Umbrellas....What is there purpose?

They keep you dry when you go on one of CGeezer's shoots. ;)

They're designed to diffuse and spread the light.
 
Think of it like this:

The sun is huge, but because it's so far away it's relatively very small to us which is why midday sun produces such hard and harsh shadows. This is like your bare flash.

If it's an overcast day the light from the sun is diffused massively and spread over a huge area producing very soft shadows. This is like your umbrella, softbox, etc.

Therefore an umbrella is used to increase the size and diffusion of your light source to make shadows much softer.
 
The23rdman said:
Think of it like this:

The sun is huge, but because it's so far away it's relatively very small to us which is why midday sun produces such hard and harsh shadows. This is like your bare flash.

If it's an overcast day the light from the sun is diffused massively and spread over a huge area producing very soft shadows. This is like your umbrella, softbox, etc.

Therefore an umbrella is used to increase the size and diffusion of your light source to make shadows much softer.
Click to expand...

Great Simple answer, cheers mate......so would i be right to presum it be pointless to have one umbrella and a "flash"

also will it help prevent "subjects" becoming washed out?
 
With a reflective umbrella the buld of the flash is actually pointed away from the subject and because the umbrella is a larger reflective surface it is easier to light a person. (Reasons above)

A shoot through umbrella acts a bit like a softbox, ie the light is pointed with the umbrella at your subject and softens it more. Though less controlable than a softbox.

Umbrellas can also be multi-purpose, reflective (with a cover on) or remove the cover for a shoot through..

Silver, white and gold will vary the colour temp of the lighting...

erm... Anything I should have said I might have forgotten to remember....
 
Silver and white should not vary the colour temp of the lighting if you buy quality ones that are made of colour neutral material.
 
assuming the same distance to the subject, and you have enough light to fill it, yes.
 
may seem a silly question but as the light has further to travel.......however small this distance may would there be any effect by this "delay"??

so would i be right to presum it be pointless to have one umbrella and a "flash" and so should just use two umbrellas???
 
Given that the speed of light is approximately 186,000 miles per second, moving your flashes a little further away from your subject shouldn't have any noticable delay. :)

Why would you think having a flash in a brolly and a bare flash would be pointless?
 
Kaouthia said:
Given that the speed of light is approximately 186,000 miles per second, moving your flashes a little further away from your subject shouldn't have any noticable delay. :)
Why would you think having a flash in a brolly and a bare flash would be pointless?
Click to expand...

i know it seemed silly, but baring in mind the speed of light it is the same from both flashes.....i didnt know if there would be any kind of problems with this "slight" delay.

with regards to the brolly and flash just seemed as if it maybe pointless that the brolly would help disperse the flash.....only to be flashed out by the second "non umbrella'd" flash
 
i dont mean to sound "arsey" or short just trying to learn a bit more, and I really wanna learn to be able to produce the best photos I can for my friends an family
 
Bowsa said:
i know it seemed silly, but baring in mind the speed of light it is the same from both flashes.....i didnt know if there would be any kind of problems with this "slight" delay.

with regards to the brolly and flash just seemed as if it maybe pointless that the brolly would help disperse the flash.....only to be flashed out by the second "non umbrella'd" flash
Click to expand...

Okay, I think you were being missunderstood. :)

You mean is there any point having one flash in an umbrella and another flash bare?

Yes, there is every point. It's one of my stock uses of two flashes - one as a key light through or into an umbrella and another bare (albiet either snooted or gobo'd to prevent flare) as a rim light or kicker.
 
The23rdman said:
Okay, I think you were being missunderstood. :)

Yes, there is every point. It's one of my stock uses of two flashes - one as a key light through or into an umbrella and another bare (albiet either snooted or gobo'd to prevent flare) as a rim light or kicker.
Click to expand...

sorry what do you mean by snooted or gobo'd.....if you could "dum" it down again that would be great thanks mate
 
Bowsa said:
i dont mean to sound "arsey" or short just trying to learn a bit more, and I really wanna learn to be able to produce the best photos I can for my friends an family
Click to expand...

It is a steepish leaning curve when trying something new. Do you have an Sb900 yet? There are also powerful powerpack systems, like the Lencarta Safari or Elinchrom Quadra range, there are a few choices to think about.

I would read anything to o with Strobist or actually Strobist.com Flickr has many groups to cover this part of photography.

Here is an excellent and illustrated tutorial which you may find interesting and invaluable.. It is also why I joined talkPhotography, because of the excellent instruction and images.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=225514
 
Bowsa said:
i dont mean to sound "arsey" or short just trying to learn a bit more, and I really wanna learn to be able to produce the best photos I can for my friends an family
Click to expand...

It's ok, I didn't think you came across as arsey at all, but you're talking billionths of a second. :)

It's very very common to have multiple light sources in a scene, especially if you're trying to completely crush the ambient light or are in a studio and need to possibly use 4 or more lights for your key light, fill light, rim/hair light and background light.

