USA? (Denver and south west)

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LongLensPhotography

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I am potentially going to a conference in Denver in the summer, so I could use it for a wee photographic holiday (1-2 weeks)
So I would need to get to Denver / Rocky mountains area for the start (or the end!). I am not aware of any direct flights down there, so that would have to be via New York? I wouldn't mind 2 days down there

My plan maximum is probably totally unrealistic, so feel please tear it down, blow some sense of realism and plenty of advise.

I am ideally getting a campervan, not sure how plausible and expensive that would be compared to motels (which I wouldn't enjoy at all). I may need to find some one like minded to share with :)

1. Wyoming / Yellowstone: the mountains and geysers. 2-4 days. Too little? The whole 2 weeks? I am not really sure about wild camping and trekking as I've never done it in a lot more sensible places than that. I am just slightly concerned that if I stick to the campsites and follow common sense I would not get a single photo I am after.

2. Nevada / California. The famous nature sites, etc. A few more days...

3. Arizona / Grand Canyon and back to Denver... or straight to New York

That's 3,000 miles and google thinks I can do it in just 2 days :cuckoo:

So is it any sensible at all, and what's the best way to make the most of it and make the travel manageable? The budget is LIMITED
 
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I spent 2 weeks doing San Fransisco along the Coast to LA to Las Vegas then back to San Fran via Death Valley and Yosemite and TBH it was a bit of a rush.

Personally I'd pick one "smaller" area and spend the whole 1 or 2 weeks doing it. I'd probably do something like San Fran - LA - California national parks over the 2 weeks. If you are only going to spend a week I'd choose some National Parks that are pretty close to each other.
 
+1 on less travelling and longer stays.
What are your interests?
Keep in mind you may need to book far ahead for overnight accomodation, including camping, in US national parks in summer and possibly pre book your campervan.
US national parks may not allow "wild" camping unless hiking in backcoutry etc.
Be very realistic about driving times in the USA.

We have flown from Denver to London (transiting at Washington, DC)
 
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redddraggon said:
I spent 2 weeks doing San Fransisco along the Coast to LA to Las Vegas then back to San Fran via Death Valley and Yosemite and TBH it was a bit of a rush.

Personally I'd pick one "smaller" area and spend the whole 1 or 2 weeks doing it. I'd probably do something like San Fran - LA - California national parks over the 2 weeks. If you are only going to spend a week I'd choose some National Parks that are pretty close to each other.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I've done this trip (and the reverse), and included Tahoe & Mammoth along the way and never felt rushed. I would agree that the longer you have, the better.

If it were me, and I was starting up in Denver, I'd be aiming to strike out for the Pacific Northwest (definitely taking in Yellowstone), and perhaps fly back out of Seattle if it's do-able for you.
 
Any more ideas please? Particularly how to make it manageable, AFFORDABLE and safe (from bears and gun loving excited individuals)?

I most likely need to consider finding a couple more fellow photographers or like minded individuals to share the driving and some bills and no idea where to start looking
 
#1 Pick a destination - eg national parks in Wyoming (in & out of Denver)

#2 How long for - for #1, 10 days approx (that will give you 3 nights in the North of Yellowstone National Park, 2 nights in the Firehole Basin area and 2 nights in the Grand Tetons. 2 days easy driving to Yellowstone and one very long day back from the Grand Tetons to Denver.

#3 Contact a RV rental place and check out the prices.
Here is one
https://www.cruiseamerica.com/

We haven't driven a RV in North America and I wouldn't, mainly because you will be driving on the on the other side of the road and driving big vehicle..

#3 Try to book campground accomodation in the parks (you may find it very difficult in the summer driving season) .

#4 If that works out then check out camp grounds on the way to/from the parks (we overnighted at Sherridan, WY heading to Yellowstone and Casper WY heading back from The Grand Tetons.

The above is based on a stopover in Colarado and Wyoming as part of our 2006 vacation (I am the only driver in our family).

You may find this post of interst.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...P_GTNP-Yellowstone_National_Park_Wyoming.html

----------------------

Re the bears;
We have had 5 vactions in the US, including some in bear country and have never seen a bear, although were in a bear jam in Yellostone on the first day.
I would only camp in official camping areas as I would not want the door of my RV ripped off by a bear who smelt food.

