TTL Mode?????

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gmacro

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Without the risk of sounding dumb, I just wanted someone to explain to me what TTL mode is?

I have purchased some RF602's with a couple of receivers and now need to purchase a couple of speedlites. I was looking at the Yongnuo YN-460ii but they clearly state that they wont work in TTL mode. I dont want to go ahead and spend money on something that wont do what I need it to!

I have basically bought this set up just to practise with some family portraits so I am not using it for a business just purely my own entertainment!

Any help, is greatly appreciated!

Thanks
 
ttl - automatic (through the lens) - camera tells the flash how much to output
manual - manual (the 602s work only in manual) - you tell the flash how much to output.
 
so if the RF602's only work in manual mode anyway, theres no point in looking at the speedlights that do offer TTL mode?
 
gmacro said:
so if the RF602's only work in manual mode anyway, theres no point in looking at the speedlights that do offer TTL mode?
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Well yes and no. To work with the RF-602, the gun must be in manual so there's no point in getting an auto-TTL gun for that. But E-TTL (Canon) and iTTL (Nikon) guns work in both manual and also auto-TTL, so you have both options.

A compromise way forward might be to get at least one auto-TTL gun (preferably a master/commander) and maybe another auto-TTL slave for those times when you need the benefits of auto control. And then add a couple of cheaper manual guns for studio work when you don't really want auto flash anyway.
 
HoppyUK said:
Well yes and no. To work with the RF-602, the gun must be in manual so there's no point in getting an auto-TTL gun for that. But E-TTL (Canon) and iTTL (Nikon) guns work in both manual and also auto-TTL, so you have both options.

A compromise way forward might be to get at least one auto-TTL gun (preferably a master/commander) and maybe another auto-TTL slave for those times when you need the benefits of auto control. And then add a couple of cheaper manual guns for studio work when you don't really want auto flash anyway.
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That's the advantage in buying flashes with TTL capability. When I bought mine (Canon 580EX2's and 430EX2's) I then wondered why I spent the extra, as, like you, I'd be firing them with radio triggers. Recently I invested the time reading the manual properly and worked out how to use Canons wireless flash system. A lot of people talk about Nikons version, can't comment on that but now I know how it's done I am left wondering why I ever bothered with radio triggers! All that running around setting individual flashes up, when in TTL mode I can control everything from the back of my camera. I still have uses for radio triggers but when you want simple, and quick lighting solutions, then wireless TTL is a treat...once you've figured out how to do it. Canon's manuals are horrendously written and it took me a while to figure it all out but it is well worth it in the end.
 
Ste Manns said:
That's the advantage in buying flashes with TTL capability. When I bought mine (Canon 580EX2's and 430EX2's) I then wondered why I spent the extra, as, like you, I'd be firing them with radio triggers. Recently I invested the time reading the manual properly and worked out how to use Canons wireless flash system. A lot of people talk about Nikons version, can't comment on that but now I know how it's done I am left wondering why I ever bothered with radio triggers! All that running around setting individual flashes up, when in TTL mode I can control everything from the back of my camera. I still have uses for radio triggers but when you want simple, and quick lighting solutions, then wireless TTL is a treat...once you've figured out how to do it. Canon's manuals are horrendously written and it took me a while to figure it all out but it is well worth it in the end.
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Great post! A lot of folks think that auto-TTL flash is both unpredictable and uncontrollable, whereas if you know even just a little bit about how to use it and control it, it is neither! Fantastic invention.

And it is very fast to set up and get good results straight out of the box, it gives you the invalaluable option of high speed sync which is not possible any other way, and if your subject is moving and changing in distance (ie kids) then you just try and follow the exposure for that manually!
 
I think, as well, it's seen as 'cheating' or somehow not 'proper' using what is basically the green rectangle of flash. But it's just so easy to set up and use, it is consistent and it does work well outdoors too despite what people say about it being unreliable. If you want to tweak something, it's all done on the back of the camera, just a couple of button presses etc.

Joe McNally uses the Nikon version almost exclusively, he swears by it, I decided to learn how to use it after reading Hot Shoe Diaries (very good book).

The Nikon version is supposed to be a lot better than Canon's version, well I don't really know about that but the Canon version is very very useable and well worth trying out.
 
RF602's have a range of 80-100m, or less but in tight locations, i.e. in footwells of cars.

Canon ttl wireless has a working range of 10-15m, less if somethings in the way.
You can get a ST-E2 secondhand for around £100 to act as the master for the flash guns if you want them all off camera.

I use a mix of both. TTL if I can, manual via 602's if I need range.

Don't forget the 602's can act as a camera shutter trigger as well if you have the correct cable for the camera.
 
Anyone who doesn't appreciate TTL flash has never done weddings with a 35mm camera and manual flash in the days when manual flash was all there was. Unfortunately with our SLRs and DSLRs we're cursed with a focal plane shutter which imposes a maximum flash sync speed upon us.

In the days of manual flash you were constantly dividing the aperture into the guide number to give you the shooting distance, or dividing the shooting distance into the guide number to give you the aperture. There was little leeway for error it was so easy to make a mistake and you didn't need to be constantly doing the mental arithmetic under pressure.

Modern ETTL flashguns are seriously impressive bits of kit. :cool:
 
So as someone who's just bought RF 602s to experiment with OCF using a 430EXII - I need to have the flash in manual......or if I have the flash in ETTL mode it'll just fire as "manual" anyway cos the triggers don't do ETTL??

Am I making sense?
 
Yup, you need to have the flash in manual mode if using the wireless triggers....
 
Ste Manns said:
I think, as well, it's seen as 'cheating' or somehow not 'proper' using what is basically the green rectangle of flash. But it's just so easy to set up and use, it is consistent and it does work well outdoors too despite what people say about it being unreliable. If you want to tweak something, it's all done on the back of the camera, just a couple of button presses etc.

Joe McNally uses the Nikon version almost exclusively, he swears by it, I decided to learn how to use it after reading Hot Shoe Diaries (very good book).

The Nikon version is supposed to be a lot better than Canon's version, well I don't really know about that but the Canon version is very very useable and well worth trying out.
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That's true, some people do think any form of automation is cheating, and that you can't be a 'real photographer' unless you do everything in manual. I think some of these folks are from a bygone era and are reluctant to admit that their hard-won skills have, in fact, been neutered by technology.

It's a bit like enthusiast motorists who insist that a manual gearbox is better than any automatic. Yes, maybe better than an old four-speed slushbox, but a modern 6-speed dual-clutch auto changes gear faster and smoother than Lewis Hamilton, and gives better accelleration and better fuel economy too. And they do manual operation better too. Times change.

One US site that I post on has some very vocal contributors and it's all too easy to set them off. If you were to dare going on there are say I shoot weddings with a Fong on E-TTL and get better results than the local pro who's been doing it for decades, they will go berserk and treat you worse than a retarded Muslim terrorist.

On the other hand, the pragmatic approach is to use automation where it works best, and manual when it doesn't. Pretty simple really. And some aspects of technology not only allow you do things more easily/quickly, they also allow you to do things that previously you just could not do at all. And manual :D

Nikon vs Canon auto flash systems - they are essentially identical and work on exactly the same principles. You could argue it either way, and not be disappointed with either.
 
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