Each of these flashes may be set at different output levels, or perhaps one is further away from the subject (double the distance between the subject and the light, and you get approximately one quarter of the amount of light), or there may be different modifiers used on each to give a different look to the light.

Rough Edges said:
OOps, I knew something would go a bit wrong... Sorry..
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say you've gone wrong. In theory, they shouldn't. In practise though, it's not always the case. It's amazing the variety of colour shifts you can get from some light modifiers whether they be reflectors, softboxes, brollies or pick any other random modifier.

Some companies that manufacture these sorts of things just have much stricter controls over colour accuracy, neutrality and consistency.
 
A snoot is a tube made out of either a cloth or foam or more commonly cardboard. It's purpose is to narrow the beam of light from the flash so it is more directional and controllable with less light falloff - think of it like a lens hood but instead of stopping light coming in it stops it spreading out.

A gobo is short for a go between. It is simple anything that stops light going where you don't want it. Another name is a flag. You put this on the side of the back light or rim light cos it's pointing more towars the camera and you don't wanna get any flare in the lens. :)
 
@John, Thanks for the explanation. I am knew to strobist stuff myself, though I did wonder if white or silver were colder than one or the other, though I guess it would be a harder light with the Silver etc instead..
 
cheers guys this is turning out to be invaluable......could you please explain: - key light, fill light, rim/hair light and background light.



thanks
 
Rough Edges said:
though I guess it would be a harder light with the Silver etc instead..
Click to expand...

I'd say harsh more than hard. It's difficult to explain. You're still spreading the light out to a larger surface area, thus giving you an effectively larger light source as you'd have with a regular white brolly, but it tends to reflect more light back to a specific area, if that makes sense.

Sort of like a big concave mirror or the reflector around a torch, but with more spill. :)

White brollies tend to diffuse a lot more, you might lose an extra stop or two of light, but it tends to be a more even spread with a softer graduation of light falloff.

I don't have any silver brollies, or I'd shoot a couple of examples to better explain what I mean. :)
 
Bowsa said:
cheers guys this is turning out to be invaluable......could you please explain: - key light, fill light, rim/hair light and background light.
Click to expand...

Your key light is the main light on your subject that lights the parts that you generally want to highlight in the image.

The fill light just gives some light into the shadows to bring in some of the detail, but not enough light so that it overpowers your key light.

Your hair/rim light is used to give a nice glow or highlight edge to the darker side of your subject to help give it a bit more shapre and to separate it visually from the background.

The background light is used simply to light your background (if it needs it). Say, for example, a backdrop in a studio, or a wall behind your subject on a location shoot.
 
Hi John, Many thanks again.. Makes a lot more sense to me now.

I would naturally go for a white brolly over silver... Never knew quite why though... No worries with the examples. I get the idea and will do some searches on Flickr..

thanks

Simon
 
I must admit I haven't used a brolly since the "old" days of film, but I always used one then for portraits. This was before the days of auto everything, and if my memory serves me right, with a decent powered flash pointing into the brolly and away from the subject, f5.6 at the then "normal" speed of 125 gave lovely natural light to the subject. Thinking about it has made me decide to start again, anyone know who stocks a fairly simple and inexpensive brolly? Incidentally, a friend of mine had a standard white one like mine and sprayed the outer side with gold paint. As you might imagine it was all a bit heath robinson then, but it worked!
 
Our very own Flash in the Pan has some fine 43" convertible bounce brollies for 18 quid each I think. He does a smaller size too, but don't recall their diameter or price off-hand.
 
i'm not ready to let this thread die yet....... what about the settings on the back of the lights

1/8 1/4 etc

whats the purpose of these settings?
 
to adjust the power output level

You don't always need to hit your subject with the power of a supernova. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Our very own Flash in the Pan has some fine 43" convertible bounce brollies for 18 quid each I think. He does a smaller size too, but don't recall their diameter or price off-hand.
Click to expand...


They're a lot cheaper than that just now :naughty:
 
Kaouthia said:
to adjust the power output level

You don't always need to hit your subject with the power of a supernova. :)
Click to expand...


if I use a soft box is this to help stop subject looking washed out?? or is this due to the power settings??

thanks
 
1/4 = 1/4 of a full flash output
1/1 = A full strength flash output
etc

It's basically to allow you to designate how much light is output from your flash, allowing you to dictate exactly how you light a subject. This is referred to as manually lighting a subject.
The alternative is to allow the camera and flash system to to determine the settings using Canons eTTL or Nikon's iTTL etc. Whilst both systems can produce pleasing results, it tends to be a little unpredictable and doesn't necessarily match exactly what you had in mind.
An example of a manual setup can be found here
An example of an iTTL setup can be found here
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top