Re gun loving individuals;
just be a gracious vistor, always.
 
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Some thoughts on minimising costs, especially if you are travelling alone.

Pick up a small rental car (this will give you a lot of freedom - for the dawn shoots etc)
Avoid one way rental charges as far as possible and paying extra for sat-nav.

Stay in hostels - Can very cheap acomodation, however some states are very sparsly populated and may not have any.
Just look at motels as somewehere to sleep only.... Some of them can be very cheap (in every sense of the word). Do not count on getting a decent breakfast a a lot of motels
Avoid popular destinations at peak times (like Las Vegas on a friday saturday night).
B&B's tend to be romantic destinations in the US and are priced accordingly.

Junk food is relatively cheap and plentiful, however we try to stay away from it. Good food will cost however servings tend to be very large and it can be very good.

If visting a few national parks consider getting a national parks pass.
 
RichardTaylor said:
Some thoughts on minimising costs, especially if you are travelling alone.

Pick up a small rental car (this will give you a lot of freedom - for the dawn shoots etc)
Avoid one way rental charges as far as possible and paying extra for sat-nav.

Stay in hostels - Can very cheap acomodation, however some states are very sparsly populated and may not have any.
Just look at motels as somewehere to sleep only.... Some of them can be very cheap (in every sense of the word). Do not count on getting a decent breakfast a a lot of motels
Avoid popular destinations at peak times (like Las Vegas on a friday saturday night).
B&B's tend to be romantic destinations in the US and are priced accordingly.

Junk food is relatively cheap and plentiful, however we try to stay away from it. Good food will cost however servings tend to be very large and it can be very good.

If visting a few national parks consider getting a national parks pass.
Click to expand...

Thanks thats very helpful :thumbs:

What's the park pass and what difference does it make?

I was thinking about small campervan (as opposed to large RV) so I could take all the food and water from supermarkets and sleep where I want. Does it not work like that in the US?

Where would you look for good healthy food when out on the road out of the big cities? I really don't get on with hamburgers and most junk food in general.

When it comes to cars, what would be considered a sensible choice down there?In EU, the min car would be something like a diesel Peugeot 308 1.6 HDI, just because they are taller, economic, diesel and pull well enough to the steeper hills. Have they got any sensible diesel 4x4s to take some rougher side roads if needed? Or is it cheap enough to drive a 4.0L V8?
 
A parks pass cost $US80
Entry fees vary and can be checked on the NPS web site .
For example Yellowstone/Grand Tetons pass is $US25 for a 7 day pass per non commercial vehicle.
Proably wouldn't pay for shorter tours.

Quote
"I was thinking about small campervan (as opposed to large RV) so I could take all the food and water from supermarkets and sleep where I want. Does it not work like that in the US?"
End quote.

We havn't seen very much of that at all.
Personall I wouldn't do it, mainly because of security concerns, .
At the bare minimum i would stay in a designated camping area.
In Yellowstone even when backpacking when hiking you need a permit to stay in designated backcountry camping areas. It is not a free for all.
See here.
http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/backcountryhiking.htm

Re the food;
Our experience from having 3 weeks in New England as part of our last big vacation that it was a bit like England with lots of small towns/villages around once you get off the freeways. Lots of reasonable eating choices.
However in some states towns can be very far apart. We like diners (like you see in the movies) and if you can find one they can be good, even for breakfast, and a real experience. Also some truck stops (not the major fast food chains) can be ok. Whatever you do, do not eat at Taco Bells - we did, once.

Re fuel (gas) prices,
Compared to some parts of the world (especially the UK where we found prices to be eye watering even years ago) it is cheap.
A check in Wyoming cities shows you would be paying less than $US1/litre today.

