UMBRELLA VS SOFTBOX - PORTRAITS

EdinburghGary

EdinburghGary

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Guys,

Can I ask - what are the PRO's and CON's of the following items:

* 60" shoot through umbrella
* 60" reflective umbrella
* .5m x .5 m softbox
* 1m x 1m Soft Box
* 2m x 2m Soft Box

I have the 2 in 1 brollies at 60", and I want to know how a softbox would differ. They are not cheap for the biggies!!

Gary.
 
As far as I know the major benefit for the big ones is... they're big! So you've got a huge diffused light source that you can bring in really close to a subject.

The other thing is that you do sometimes get shadow from the arms of the umbrella which you obviously don't get with the softbox.
 
Explained in this article
The first of a series on light shaping tools - I must find time to do the rest...
 
Thanks Garry,

I have seen your name all over the place on this very subject whilst doing a little google research! :)

Check this out:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601131315376/

I think I am gonna attempt this with the reflective cover which turns my brolly into a reflective. I will attach it in reverse, and basically stop the spill from the back. Will report back.

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thanks Garry,

I have seen your name all over the place on this very subject whilst doing a little google research! :)

Check this out:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601131315376/

I think I am gonna attempt this with the reflective cover which turns my brolly into a reflective. I will attach it in reverse, and basically stop the spill from the back. Will report back.

Gary.
Click to expand...

An interesting idea, but this quote isn't really accurate "
I recently made a cover that encloses my shoot-thru umbrella, making it work like a softbox." What he has done may be helpful/useful but it won't behave like a softbox, the front isn't flat, it has supporting ribs and a hotshoe flash doesn't distribute the light evenly, as you can see from his pics.

I'm not saying it's useless, it may be wonderful - but it isn't a softbox.
 
Garry Edwards said:
An interesting idea, but this quote isn't really accurate "
I recently made a cover that encloses my shoot-thru umbrella, making it work like a softbox." What he has done may be helpful/useful but it won't behave like a softbox, the front isn't flat, it has supporting ribs and a hotshoe flash doesn't distribute the light evenly, as you can see from his pics.

I'm not saying it's useless, it may be wonderful - but it isn't a softbox.
Click to expand...

Oh of course. I am really wanting to deal with light spill. My "studio space" in the shop is I think is 12ft square, with the ceiling being maybe 14 to 16 ft. Whilst its plenty space for my subjects to be placed, it is gonna require though with regards to light spill.

A giant soft box may be on the cards, just want to use what I have to see if I can nail it.

Gary.
 
For shoots of kids I've just moved over from using a 60" brolly to a 55" octabox. I might well be talking out of my a**e as I'm still picking this stuff up as I go along but the softbox seems to be a lot more forgiving with kids as they move around, the intensity of the light still varies but the change is now where near as harsh as it was with the brolly.

I've not got much room but do try and light up a 6x6x6' space so kids can move around and have fun, the softbox certainly seems to uliminate that space more evenly - though it could all be in my head and I've just wasted a load more money :lol:
 
EdinburghGary said:
Check this out:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601131315376/
Click to expand...

What this guy is doing is increasing the efficiency of the shoot-through (vital with a small 285 gun) evening out the coverage and controlling the spill out of the back, but doing nothing about the front. I'm sure it will work fine, and would be really very even with a Stofen on the flash also. But it's an amateurish bodge (popular with strobists :D ) when you can get custom made shoot-though brolly/softboxes that at least look half decent, and are cheap.

If I was setting up a commercial portrait parlour I would move heaven and earth (and possibly a couple of walls) to get a huge 6ft octa softbox in there, and make it a style signature. Apart from looking the absolute bo11ocks and impressing the heck out of clients, the light is just sublime and it can be used in all sorts of ways. You could fit one in if you try.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Oh of course. I am really wanting to deal with light spill. My "studio space" in the shop is I think is 12ft square, with the ceiling being maybe 14 to 16 ft. Whilst its plenty space for my subjects to be placed, it is gonna require though with regards to light spill.

A giant soft box may be on the cards, just want to use what I have to see if I can nail it.

Gary.
Click to expand...

Having watched with interest at your pics of the shop, I think a hi-glide type arrangement would be great for your studio. the room looks like it would really suit it well.
 
In my limited experience shoot thru's in smallish spaces are a PITA, the light just goes everywhere and bounces off everything. Reflective's are a "bit" better but have their own drawbacks in that they are further from the subject so effectively smaller and can still scatter light more than you'd want to. Softbox FTW.
 
Adeyb said:
Having watched with interest at your pics of the shop, I think a hi-glide type arrangement would be great for your studio. the room looks like it would really suit it well.
Click to expand...

I will research them, not sure I have come across the product...

Kev M said:
In my limited experience shoot thru's in smallish spaces are a PITA, the light just goes everywhere and bounces off everything. Reflective's are a "bit" better but have their own drawbacks in that they are further from the subject so effectively smaller and can still scatter light more than you'd want to. Softbox FTW.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think I am gonna have to get one sooner rather than later. Still trying to make sure I need it first.

HoppyUK said:
What this guy is doing is increasing the efficiency of the shoot-through (vital with a small 285 gun) evening out the coverage and controlling the spill out of the back, but doing nothing about the front. I'm sure it will work fine, and would be really very even with a Stofen on the flash also. But it's an amateurish bodge (popular with strobists :D ) when you can get custom made shoot-though brolly/softboxes that at least look half decent, and are cheap.

