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stevewestern

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I use Chrome most of the time, out of habit rather than me knowing anything about browsers, but I also have firefox on my laptop which has just updated and they are pushing a VPN.
Now I know very very little about them, except that they cost a bit, can allow access to Netflix etc from other countries and offer better privacy, I think.
Is that about it ?

Are they worth the cost for someone like me - I don't frequent many dodgy sites (aside from this one obviously) and don't miss Namibian Netflix but do wonder and slightly worry about being hacked and am not computer savvy enough to know how to protect myself so a simple solution would be good - is a VPN one ?
 
stevewestern said:
Are they worth the cost for someone like me - I don't frequent many dodgy sites (aside from this one obviously) and don't miss Namibian Netflix but do wonder and slightly worry about being hacked and am not computer savvy enough to know how to protect myself so a simple solution would be good - is a VPN one ?
Click to expand...

You might notice that many (if not most) sites you visit these days use HTTPS and the interchanges with them that you have are actually encrypted.

This means that there is often very little information being sent 'in the clear' on a regular connection.

The privacy benefit of these public VPN products is IMO being a bit oversold.

Where they have distinct usefulness is - as you say - changing your apparent location for media access - and in some situations allowing you to get around site access restrictions related to some countries / hotels / airlines / public wifi.
 
Dryce said:
You might notice that many (if not most) sites you visit these days use HTTPS and the interchanges with them that you have are actually encrypted.

This means that there is often very little information being sent 'in the clear' on a regular connection.

The privacy benefit of these public VPN products is IMO being a bit oversold.

Where they have distinct usefulness is - as you say - changing your apparent location for media access - and in some situations allowing you to get around site access restrictions related to some countries / hotels / airlines / public wifi.
Click to expand...
Thanks Andrew, a very clear and easy to understand reply, much appreciated !
 
I use Cloudfare 1.1.1.1 Warp, on my iPad & elsewhere, which I don’t think is a VPN but seems similar.

I don’t use it all the time but sometimes I find sites refuse to load (including TP) for no apparent reason* but will if I turn 1.1.1.1 on! No idea why.

* I think the message is “no internet connection” (hasn’t happened for a while), but it’s not true and most sites still work :(.
 
"Use VPN for privacy" is only valid if your internet service provider (ISP) spies on your usage. But then, in doing so, you are effectively trusting the VPN provider to not log and spy on your activities. I certainly wouldn't use any VPN for banking, I'd place my trust in my ISP who are setup under UK law.

The real purpose of VPN use is to appear as inside a network. Most workplaces use it for working from home. I use my self-hosted one when away from home to access home resources.

For general internet browsing, VPN is not needed as explained, HTTPS is designed to secure your connection end-to-end. Without S at end of HTTP, even with VPN your data is liable to be picked up by bad characters between the VPN provider and destination server. So it's a good idea to enable the browser option to force HTTPS whenever possible.

The only useful VPN use-case for general browsing is when you are connected to an open unencrypted wifi access point. Anyone with a radio receiver can then listen to your wifi activity. HTTPS can defend against this, but VPN ensures ALL traffic through the wifi access point is encrypted.



1.1.1.1 is a DNS server. This is a service that translates website address to computer IP addresses. It's often good idea to not use ISP provided DNS because the most basic logging can be done via DNS query. 1.1.1.1 is from Cloudflare and 8.8.8.8 is provided by Google.

I personally use openDNS for this, cached by AdGuard on my local network to remove most adverts across my whole network on all devices. (another reason I'd VPN into my home, for the adblocking. Some VPN providers does provide adblocking service)
 
Indeed, VPN sales depend on paranoia.

I'd trust UK-based ISP's more than third world county based VPN providers.

But sending anything unencrypted online is literally shouting in a crowded place. Simplest and free way to stay secure is to just enable HTTPS only mode.
Firefox: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/https-only-prefs
Your data is secure between your machine and the destination. You'll get warned when sites doesn't offer secure connection, making it easy to stay secure.

For iOS safari:
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/mk3x88
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/mk3x88/does_safari_force_https_everywhere/

I'm sure Android browsers have similar option.
 