Re vehicles:
I havn't driven in Europe/UK for quite a few years so I am not real familiar with vehicles there now.
Keep in mind in the US you are a world away from the old world of Europe.
Just have a look at any of the US car rental agencies and see what they have keeping in mind it will most likely be a fully automatic vehicle.
We have been relatively happy with smaller sedans about the 1.5-2L range although we have never travelled there in summer heat..
The main thing is that you do need to keep up with the other vehicles, keeping in mind as a tourist you will most likely be the only person not sitting above the speed limit, including trucks, except in construction zones (roadworks) which can be heavily policed.
Keep in mind in Colorado, that you may be driving over passes at altitudes the Europeans may run cable cars & cogwheel trains to 11000 feet +.

As far as side roads go check with the rental agencies to see what is available and the fine print on driving on unpaved roads, which from memory may invalidate your rental agreement and leave you liable for any damages.
Be sure to budget for vehicle insurance (as it may not be includeded in your rental agreement (it varies by state) and personal accident and medical insurance.
 
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BA fly directly from Heathrow to Denver and we've never had a bad flight yet. Don't forget about Estes park which I think is free to drive through. Also places such as Garden of the Gods, Royal Gorge and hiking up Pikes peak are all to be recommended as well.

Di
 
Not sure on the national parks bit but I have driven about 20000 miles in the US and its easy. A little concentration required early on when making turns at crossroads where there are no other cars to stop you going up the wrong side but its just lots of long roads that are rarely busy unless a truck falls over. If you have a tom tom device pay the £35 and get the US map on it well worth the money as to hire one in the us is a lot more.

If your doing distance then splash a bit more on the car, we went to New Orleans (not a tourist location) once with a plan to head to Texas and back about 1800 miles and got the basic car it it was bottom of the range poor ride as the roads are not great in the south, no cruise control or air con it spoilt the trip if I am honest.

If you head to a tourist location the hire cars are a lot better even the basic ones have the basic toys and you can get away with booking the basic and often get a free upgrade as they have none left.

One way hire charges WOW they are a lot so if you can do a circuit so you start and leave from the same location you costs will drop, some routes are free like Vegas to LA as it is a common pick up and drop off so the cars make their way back. The same with an RV one way costs are a lot. We always stay in hotels, costs are a bit more we usually end up spending about £50 per night cities are higher but again they are everywhere we just avoid ones with a number in the name (there are not many four seasons hotels in the places we have been). We always think about the RV option save on hotels and stuff but the costs generally work out very similar as paying for hotels, the extra fuel that the huge thing will use camp site costs your looking at about $50 per night for camping even parking lots charge a lot more for an RV and there is the thing that I would hate to drive such a big thing round a city with height restrictions and things just not as flexable.

Fuel is peanuts, our longest single trip was 3960 miles and the fuel bill was £225 the most expensive full tank was £35 in a huge V6 dodge charger, The hire companies will always try to sell your their extra insurance, even if you already have it prepaid they will try to sell you somthing else just say no and yes prepay works out cheaper that the price at the desk.

I love traveling about the US, watch out for the it takes 2 days to travel XXXX miles things in the US are vast and so wide open its unbeleiveable I would double that at least as you will want to stop and eat fill the fuel tank take photos stop and do things you see on the route etc never mind the occasional truck that has fallen over which will double your trip time as the number of roads are not like the UK you cant turn off and there will be 3 or 4 other routes you can take there will be only 1 and everyone has to take it on surface streets. Its not liek the UK where there is an exit every few miles you can go 20 miles without an exit.

This truck fell over and ended up in the lake at the side of the road. 5 hours added to that run that day a 3 hour drive was 8 hours.
523883_10151090763468387_17623966_n.jpg


