Viewfinder brightness???

antonroland

antonroland

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O.K. so I have too much time on my hands today and now I think about these things...:bonk::lol:

Is viewfinder brightness a relic from our film days / times when lenses actually stopped down to the selected f/stop?

Do we NEED it nowadays or is it simply a handy feature preserved by virtue of the prohibitive cost implications of redesigns?

Just curious:D
 
i don't understand the question :thinking:
 
It's bloody obvious what he means.

It's...well er.....er :thinking:

You feeling alright Anton?

Bob
 
think he means that as you stop down, the viewfinder brightness stays the same...the actual stopping down doesn't happen until you shoot :shrug:

although if you have DOF preview button you can see the effect of stopping down before shooting.
 
kfridge said:
think he means that as you stop down, the viewfinder brightness stays the same...the actual stopping down doesn't happen until you shoot :shrug:

although if you have DOF preview button you can see the effect of stopping down before shooting.
Click to expand...

I wondered that he was talking about the DoF preview - but it's anything but clear

Oh, and I always thought it was useless as by f8-f11 it was too dark to tell anyway

DD
 
kfridge said:
think he means that as you stop down, the viewfinder brightness stays the same...the actual stopping down doesn't happen until you shoot :shrug:

although if you have DOF preview button you can see the effect of stopping down before shooting.
Click to expand...

I pondered that but then dismissed it.

Film cameras have been stopping down for the shot since the early seventies at least...Anton's not that old.

Redesign cost wouldn't be an issue as the lenses/bodies would be cheaper without this function.

Still :thinking:'ing.

Bob
 
do you guys not have the special 'lightbulb' function on your cameras? you flick a switch to turn the light on in your viewfinder if it's a bit dark? :lol:
 
"praps he's been on the old pinotage again, great wine but strong......:thinking::thinking:
 
Well, you've created a discussion...... mainly about your question! :lol:
 
Anton Roland said:
It is not a question, it is a discussion...:lol:
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Anton....questions have a question mark after them.

Discussions are like the questions my wife asks me and then tells me why I'm wrong.

Bob
 
Anton, what do you mean by "viewfinder brightness" and how would using a camera be different without it?
 
George said:
"praps he's been on the old pinotage again, great wine but strong......:thinking::thinking:
Click to expand...

Shiraz, actually...:suspect:

Boy, does news travel...:suspect::eek::D

What I was referring to was 1D viewfinders being brighter than, say, the 5D and the 40D being brighter than the 20/30D...

Now I know that prisms and mirrors play a role and the merits of a pop-up flash and all that have an influence but the question in my mind is that of the brightness being a factor of camera grade...pro / amateur?

It would seem that the better the camera, the brighter the viewfinder...

Why did this come about?

If lenses have been stopping down automatically since the 70's why was a bright viewfinder a big deal? Bragging rights?

Oh I say dear boy you need to get yourself a proper camera with a bright viewfinder...(???):shrug:
 
Here's my problem Anton...

"Is viewfinder brightness a relic from our film days"

I don't get what that bit means, let alone whether we need it or not

IMO, it sounds like you're asking if we need look through the viewfinder at all (i.e. a live-view question)

If you mean the DoF preview - then I doubt we ever needed it, and as we can see the onscreen effect after shooting a 'test' image then I'd say NO we don't need it

Am I on the right lines now?

:shrug:

DD
 
thanks for expanding on the discussion

i have not noticed the 1d viewfinder being brighter - although it is bigger

i think a bright viewfinder is inportant as you need to see the subject - i cant see canon getting many sales by saying "viewfinder darker then the last camera"
 
DiddyDave said:
O I C (at last)

I always thought a brighter viewfinder on cameras was err a good thing?

Do we need bright/clear viewfinders now?

Damn right we do

DD
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Ahh, O.K.

Why?
 
i assume you are saying, you look through the viewfinder, and the brightness of what you are shooting is different depending on the camera?? if not, im completely confused and need it describing in real lame mans terms. prob dont help i aint used an old film slr:shrug:
 
I would hazzard a guess that viewfinders will get brighter as AF sensors become more sensitive and need less light.

Bob
 
attachment.php


Here is somthing I knicked from another forum. Not brightness but size.
 
I have wondered this too for a while. When they bring out like a new 1D they are always saying "Brighter viewfinder" - always wondered how and why they were brighter. Never noticed the viewfinder being "dull" on my 350D or 40D - it is purely that as they become larger naturally there is more light making them brighter?
 
sportysnaps said:
- i cant see canon getting many sales by saying "viewfinder darker then the last camera"
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:lol:must agree on that point:D

Thing is, the viewfinder can be as bright as the morning star...if you have a bum lens fitted to it, it is limited to the best f of that lens...

All that remains in my mind then is the idea that the better the camera, the brighter the viewfinder should be...

and then the other factor turns it all upside down for me when one considers that only 1D central AF points will work at f/8...needing less light then...:bonk::thumbs:
 
fletch5 said:
i assume you are saying, you look through the viewfinder, and the brightness of what you are shooting is different depending on the camera?? if not, im completely confused and need it describing in real lame mans terms. prob dont help i aint used an old film slr:shrug:
Click to expand...

You are spot-on...
 
I want some of what Anton's drinking today. :lol:

A brighter viewfinder is a huge aid to focusing and composing your image on that ground glass screen, which is one of the main advantages in using an SLR. One of the reasons f1 lenses cost a bomb, if you can find one, isn't for their great optical virtues at f1, it's for their ability to operate in light where you just gotsta get the picture at all costs.