As well as providing security from snooping on public wifi, a VPN provides a different type of privacy to HTTPS. Without a VPN, every site you visit knows your real IP address and can have a pretty good shot at determining your physical location, even over HTTPS, which is obviously useful to them for invasive tracking and many other purposes you might not like. This page from one of the VPN providers demonstrates this:
nordvpn.com

What is my IP address location? Find out here

Check your IP address in a moment here! Did you know that there are different types of IP? Click here to find out how to protect yourself online.
nordvpn.com nordvpn.com
Without a VPN, your ISP and local spy agency will also know every site you visit (even if they can't read the content because it's over HTTPS), including embarrassing sites like https://furrymate.com/ , https://www.conservatives.com/ and https://www.kenrockwell.com/ . Some VPN providers claim to keep no records, unlike your ISP. And when you miscreants are torrenting the new James Bond film from your unprotected IP address, without a VPN you will be at the mercy of the Piracy Police:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
 
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Retune said:
As well as providing security from snooping on public wifi, a VPN provides a different type of privacy to HTTPS. Without a VPN, every site you visit knows your real IP address and can have a pretty good shot at determining your physical location, even over HTTPS, which is obviously useful to them for invasive tracking and many other purposes you might not like. This page from one of the VPN providers demonstrates this:
nordvpn.com

What is my IP address location? Find out here

Check your IP address in a moment here! Did you know that there are different types of IP? Click here to find out how to protect yourself online.
nordvpn.com nordvpn.com
Without a VPN, your ISP and local spy agency will also know every site you visit (even if they can't read the content because it's over HTTPS), including embarrassing sites like https://furrymate.com/ , https://www.conservatives.com/ and https://www.kenrockwell.com/ . Some VPN providers claim to keep no records, unlike your ISP. And when you miscreants are torrenting the new James Bond film from your unprotected IP address, without a VPN you will be at the mercy of the Piracy Police:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALZZx1xmAzg
Click to expand...
Well, that Nord IP finder thinks I am something like 45 miles from where I actually am ;)
 
Box Brownie said:
Well, that Nord IP finder thinks I am something like 45 miles from where I actually am ;)
Click to expand...
It says I’m near Edinburgh rather than near Leeds ;).
 
The location finder is pretty accurate for my IP, less than a mile from where I'm sitting. Of course if you're on a phone, you are probably feeding advertisers your actual GPS location too, and they have lots of other ways to mine your data. Interesting thread:
View: https://BANNED/robertgreeve/status/1397032784703655938
 
Retune said:
The location finder is pretty accurate for my IP, less than a mile from where I'm sitting. Of course if you're on a phone, you are probably feeding advertisers your actual GPS location too, and they have lots of other ways to mine your data. Interesting thread:
View: https://BANNED/robertgreeve/status/1397032784703655938
Click to expand...
I have no reason to have "location services" turned on on my phone ;)

Maybe turn it off on your phone and see if the IP finder places you at the same place???
 
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Box Brownie said:
I have no reason to have "location services" turned on on my phone ;)

Maybe turn it off on your phone and see if the IP finder places you at the same place???
Click to expand...
The IP geolocation thing is separate (I'm typing this on a PC). There are large databases of IP addresses and their mapped locations that can be tapped into, some free, some paid and presumably more accurate (a better database than Nord's might know you are not in Scotland!).
 
I wonder if the accuracy of the physical location of an IP address depends on the ISP and which PoP you are 'connected' to and as such where that PoP is linked to the backbone service.

Plus, query any impact of open ports and mine is, based on GRC scanner, in stealth mode i.e. other than my IP the PC does not exist.
 
Retune said:
every site you visit knows your real IP address
Click to expand...
This is true. Could be a concern for some.
Retune said:
Without a VPN, your ISP and local spy agency will also know every site you visit (even if they can't read the content because it's over HTTPS),
Click to expand...
Depends on their logging mechanism. If you use third party DNS like I mentioned earlier, they can only log destination IP addresses, makes it harder to track without snapshot of the DNS at the same time.

Ideally, because I like to automate everything because I'm lazy. I'd want my router to have a whitelist of websites that are allowed through without routing through VPN (banking, crypto, gov sites, etc). Route everything else through VPN to prevent the above 2 very valid privacy concerns.
But it's too hard to setup and I'm not concerned enough. My ISP Zen has historically pushed back against internet policing, so I trust them.
 
Yeah, I always use a vpn when

1. I'm on public WiFi - watch some videos on man in the middle attacks to be convinced and remember that your email account can be a vector to a whole load of nastiness.

2. When I'm on 4 game want to look at martial arts supplies or how new stuff. Virgin mobile block these unless you ask them to turn the grown up filters off.

Opera has a good enough one built in for what I need. Our vpn monster on a tablet /phone. But more often than not, I want my devices to know where I am :)
 
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