I use a Canon IP4500 and constantly get prints that appear to be about two stops under exposed. I have to go into 'set' on every picture and increase the the intensity to beteen 5 & 10 and also set to 'Darkest' , if that makes sense to you. I read about calibration, but the images on my monitor are the same as on my camera, i.e correct, so does anyone know of a way I can re-set the printer so I don't have to mess about with trial and error on every print? Any help would be appreciated.
Underexposed prints on Canon
- Thread starter madmardle
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It sounds like a mismatch between ink and paper. You have not supplied any info to be able to answer this.
If you are using Canon inks and paper with the default settings I would assume a good result.
I have never used Canon printers but a good result would be expected from the above.
This is why I am guessing wrong paper or ink. Could you supply the following info...
1 Brand of Ink
2 Brand of Paper
3 Software you are using to print
4 Settings for printer in software
If someone comes along with the answer then you can ignore this.
If you are using Canon inks and paper with the default settings I would assume a good result.
I have never used Canon printers but a good result would be expected from the above.
This is why I am guessing wrong paper or ink. Could you supply the following info...
1 Brand of Ink
2 Brand of Paper
3 Software you are using to print
4 Settings for printer in software
If someone comes along with the answer then you can ignore this.
Flightphoto
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Check that your monitor is calibrated aswell, not sure if there's a setting in your drivers for colour profiles but basically set it so that it prints using the colour file that your monitor uses 
Check that your monitor is calibrated aswell, not sure if there's a setting in your drivers for colour profiles but basically set it so that it prints using the colour file that your monitor uses
Correct me if I'm wrong but for the life of me I can't see how a printer and a monitor can use the same profile. They are two completely different things.
Flightphoto
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Totally fine on the mac, basically when I first bought a large format printer I had the same issue until I had the iMac calibrated of which I then used the same ICC file for on the printer, now the thing here is I'm using large format printers so I'm forever changing between files dependent on paper etc but as a rule of thumb, if I'm to print something and want it to perfectly match the screen - I'll use the ICC file for that job as it's basically what I'm seeing on the screen. When you're sending a printing company a large photo for a large canvas etc they will usually ask for you to send an ICC file so they can do like for like in case of a customer kicking off that the photo looks washed out etc
I might be totally wrong aswell but this is how I've been doing it for years so I may be a complete plonker
I might be totally wrong aswell but this is how I've been doing it for years so I may be a complete plonker
Flightphoto
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Oh, and as a tip for Ken, turn the printer's in-built colour features off as they aren't always up to scratch for comparative results etc
Spuriousfish
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What program are you using to print the image?
You can't really tell if your image looks the same between the camera and screen and even if it did that doesn't mean it will print the same.
Setting the display to use a printer profile is so wrong. They are two totally different devices and will most likelyrequire different values of RGB to produce a similar colour
The main purpose of a colour managed workflow is to address the issue that different devices need different numbers for RGB to get the same colour or as near as possible.
1. You need to calibrate and profile your display - this ensures you see acurately rendered images. And this may look well different from your camera LCD because that isn't calibrated. Note: it will not on its own guarantee a print that matches your screen.
2. You need to use a colour managed program e.g Photoshop, to do the displaying and printing.
3. You need a printer profile that matches your printer/paper/inks.
4. You let Photoshop (in this case) manage the colours during printing.
5. You disable the colour management option in the printer driver.
6. You should really view the prints in the same colour temperature light as you set your screen.
Colin
You can't really tell if your image looks the same between the camera and screen and even if it did that doesn't mean it will print the same.
Setting the display to use a printer profile is so wrong. They are two totally different devices and will most likelyrequire different values of RGB to produce a similar colour
The main purpose of a colour managed workflow is to address the issue that different devices need different numbers for RGB to get the same colour or as near as possible.
1. You need to calibrate and profile your display - this ensures you see acurately rendered images. And this may look well different from your camera LCD because that isn't calibrated. Note: it will not on its own guarantee a print that matches your screen.
2. You need to use a colour managed program e.g Photoshop, to do the displaying and printing.
3. You need a printer profile that matches your printer/paper/inks.
4. You let Photoshop (in this case) manage the colours during printing.
5. You disable the colour management option in the printer driver.
6. You should really view the prints in the same colour temperature light as you set your screen.
Colin
Okay everybody, some really good answers there although I am not sure I understand some of it, but thank you all for replying.
I am using Agfa paper at the moment, but I had the same problem with Jessops paper, and I use ink from Cartridge World. I'm not sure what you mean by printer drivers and profiles as although I have been interested in photography for many years, I am new to the digital / computer side of it. I do have Photoshop Elements, but when printing I assume the software I use is the one installed in my computer ie. Windows XP. When I have a picture on the screen I just click on the print icon at the bottom and it takes me to the printer screen which is set up to the Canon ip4500.
I will study the answers and see if I can achieve some of your suggestions.
Thanks very much again.