Check out the difference in the mirror size between your old 35mm film camera, a full frame digital camera, and a crop sensor camera. The smaller mirror diverts much less light up onto that focusing screen - hence the dimmer viewfinder.

Fully automatic diaphragms have been around a long time - I had one back in the 60's. Obviously with your lens also being your viewfinder, it's a big advantage for the aperture to stay wide open until the moment of exposure.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
I have wondered this too for a while. When they bring out like a new 1D they are always saying "Brighter viewfinder" - always wondered how and why they were brighter. Never noticed the viewfinder being "dull" on my 350D or 40D - it is purely that as they become larger naturally there is more light making them brighter?
Click to expand...

It's partly down to focusing screen development too Jimmy. There are tiny little facets all over that screen which are designed to catch as much light as possible, and they're under continual development. Some replacement screens are actually advertised as being brighter than others.
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
I have wondered this too for a while. When they bring out like a new 1D they are always saying "Brighter viewfinder" - always wondered how and why they were brighter. Never noticed the viewfinder being "dull" on my 350D or 40D - it is purely that as they become larger naturally there is more light making them brighter?
Click to expand...

Yep!

Which begs the question:Why???

Are the "lesser" cameras progressively brought closer to the 1D???

Surely the 1D range of cameras all come from the 1V (film) basic design and this design,similar to the lens mount - EF has not changed dramatically???:shrug:

Now, the (EOS 1) film cameras (I am told) already had lenses stopping down automatically since the 70's which has to predate the EOS 1V and deffo the EF mount...

So why the need for such a bright viewfinder other than for DOF preview????






:DThis is starting to make less sense than fov crop relativities to shutter speeds...:bonk::D
 
CT said:
I want some of what Anton's drinking today. :lol:

A brighter viewfinder is a huge aid to focusing and composing your image on that ground glass screen, which is one of the main advantages in using an SLR. One of the reasons f1 lenses cost a bomb, if you can find one, isn't for their great optical virtues at f1, it's for their ability to operate in light where you just gotsta get the picture at all costs.

Check out the difference in the mirror size between your old 35mm film camera, a full frame digital camera, and a crop sensor camera. The smaller mirror diverts much less light up onto that focusing screen - hence the dimmer viewfinder.

Fully automatic diaphragms have been around a long time - I had one back in the 60's. Obviously with your lens also being your viewfinder, it's a big advantage for the aperture to stay wide open until the moment of exposure.
Click to expand...

And I am also told that prism roofs are superior to mirror roofs where brightness of viewfinder is concerned:shrug:
 
chuckles said:
Well, you've created a discussion...... mainly about your question! :lol:
Click to expand...

Aint it great:lol:

How's married life?








I suppose I can hijack my own thread ever so slightly...:D
 
Eau Rouge said:
Anton, what do you mean by "viewfinder brightness" and how would using a camera be different without it?
Click to expand...

E.R.

What I mean, and I hope it has become clear in the discussion by now, is the amount of light perceived whilst looking through the viewfinder.

It is pretty much a factor of camera design (dslr or p&s)
 
My Film Rebel's viewfinder is bigger and brighter than my 30D's. I've seen the difference described as "like looking at the image at the other end of a long tube". It's a bit like watching TV with a 32" TV or a 40" one. You don't *need* the extra inches, but they are nice to have. When you do stop down the lens (DoF Preview) the extra brightness can be useful given how dark everything gets.

"Brighter" isn't half as important as "Bigger" though. I'd love a viewfinder that covered at least 100% of what the sensor was going to capture, rather than the 90% that's more common now. Given that the image circle of the lens is usually bigger than the sensor, a viewfinder that actually gave slightly more than 100% would be magical.
 
Anton Roland said:
Now I know that prisms and mirrors play a role and the merits of a pop-up flash and all that have an influence but the question in my mind is that of the brightness being a factor of camera grade...pro / amateur?
Click to expand...


Well DUH! :p The money you pay for a "pro" model means everything, is improved, this obviously includes internal optical elements. Better elements - better transmission - more light in viewfinder.
 
Eau Rouge said:
My Film Rebel's viewfinder is bigger and brighter than my 30D's. I've seen the difference described as "like looking at the image at the other end of a long tube". It's a bit like watching TV with a 32" TV or a 40" one. You don't *need* the extra inches, but they are nice to have. When you do stop down the lens (DoF Preview) the extra brightness can be useful given how dark everything gets.

"Brighter" isn't half as important as "Bigger" though. I'd love a viewfinder that covered at least 100% of what the sensor was going to capture, rather than the 90% that's more common now. Given that the image circle of the lens is usually bigger than the sensor, a viewfinder that actually gave slightly more than 100% would be magical.
Click to expand...

Don't know if that there extra brightness means much when you stop down to f/32 for a landscape...

Personally, I would be ecstatic with a perfect 100% view - WYSIWIG...
 
Film SLR viewfinders are an absolute joy to use compared to that of a cropped dSLR. Using my film camera and then moving to my 10D is quite disheartening. one of the main reasons I aim to more to a full frame camera is for the improved view finder :)
 
Not only brighter but bigger viewfinder views help massively too. Especially with action and panning with things i've found.
 
Anton Roland said:
How's married life?

I suppose I can hijack my own thread ever so slightly :D
Click to expand...

Well, I certainly haven't got anything to complain about. Life is great.

The lady looks after me ...... most excellent!

Still sorting out honeymoon pics....
.. so, I guess you can say the honeymoon isn't over!
 
Great to hear that...may your honeymoon never end:thumbs:
 
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