Using a light meter with Lencarta Safari - help please :)

moomike

moomike

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Hi all,

I can't help but think this is a really, really stupid question as I like to think I am used to metering for strobes & speed lights so am sure I should be able to easily figure it out but I just cannot seem to get my head around metering with the Safari Li-ons. The power is graded from 1 to 5 rather than being standard quarter power, half power, etc. and it's really thrown me. 1 is lowest power level, 5 is full power.

I use either a Sekonic L-308S or a Minolta Spotmeter F and If I was to, for example, meter for the ambient, underexpose by a couple of stops & then want to bring in flash to the level the ambient measured at originally then how would I work out what to set the safari at? On say a speed light I'd take my flash reading & say "I need to increase the light by 2 stops - six clicks on the transmitter up in 1/3 stops & all good" How do I work out how much to turn the dials to add in those 2 stops of extra light using a 1-5 dial method?

I am waiting on triggers arriving so have not had proper chance to play around with the kit yet so am only going from the instructions - I may well look back on this post once I've had chance to actually use them & have a good laugh but for now, the only tutorial I managed to find on metering with them was by a guy that said he guesstimates but has been using them for so long that he almost always guesses correctly (wonderful for him, no help at all however :)

The other thing that has me confused (obviously doesn't take much where these flashes are concerned) is that there is a variable power output - I can channel all power to the one socket and have a single 600W flash, use the second port to get a single 400W flash or redirect power to both sockets for one 400W and one 200W flash together - how does this influence the 1-5 power metering method? If I am at half total power on the dial (say at 2.5) at 600W then I am assuming it will give me a different reading that the same flash at half power at the 400W or 200W level.

I am not even going to try to read back what I have just written as I will make it even worse :lol: hopefully one of you lighting geniuses will be able to lend a hand, cheers in advance,

Mike :thumbs:
 
In no particular order...
Channel A is a maximum of 400 Ws, B is a maximum of 200 Ws and if you press the A+B butten then all power goes to A, which becomes a maximum of 600Ws. If you have, by example, both flash heads together and pointing in the same direction then it doesn't make any difference, when metering, whether the power is coming from A, B or both.

As for he power setting dial, think of 5 as full power, i.e. 1/1, and think of 1 as 5 stops lower, i.e. 1/32 - does that help you? It isn't quite as simple as that because socket B can be set to produce a very low level of power and, from memory, I think that the total adjustment range is something like 6.4 stops, not the expected 5 stops (based on our method of counting each power setting only once, many people exaggerate the power by counting the full power setting twice, which means that they claim 6 stop when it is 5). But it doesn't matter what the dial says, because what matters in photography is not the level of power that leaves the flash head, it's the level of power that reaches the subject, and this is dependent on both distance and on the modifier fitted to it. You don't take any account of the power setting when metering.

There are different methods of metering for different situations. Shooting outdoors with the Safari or similar, a good starting point is to point the meter from the subject position, straight at the camera, and take an incident reading of the ambient light only. Then do it again, this time with the flash firing. If the meter is now indicating a smaller aperture, then the flash is making a measurable contribution to the lighting. If you want to totally overpower the sun, you may need the meter to register about 2 stops more of light from the flash.

There are no rights or wrongs here, the whole thing is subjective. After taking your meter readings you will need to take test shots to see whether or not you like the effect you're getting. That's what you're going to end up doing, so why not just do that instead of using the meter?

If it's any help, my own approach is to use the camera meter to measure the ambient, simply by setting the shutter speed that I'm going to use (say 1/250th). Let's say that the reading is f/11, so I now put the camera on manual and set 1/250th at f/11, that's my starting point. I now introduce the flash, and then adjust the aperture to suit. This video, of an actual outdoor shoot, may help
 
Massive thanks for such a great reply mate, much appreciated.

Garry Edwards said:
...think of 5 as full power, i.e. 1/1, and think of 1 as 5 stops lower, i.e. 1/32 - does that help you?
Click to expand...

Thanks Gary, that has confirmed exactly what I thought (y)

Garry Edwards said:
...It isn't quite as simple as that because socket B can be set to produce a very low level of power and, from memory, I think that the total adjustment range is something like 6.4 stops, not the expected 5 stops (based on our method of counting each power setting only once, many people exaggerate the power by counting the full power setting twice, which means that they claim 6 stop when it is 5).
Click to expand...

And that reply nicely confirms my other question :)

Once again Gary, thank you for the advice, really appreciate it, will get out & get shooting with it as soon as my triggers arrive (y)
 
You really need to measure the light output at different settings and make a note of it. Not all flashes turn down in accurate fractions of a stop, even if they claim they do, and some heads can be both a long way out, and the scale may not be linear either.