Ken
I am using Agfa paper at the moment, but I had the same problem with Jessops paper, and I use ink from Cartridge World. I'm not sure what you mean by printer drivers and profiles as although I have been interested in photography for many years, I am new to the digital / computer side of it. I do have Photoshop Elements, but when printing I assume the software I use is the one installed in my computer ie. Windows XP. When I have a picture on the screen I just click on the print icon at the bottom and it takes me to the printer screen which is set up to the Canon ip4500.
I will study the answers and see if I can achieve some of your suggestions.
Thanks very much again.
Ken
As Haggis has said, get yourself some Canon paper and ink, before you do anything else and print some images. You need to let us know what imaging program you are using to print, before any one can give you any more specific and better advice.
Spuriousfish
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Ken....
If you want a little background on Elements and your printer you can take a look at my web site, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin_w/colour problems.htm
I'll still provide some basics here though.
The underlying problem in the digital world is that different devices; camera, scanner, display, printer, etc may all have a different range of colours that they can capture or reproduce. At the same time they all have the same range of numbers that define colours.
As a simple example think of a camera that produces a wide range of colours but only has 10 numbers to record them. Now think about a printer that has a narrower range of colours but still has 10 numbers to reproduce them.
The colour represented by number 5 in your camera will be a different colour represented by the number 5 in your printer. Alternately to get the same colour in each may mean using 5 in the camera and 4 in the printer. Colour management has to perform a translation from the source device(camera) to the destination device (printer) to try and keep the colours looking the same.
(As a real world example; an image from my camera produces a specific colour red using the RGB numbers 122,58,46. To get the same colour on my display I need the numbers 176,38,63)
The additional complication is what to do with the colours in the source that just can't be reproduced in the destination device. This is handled by something called rendering intent.
A couple of things are needed to make the above work. You need a program that can perform colour managment translations e.g. Photoshop Elements. You need profiles (ICC Profiles) for each of your devices or colour spaces. The profiles basically contain definitions of what numbers mean what colour. So if you have a source profile e.g for your camera data and a destination profile e.g your display, Photoshop will perform the translation to produce an accurately rendered image.
Profiles may well be different across displays of the same type and will be different for various printers and various paper types, so its important to specify the correct one.
All of the above and how to setup your printer and Elements is on my web site. I no longer have access to update it so it's a little out of date but the basics are the same.
Colin
If you want a little background on Elements and your printer you can take a look at my web site, http://homepage.ntlworld.com/colin_w/colour problems.htm
I'll still provide some basics here though.
The underlying problem in the digital world is that different devices; camera, scanner, display, printer, etc may all have a different range of colours that they can capture or reproduce. At the same time they all have the same range of numbers that define colours.
As a simple example think of a camera that produces a wide range of colours but only has 10 numbers to record them. Now think about a printer that has a narrower range of colours but still has 10 numbers to reproduce them.
The colour represented by number 5 in your camera will be a different colour represented by the number 5 in your printer. Alternately to get the same colour in each may mean using 5 in the camera and 4 in the printer. Colour management has to perform a translation from the source device(camera) to the destination device (printer) to try and keep the colours looking the same.
(As a real world example; an image from my camera produces a specific colour red using the RGB numbers 122,58,46. To get the same colour on my display I need the numbers 176,38,63)
The additional complication is what to do with the colours in the source that just can't be reproduced in the destination device. This is handled by something called rendering intent.
A couple of things are needed to make the above work. You need a program that can perform colour managment translations e.g. Photoshop Elements. You need profiles (ICC Profiles) for each of your devices or colour spaces. The profiles basically contain definitions of what numbers mean what colour. So if you have a source profile e.g for your camera data and a destination profile e.g your display, Photoshop will perform the translation to produce an accurately rendered image.
Profiles may well be different across displays of the same type and will be different for various printers and various paper types, so its important to specify the correct one.
All of the above and how to setup your printer and Elements is on my web site. I no longer have access to update it so it's a little out of date but the basics are the same.
Colin
I would think this is sounding all a bit complicated for the OP.
I know that my Epson 3800 will give fairly good results if I use Epsons paper and ink using standard default settings.
Because I don't use Epson paper or ink I have to do a little tweaking via profiles.
As mentioned before if the OP goes back to basics and use Canon paper and ink with the default settings he should be good to go.
Once you have a good working formula then you can experiment with paper, ink and profiles.
I know that my Epson 3800 will give fairly good results if I use Epsons paper and ink using standard default settings.
Because I don't use Epson paper or ink I have to do a little tweaking via profiles.
As mentioned before if the OP goes back to basics and use Canon paper and ink with the default settings he should be good to go.
Once you have a good working formula then you can experiment with paper, ink and profiles.
Spuriousfish
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Maybe, maybe not.
I've always found that if folks understand the basics and then appreciate which boxes to check and options to set they'll get good consistent results.
Using manufacturers papers is a good start but its only one ingredient in the whole process.