And another one another 2-3 hour delay.
560442_10151088873858387_243240666_n.jpg
 
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We have travelled extensively in the USA, by motorbike, so here's a few things that we have found:
1. We usually stay in motels and inexpensive hotels on a budget of 70-100 dollars for the two of us, per night and have had some excellent rooms. We have even found brilliant places at only 60 dollars for two...but that was good luck!
2. Forget breakfast...even when "included" its usually just coffee and a muffin/waffle. Better to find a local diner. Ask the receptionists; they are a mine of good info.
3. We rarely plan more than one night ahead and Trip Advisor is very useful, so definately find places with internet so you can plan the next night easily. Starbucks is brilliant for this!
4. Tom-Tom (or similar) with US roads is a godsend, as is a piece of software called Streets and Trips, so a laptop/netbook is VERY useful!
5. Remember that most areas outside cities/towns have little or no phone reception. Most national parks have none at all as they don't allow phone masts.
6. If you are going into a lot of national parks, a yearly pass is worthwhile and costs about 80 dollars. If it was me flying into Denver, I would concentrate on Colorado and Wyoming for your trip. Lots to see and do, if you like landscapes. Trip Advisor forums have lots of useful tips.
7. INSURANCE...both vehicle and personal are vital, especially on rental vehicles. A 4x4 would be very useful if you want to go off-piste....roads are pretty awful in the USA!
8. Locals are generally really friendly and helpful.
9. At service stations, you generally pay in advance, unless paying at the pump. You tell them how much fuel you think you want (eg 40 dollars), they then "unlock" the pump, you fuel up to whatever amount you asked for and go and collect any change if your tank didn't take it all. NB: fuelling at the pump impossible with a UK credit card as it always asks for your zip-code.....and we don't have them!
10. THEY DON'T USE PIN NUMBERS. You sign in the old-fashioned way.

I'd give Yellowstone/Grand Tetons at least 5 days.

Have a great time!

xx
 
Thanks guys

photostar_1 said:
5. Remember that most areas outside cities/towns have little or no phone reception. Most national parks have none at all as they don't allow phone masts.
xx
Click to expand...

What's the best way to go about having connectivity and internet up there? I do expect to spend 80% time in the parks

Have got old MBP (might buy retina 2 before then), ipad wifi, and also will take some sort of unlocked smartphone (with copilot live for satnav)
 
copilot live is probably not going to be any use to you due to the lack of mobile signal and to be honest with the data charges of about £8 per mb in the states it will kill you, I have come back to mobile phoe bills of £300+ from a normal bill of £40 partially due to driving round LA trying to find a good spot to take a photo of the hollywood sign and other stuff in LA and it went dark befor eI found it, I had to go back a few years later to find it and I discovered I wouldn't see it due to the smog at the time. I passed the poitnt loads of times.
 
Little John said:
copilot live is probably not going to be any use to you due to the lack of mobile signal and to be honest with the data charges of about £8 per mb in the states it will kill you, I have come back to mobile phoe bills of £300+ from a normal bill of £40 partially due to driving round LA trying to find a good spot to take a photo of the hollywood sign and other stuff in LA and it went dark befor eI found it, I had to go back a few years later to find it and I discovered I wouldn't see it due to the smog at the time. I passed the poitnt loads of times.
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copilot has everything on board, no data needed. I've used on my desire for last 2 months without a SIM card! Wouldn't go back to the dedicated LostNavs

Are there not any mobile SIM cards that have data inclusive? I don't think I can manage to find many things without a reasonable connection.
 
Re connectivity:
In the national parks you will be connecting with nature, forget the outside world. We have stayed in some of the US national parks (mainly cabins and cheaper hotel/motel syle of accomodation). From memory there is no TV at all and no phones, except down in the lobby/public areas. We havn't stayed in upmarket hotels so there may be more there. We never take a computer and have only used a mobile a few times on one 6 week vacation (Canadian Rockies/Quebec/New England and back home to Australia via Paris (France) - it can sometimes be cheaper to fly around the world to get back home)

You may find commercial lodges/hostels etc near the entrances to some national parks and these will have more facilities (I am thinking of Yosemite/Seqioa and Bryce). They can be ok.
Some national parks are relatively close to bigger cities (like Rocky Mountain National Park park in Colorado) so you won't spend a lot of time driving.
If you want to maximise your time in the parks consider flying to a city/town close to the park(s). For example Jackson Hole would be a close kicking off point for Grand Tetons/Yellowstone.
 
