be a help, they should get what they're given if you're doing it free but at least it gives you direction

I have a Canon 40D, 100-400IS and 17-70. Will this be enough or do I need to borrow something else for the day? Do I need flash - the only problem is that it's not something I'm used to using. Very few of my pics have people in them!
Ideally borrow a camera with better low light ability or learn a lot about flash quickly and yeah you need to get hold of one, dump the 100-400 as it'll be 95% useless the 17-70 might be ok

Having seen some of the standard of wedding pics on here, I am hoping to get some useful advice.
Best advice most people are giving is don't do it, if it's not something you're actually interested in doing even for fun i'd not even bother, if you must do it make sure they know they get what they're given

Thanks
Click to expand...

+2p in bold :)
 
itsdavedotnet said:
But OP has said that they DON'T have the ability
Click to expand...
Actually the OP never actually said that, it's just been an assumption that most people have made.

AliB said:
AliB does not forget so please don't patronise Rob. AliB remembers all too well how long it took her to learn to balance flash with ambient and how long it took her to learn which surfaces and at what distance it was safe to bounce a flash, and how to fill flash on A as opposed to using M and also how long it took her to learn about colour temperature and how to either balance or exaggerate the difference between the two. Oh and how to drag a shutter and cross light.
Click to expand...
I think you've just proved my point perfectly.
 
OK re read the OP and heres a bit more:

- As has been said a lot of it is about people management, you will need to be confident and assertive.
- As a competent photographer, the pictures you will take may not be up to the best pros standard, but they will be far better than the B&G are used to seeing from their point and shoot and as such they are likely to be pleased with them
- If groups are involved do the largest group first, then take people away, if you do the B&G first then try and add people you will be herding cats!
- Visit the venue beforehand, see where the sun will be at the time of day you will be shooting
- look for suitable arches/staircases/doorways and decent backgrounds for taking pictures of the bridesmaids etc against. If you can take a friend with you to pose and take some test shots it will help to boost your confidence.
- If its an open park type venue choose your location to avoid the classic trees growing out of heads syndrome (and of course with the sun behind you watch out for the trademark photographers shadow in the photo!). Before pressing the shutter look all around the frame for distractions....
- Think up some unusual shots, for a large group I counted to 3 and got everyone to throw their arms in the air and shout hooray - worked brilliantly and was one of the best shots of the wedding, even though the groom thought I was mad at the time!
- Take your time and dont let any groups go until you are happy with the shots
- If you can get a second shooter (ask on here you never know) do, it will take some pressure off.
- Shoot in RAW (with jpg if you want/your camera allows) which will allow you to correct many exposure or colour balance issues. Most of the jpgs will be fine but RAW will allow more corrections for the few shots where you may need it.

The day will be hard work, but you will be very pleased / relieved after the event (and probably be wondering what all the fuss was about!!!

Then post some of your best shots on here to confound the critics!!!

The big benefit with digital is that if you have muffed the shot you will know straight away and you can retake the shot
 
-Rob- said:
Actually the OP never actually said that, it's just been an assumption that most people have made.


I think you've just proved my point perfectly.
Click to expand...

The OP says she does not shoot people so I think it's a pretty fair assumtion that there may be a few skills not in that particular bag.

As for making your point Rob, your point seems to be that it is perfectly acceptable to take a job on with absolutely no experience and from a position of complete ignorance on how to use some of the equipment. Well done.

And no I did not spend thousands on learning how to use flash, I did get a couple of DVD's, a book and set about practicing. I also listened and learned from others when I've been out second shooting. Did not cost a fortune but has been learned in the first place. Just because I am a vocal advocate of training some around here seem to see it as somehow a bad thing. I do wish you would explain how you think the accumulation of knowledge of a chosen subject is such a disadvantage!

Now, I really must go because I'm actually off on another training day! This one is on portrait lighting anywhere and if I pick up one little bit of knowledge, one little skill that I don't yet have then my toolbox will have more quality tools in it at the end of the day. Really bad of me! :shake:
 
I'm with Alison on this one I'm affraid, bad idea unless you have the skills and equipment needed.
If you want some advice for if you do go ahead with it, read ALL of this, quite useful and lets you know how the day entails and the types of photos you should be getting;
http://www.all-things-photography.com/wedding-photography-tips.html
 
Folks - I'm with Ali here. kiki - I admire your passion and desire to do the best by your friend. I'm 100% certain that as a friend you wouldn't want to let her down and it's already quite clear that you don't have the skill set/experience/kit/confidence to do the job well.

I'd be happy to help out if you would like me to. Maybe I could shoot the wedding for your friend and you could act as assistant/second shooter? That way you would still have that "job" on the day but without the pressure :) Let me know where you are in the UK - if you're miles away then this plan will fall flat on its face. But if you're reasonably local and both you and your friend think it's a good idea then it might be an ideal solution.

Check out my website, search Ryan Jarvis Photography on Facebook, see my flikr link and check out a couple of my recent threads on here:-

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=224559

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=229104

I don't wish to suggest you couldn't do a decent job. But I think from what you've said yourself it might be soooo stressful for you. I think you'd certainly find it hard to enjoy your friends wedding. I'm about to shoot my first "friends wedding" in July and I've done loads in the last 15 months or so. If he'd asked me to do it when I first started out I would have had a heart attck!!

Anyway, I hope my suggestion helps and maybe hear from you soon.

All the best
 
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