Colin
I've always found that if folks understand the basics and then appreciate which boxes to check and options to set they'll get good consistent results.
Using manufacturers papers is a good start but its only one ingredient in the whole process.
Colin
Thanks very much for all the replies, it is getting a bit complicated to be honest, however I will get some Canon ink and paper when I have exhausted my present stock. It isn't the colours I have a problem with though, just a little underexposure. I can correct it by either overexposing in Photoshop, printing, and then going back in and correcting the exposure so that it looks right on the screen, or, as I said manipulating in the printer settings, I just wondered if there was a simple way of doing it. The only reason for the cheaper ink and paper is purely economical, the hobby was expensive enough when I was working, it's even harder on a pension. I do accept however that I may have to accept less than perfect results.
Thank you all once again.
Thank you all once again.
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Ken
Most monitors are usually too bright straight out of the box for most environments. The screen brightness needs to resemble the viewing area brightness. Even with a proper calibration device, you have assign a brightness value, which is usually obtained by a certain amount of trial and error.
You could simply turn down the screen brightness, or do what you are doing and that is adding a certain level of brightness prior to printing. If it works, don't fix it.
Just as an example my iMac uncalibrated hits well over 300 cd/m2. To match screen to print it has to be tamed to around 125 cd/m2 . That's a big jump, around a 50% drop using the brightness controls in the software.
John C
Most monitors are usually too bright straight out of the box for most environments. The screen brightness needs to resemble the viewing area brightness. Even with a proper calibration device, you have assign a brightness value, which is usually obtained by a certain amount of trial and error.
You could simply turn down the screen brightness, or do what you are doing and that is adding a certain level of brightness prior to printing. If it works, don't fix it.
Just as an example my iMac uncalibrated hits well over 300 cd/m2. To match screen to print it has to be tamed to around 125 cd/m2 . That's a big jump, around a 50% drop using the brightness controls in the software.
John C
Thanks John,
My screen shows the images as correctly exposed, and as the same as the camera, so it isn't as if the screen is too bright but rather the prints come directly from the printer under exposed. I can correct it but I just wondered if there was a simple setting I could do to adjust them rather than have to fiddle with every print.
Again, thanks to everone who replied.
My screen shows the images as correctly exposed, and as the same as the camera, so it isn't as if the screen is too bright but rather the prints come directly from the printer under exposed. I can correct it but I just wondered if there was a simple setting I could do to adjust them rather than have to fiddle with every print.
Again, thanks to everone who replied.
Chappers
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Ken
Couple of things you can try.
I'm not a Canon printer user, but you may have in the advanced section of the printer controls the ability to make a density adjustment. You could use this to correct for the dark prints.
Just checked the manual and there is a correction facility check page 20 of the manual
Alternatively if your imaging software supports actions. You could simply record an action that adds the correct amount of brightness to the prints, assign a keyboard letter to this and simply apply this when you print.
John C
Couple of things you can try.
I'm not a Canon printer user, but you may have in the advanced section of the printer controls the ability to make a density adjustment. You could use this to correct for the dark prints.
Just checked the manual and there is a correction facility check page 20 of the manual
Alternatively if your imaging software supports actions. You could simply record an action that adds the correct amount of brightness to the prints, assign a keyboard letter to this and simply apply this when you print.
John C
Spuriousfish
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I think you should take some time to learn about colour management as I suggested. If you do I can virtually guarantee that your prints will be a very close match to the screen.
Your camera will have a number of settings for the brightness of the LCD display. Which one is correct?
Your monitor will have a wide range of brightness to which it can be set.
How can you tell its set correctly?
Let me ask another basic question. When you open your images in Photoshop, what adjustments, if any, have you made?
Colin
Your camera will have a number of settings for the brightness of the LCD display. Which one is correct?
Your monitor will have a wide range of brightness to which it can be set.
How can you tell its set correctly?
Let me ask another basic question. When you open your images in Photoshop, what adjustments, if any, have you made?
Colin
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How do you judge that the screen is correctly exposed? It looks right or the histograms shows it's right?
If you monitor is over about 50% brightness I would really check this 1st, this alone made a huge difference to my print
Spuriousfish
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Let's just add another reference point or two.
You don't print what you see on the screen. You print from the data held in the image file, in the computers memory.
If you turned off the screen you could still print and if you turned the brightness way up or way down it would still print the same.
Having an incorrectly setup screen can lead to two things. You either make adjustments to the image because it looks wrong when its not; or you leave it because it looks right when it really isn't e.g your image is underexposed but your screen is over bright.
Colin
You don't print what you see on the screen. You print from the data held in the image file, in the computers memory.
If you turned off the screen you could still print and if you turned the brightness way up or way down it would still print the same.
Having an incorrectly setup screen can lead to two things. You either make adjustments to the image because it looks wrong when its not; or you leave it because it looks right when it really isn't e.g your image is underexposed but your screen is over bright.
Colin