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RichardTaylor said:
Re connectivity:
In the national parks you will be connecting with nature, forget the outside world. We We have stayed in some of the US national parks (mainly cabins and cheaper hotel/motel syle of accomodation). From memory there is no TV at all and no phones, except down in the lobby/public areas. We havn't stayed in upmarket hotels so there may be more there. We never take a computer and have only used a mobile a few times on one 6 week vacation (Canadian Rockies/Quebec/New England and back home to Australia via Paris (France) - it can sometimes be cheaper to fly around the world to get back home)

You may find commercial lodges/hostels etc near the entrances to some national parks and these will have more facilities (I am thinking of Yosemite/Seqioa and Bryce). They can be ok.
Some national parks are relatively close to bigger cities (like Rocky Mountain National Park park in Colorado) so you won't spend a lot of time driving.
If you want to maximise your time in the parks consider flying to a city/town close to the park(s). For example Jackson Hole would be a close kicking off point for Grand Tetons/Yellowstone.
Click to expand...

I guess what I need is to have connectivity to book the next place, find the nearby landmarks, or get help is **** happens... I doubt I'll do enough planning beforehand, it would be my first time ever
 
Nowdays we always plan our vacations down to a fair amount of detail, with just leaving a bit of "wriggle room" at some locations.

Re accomodation bookings.
We have done it both ways.
#1 First long (8 week)s overseas vacation with the family we only booked Disnyland (package), a hotel in the Swiss alps, Edinborough and a bus tour from London to Athens. The rest we booked day by day. It does give you a lot of flexibility however finding somewhere to sleep can be a problem especially on weekends and at very popular locations. If you are staying in chain motels (outside the parks) the staff on the front desks may be able to help with booking on going accomodation.

#2 All our overseas vacations since then have been 90% pre-booked on line from home. Although you loose a bit of flexibilty you have a lot more peace of mind knowing you have somewhere to sleep at night. Sometimes you do make an ocassional mistake but you just live with that. You may be able to pick up some deals.
As I mentioned above you will be visitintg the US in their busy (travelling/summer vaction) time of the year.

We found the US, although being a big country, to be very crowded and almost impossible to be totally isolated. Even on day walks in the national parks there were always other people on the trails, sometimes lots of them like in Yosemite. If you are going off the beaten track let somebody know, like a ranger, where you will be going and when you will be back.

Do not count on connectivity.............
 
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If visiting the US for a couple of weeks or more, I usually buy a T-Mobile PrePay SIM card whilst out there. If I remember right it costs something like $40 for a month of unlimited US calls & data, but only the first 100MB is at 3G speed, after that it drops down to snail pace, but more than good enough to do the odd lookup. You can also purchase a $10 bolt on that gives you unlimited calls back to Europe landlines. T-Mobile were the only company to offer this when I was out there last October - someone else might also be offering it now though.

In the National Parks you'll struggle to get a signal on your phone (in Yosemite at least) as they like to keep them natural and not dotted with phone masts/antennae. Most hotels/motels will have free wi-fi, as do lots of restaurants/bars, so you won't struggle for connectivity even out in the sticks.

Sounds like a perfect journey! I love the US West Coast & Mid-West - some absolutely beautiful places to photograph there. At home i have 4 large framed pictures (about 50" wide) on my walls from my trips put to the West. Next trip I'm going to do Utah, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Monument Valley, Antelope Canyon (slot canyons - definitely on my bucket list). Have got a route planned starting and finishing in Vegas - 2 weeks to do about 1,800 miles and even then it might be a rush.

My 2p worth of advice is to make sure you spend more time photographing than driving. The roads are generally fine (unless you venture off the beaten track), but make sure you research where you want to go beforehand rather than trying to find the beauty spots whilst out there. Petrol is about 1/4 the price it is here, so even a 'gas guzzler' won't dent the wallet too much! Last time I was there I hired a Mustang convertible and a 1,000 mile trip cost something like £100 in fuel - my 'gas guzzler' (SL55 AMG Merc) here in the UK would cost about £300 to do the same mileage!

I was really lucky to come across a mother bear and 3 cubs when there last (posted some pics on here), but it's the first time I've seen bears in 4 trips. They are generally pretty shy of humans, unless you leave a load of food for them to home in on, but you will find that there are reminders not to do this all over the National Parks.
 
You need a very minimum of 3 days in Yellowstone, and as Richard says get a park pass they are well worth it.