Just set the flash up, and take meter readings at all power settings. It doesn't really matter how you do this, so long as the flash doesn't move and the meter is in exactly the same position each time.
 
the numbers do not relate well to stops, if they did

5.0 would be 1/1
4.0 would be 1/2
3.0 would be 1/4
2.0 would be 1/8
1.0 would be 1/16

and that is 4 stops and as Garry said it is probably just over a 6 stop range so do as Richard says and take notes. When I had one it worked a trear.

Mike
 
The Safari Li-on power settings do in fact relate fairly well to f/ in that there are 5 primary stops of adjustment and the control goes from 0 to 5, not from 1 to 5.
The theoretical complication arises because, if just one flash head is fitted, it can be fitted to either socket A or socket B, and if it's fitted to socket A and both A & B buttons are pressed, sending the full power to socket A, there will be 5 stops of possible adjustment from a starting point of 200Ws, 400Ws or 600Ws.

None of this matters. What actually matters is how much light reaches the subject and whether or not the amount is what you want it to be, so my view is that testing is of little help, and nor is metering (and at least not when shooting outdoors with digital). Don't overcomplicate it, just take a shot, see whether you're happy with the result or not, and adjust the light position, distance, modifier as required.
 
Garry Edwards said:
The Safari Li-on power settings do in fact relate fairly well to f/ in that there are 5 primary stops of adjustment and the control goes from 0 to 5, not from 1 to 5.
The theoretical complication arises because, if just one flash head is fitted, it can be fitted to either socket A or socket B, and if it's fitted to socket A and both A & B buttons are pressed, sending the full power to socket A, there will be 5 stops of possible adjustment from a starting point of 200Ws, 400Ws or 600Ws.

None of this matters. What actually matters is how much light reaches the subject and whether or not the amount is what you want it to be, so my view is that testing is of little help, and nor is metering (and at least not when shooting outdoors with digital). Don't overcomplicate it, just take a shot, see whether you're happy with the result or not, and adjust the light position, distance, modifier as required.
Click to expand...

I just dug out my notes for the Lencarta Safari-2 I tested last year for Digital SLR Photography magazine (Nov 15 edition). It had an actual power range of 4.9 stops. 1/2 power -1.0 stop, 1/4 power -1.1, 1/8 power -0.9, 1/16 power -0.9, 1/32 power -1.0. That's a very accurate and consistent performance, pretty much as good as it gets. It was awarded Best Buy.

To illustrate how this is not always the case, another product in the same review had a power setting running from 1.0 to 8.0, in 0.1 increments. In reality, the power range available tested at 2-stops max (yes, two!) and the digital readout was not linear either. I was testing a speedlite a couple of weeks ago and turning the power down from full to 1/2 resulted in a brightness reduction of precisely nothing!

That's why I think it's important to check these things (it's very easy) so you know that when you want a power change of say one stop, that's what you get and not 0.6 or 1.3! That kind of inaccuracy is not uncommon.
 
Yes, that's my experience too. And although there are some Chinese manufacturers who make claims that don't even begin to stand up to tests, the problem isn't limited to Chinese manufacturers.

The funniest (in retrospect) experience I had was with a brand new flash head that includes its own lithium battery - there are now several of these available, this was the first - and having heard about it and its very impressive spec, I flew to Shenzen, a very long distance, to look at it.
It was supposed to have 8 stops of adjustment, it had just under 4.
It was supposed to adjust in 1/10th stop increments, and the pretty LCD display displayed these incremental changes but, at best, it adjusted in 1/3rd stop increments.
Worst of all was the range of colour temperature, they claimed a difference throughout the range of 200K, the difference was about 1300K. I know this because of course I measured it with my colour temperature meter, and my interpreter later told me that the boss and their engineer were having a conversation about my testing, the boss wanted to know what the meter was and the engineer didn't know - which begs the question: If they don't know what a colour temperature meter is and don't use one themselves, where did they get their figures from?
HoppyUK said:
I just dug out my notes for the Lencarta Safari-2 I tested last year for Digital SLR Photography magazine (Nov 15 edition). It had an actual power range of 4.9 stops. 1/2 power -1.0 stop, 1/4 power -1.1, 1/8 power -0.9, 1/16 power -0.9, 1/32 power -1.0. That's a very accurate and consistent performance, pretty much as good as it gets. It was awarded Best Buy.
Click to expand...
And it's predecessor, the Safari Li-on, got best in test too. Unfortunately there are a lot of cheapie models out there that don't perform anywhere near as well as they should, and they get away with it because the public doesn't know any better.
 
Thanks for all of the advice guys, my triggers arrived today & after having a bit of a play around, I am happy to report that it is actually quite easy to estimate how much to add or reduce via the light meter & dial to get the exposures I want, I really did think I would have more difficulty with it.

I usually try to use my light meter as much as possible as I tend to shoot film & that can get kind of expensive if I am just bodging it :) Faffing around to check exposures on the digital first just takes too much time so after these tests, I am very happy with the Safari so far.

Cheers again guys, really appreciate everyone taking the time to comment, has been a huge help :thumbs:
 
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