If I was setting up a commercial portrait parlour I would move heaven and earth (and possibly a couple of walls) to get a huge 6ft octa softbox in there, and make it a style signature. Apart from looking the absolute bo11ocks and impressing the heck out of clients, the light is just sublime and it can be used in all sorts of ways. You could fit one in if you try.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info hoppy. Blimey, those things are pricey!!! If I get one will let you know.

Gary.
 
Gary, higlide is a system that fits to the ceiling and allows the lights to move about on rails. It also has risers that allow you to put the lights up when not using them and pull them down to the required height when you want to use them. (Studio lights that is!)

A couple of real benefits. Firstly they are always there and you don't have to fish them out and set them up, secondly no floor mounted stuff hence no cables, good for kids.

Made by bowens and, as usual, not cheap ;)
 
AliB said:
Gary, higlide is a system that fits to the ceiling and allows the lights to move about on rails. It also has risers that allow you to put the lights up when not using them and pull them down to the required height when you want to use them. (Studio lights that is!)

A couple of real benefits. Firstly they are always there and you don't have to fish them out and set them up, secondly no floor mounted stuff hence no cables, good for kids.

Made by bowens and, as usual, not cheap ;)
Click to expand...
Made by other people too, and none of them are cheap.
Your ceiling is just about high enough for one, having worked in studios with them and without them I can see the benefits - but personally prefer to use stands, which allow very precise light placement.
Mind you, I might think differently if I photographed kids.

Gary, I'm not sure that I TOTALLY agree with Hoppy about the Elinchrom Octabox (although it IS a good product) but I'm a bit surprised that you've spent all that money on your new shop/studio and seem to be trying to economise on the one thing that really matters - the lighting equipment.
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thanks Garry,

I have seen your name all over the place on this very subject whilst doing a little google research! :)

Check this out:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157601131315376/

I think I am gonna attempt this with the reflective cover which turns my brolly into a reflective. I will attach it in reverse, and basically stop the spill from the back. Will report back.

Gary.
Click to expand...


May I ask how much it cost to do it? I was thinking of doing this a while back but thinking of the cost of materials, I think it will be wise to spend on a softbox like Flash is the pan is selling.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Made by other people too, and none of them are cheap.
Your ceiling is just about high enough for one, having worked in studios with them and without them I can see the benefits - but personally prefer to use stands, which allow very precise light placement.
Mind you, I might think differently if I photographed kids.

Gary, I'm not sure that I TOTALLY agree with Hoppy about the Elinchrom Octabox (although it IS a good product) but I'm a bit surprised that you've spent all that money on your new shop/studio and seem to be trying to economise on the one thing that really matters - the lighting equipment.
Click to expand...


Thanks guys,

To clarify, I am not wanting to do this on the cheap. I am merely wanting to ensure that existing kit IS used if it CAN be used to the same effect. If I need to spend £500 on a softbox, I will. I want to understand what and why though, as the money I am pouring into the place is insane. I basically want to ensure that the money is used wisely. The trouble is, I am not really sure what I need.

My
 
EdinburghGary said:
Thanks guys,

To clarify, I am not wanting to do this on the cheap. I am merely wanting to ensure that existing kit IS used if it CAN be used to the same effect. If I need to spend £500 on a softbox, I will. I want to understand what and why though, as the money I am pouring into the place is insane. I basically want to ensure that the money is used wisely. The trouble is, I am not really sure what I need.

My
Click to expand...
Understood. Feel free to give me a ring, maybe I can help
 
I've only ever used a studio once with those ceiling rail things and it was flipping brilliant. Really very liberating in a strange sort of way. But the guy that used the studio most days told me that he found the lights were never in quite the right position and that they didn't go all the way to the ground which was annoying. Just some feedback for ya.

Get the huge octa Gary. Call it marketing ;) I'm serious, as it happens - these things are important. I once asked an advertising photographer why he used a Hasselbad and he said a) they are very good, and b) they impress clients. If you're paying for an expensive shoot you kinda don't want to see the photographer using a camera that looks just like uncle Jim's old Nikon D70.
 
Not saying you can't achieve what you want with your current kit Gary, but backing Hoppy up, here's another vote for going down the huge softbox route!

We have a Bowens Octabox 150, and it really does make life soooo much easier imho. (Wish you lived closer to come and try it out!) It's like moving a huge soft sun inside! :lol: Clients always go "ooohh" when the first see it too - which I asume is a good thing! :p

It's also worth bearing in mind that they're bloomin' heavy beasts, and a strong and stable stand is a must, especially if you've got "little people" in the studio! :runaway: ;)

Best of luck dude!
 
:plusone:

another vote for the Octa, I have a Bowens Octo 150 with a 750+ bowens head in it, its sublime! its on a sturdy calumet stand with a hefty weight on one leg.
 
It's the 2m Elinchrom Octa gentle giant I had in mind. £750 and 197cm of gor-juss-ness. Check the vid here and tell me you don't want one ;)

come to daddy
 
You could also go for a 50" Westcott Apollo softbox. They're not cheap , but they're :thumbs:

The one in the video is the 28" version....

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You could also go for a 50" Westcott Apollo softbox. They're not cheap , but they're :thumbs:

The one in the video is the 28" version....

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...


So many blooming choices! :D
 
EdinburghGary said:
So many blooming choices! :D
Click to expand...

Not really. For what you are trying to do, I would just head over to The Flash Centre, say Elinchrom please, and hand over the plastic.

Good gear like that should last you 20 years no probs. This technology doesn't date much.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
You could also go for a 50" Westcott Apollo softbox. They're not cheap , but they're :thumbs:

The one in the video is the 28" version....

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0gqqjb3D5Rg&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

You have to open the front panel to adjust the flash output though.
 
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