Just an idea from when I was last there ( you need to check mileage as we had 3weeks ) but from Denver you should be able to make a nice looping trip via Mount Rushmore, Little Bighorn battlefield, devils tower, deadwood, bearthooth highway, Yellowstone, and then back on a south easterly course.

To be honest there is so much to see in Wyoming, South Dakota region one trip will never be enough
 
As for pre-planning we take the opposite approach to Richard, a fixed and booked hotel starting and finish point then just go with the flow.

I know many a folk who when doing the PCH missed lots out as they had to get to a pre booked hotel.
 
I am having so final thoughts about this

Obviously Yellowstone = WILDLIFE and I would be stupid not to even have a go at it.
But this is one area I don't have experience in, nor long lens. (200mm on 5DIII is my max)
Could I hire something suitably long but manageable whilst in Yellowstone? I can't see myself taking it from UK and paying for a lot longer than needed. Has anyone done it?

It could be just yellowstone (5-7d), or I could still try to complete the crazy SW loop in the last extra few days.
 
Just saw post #22.

You can rent lenses in the USA However as an overseas visitor you may need to pick it up at a Parcel Delivery depot.
Here is a site (I have not used them) that you may find helpful.

www.lensrentals.com/

Re the SW loop - that is a destination in itself (we have done part of it) and if you want more than a quick look with a lot of driving it will be more than just a few days.
Why not consider a visit to Rocky Mountains National Park (just out of Denver) or just Mesa Verde (NP) or the San Juans (both in Colorado). We have visted both locations.
 
Only just seen #22 and #23.

I have used www.lensrentals.com and they provided a fantastic service. I'd definitely recommend them and will be using them again.

They'll ship to a Fedex location where you can pick up the equipment (and drop it off when you're done). It's much easier and cheaper that renting a lens over here and it doesn't use up your hand luggage allowance! My rental came with a handy slip-lock style f-stop pouch so I wouldn't have needed to worry about making room in my regular bag either.
 
I finally got back.

The trip was totally different to what I initially planned, but it was still amazing if a little too short and very rushed.

I did Rocky mountains --> Aspen --> Hanging lakes (all in CO) --> Arches --> Vegas --> Hoover Dam and the lake drive --> Zion --> Arches --> Colorado National monument. National parks are simply picture perfect on every corner.

All was really spectacular and I saw wildlife on every corner. It is easier to say I have NOT seen only bears, cats and snakes (but I bought one toy as a souvenir :lol:)

The only and very dangerous animal was the truck drivers. Outright deadly and very common. Please watch out for them and be very careful. The stuff is far heavier and a lot faster than in UK (90mph is not uncommon) and needs to be treated like a runaway train or worse.

I am expecting to make more trips to Yellowstone and West coast a couple years later.


RichardTaylor said:
Just saw post #22.

You can rent lenses in the USA However as an overseas visitor you may need to pick it up at a Parcel Delivery depot.
Here is a site (I have not used them) that you may find helpful.

www.lensrentals.com/

Re the SW loop - that is a destination in itself (we have done part of it) and if you want more than a quick look with a lot of driving it will be more than just a few days.
Why not consider a visit to Rocky Mountains National Park (just out of Denver) or just Mesa Verde (NP) or the San Juans (both in Colorado). We have visted both locations.
Click to expand...

I saw this a bit too late. 400mm would have been invaluable :(
 
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daugirdas said:
The only and very dangerous animal was the truck drivers. Outright deadly and very common. Please watch out for them and be very careful. The stuff is far heavier and a lot faster than in UK (90mph is not uncommon) and needs to be treated like a runaway train or worse.
Click to expand...


No deer? You have to be careful of them as they have a tendency to run out in front of you! I was incredibly close to hitting one when driving out from Bryce Canyon a few years ago. It was night too, so wouldn't have been good :lol:

Where are the photos?
 
Matt. said:
No deer? You have to be careful of them as they have a tendency to run out in front of you! I was incredibly close to hitting one when driving out from Bryce Canyon a few years ago. It was night too, so wouldn't have been good :lol:

Where are the photos?
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw lots of deer on and near the road, but never had any problems driving sensibly.

Photos - slowly appearing on my website, and maybe a couple blog posts. I have around 200GB data, so no easy task
 
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