Tripod & Head Options - for Bird Photography ..... I'm confused !

OMattB

OMattB

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Matt Brookes
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I mainly photograph birds from sitting position (have have never fully extended my tripod) using a Velbon 200 and PH-157Q head with my Canon 7D Mk II with Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary or Canon f5.6 400mm.

While this set up is "adequate", it is quite heavy and "creeps" with camera and Sigma attached, creep not weight, is my main concern

So I am looking at upgrade solutions and to be honest am confused (doesn't take a lot)

My current thinking is .....

1) Ideally fit a new fluid head like a Manfrotto 500 Pro Fluid Video Head to my Velbon 200 legs. Been researching the internet and can find anything that suggests if this is possible. If not, does anyone have suggestions for similar heads that will work with Velbon 200 legs with my camera/lens combo?

2) Go for entirely new carbon fibre set up and fluid head. The problem with this is obviously cost and while the man at the camera shop was very keen to sell me a Manfrotto 500 Pro Fluid Video and carbon Manfrotto legs (forgot what model they were) and the set up was beautiful, it was a "bit expensive". So are there similar options or should explore, or should I bite the bullet go for the Manfrotto?

Any help greatly appreciated
 
The issue you have is this the lens when extended upsets the balance - I use a Gimbal head on my Manfrotto tripod amazing bit of kit - that said my Sony 200-600mm FE lens does NOT extend whilst changing the focal length and therefore is easy to balance

Maybe a fluid head will help- best advice take the camera and lens to the camera shop and try one out


Les :)
 
Which aspect is "creeping"?

The partially(?) extended centre column and/or the head not locking into position?

I echo in general with what @Lez325 says a gimbal head is the way to go but bearing in mind that if a zoom lens does by extending then the CoG will shift.

In the case of the creeping and it being the centre column doing it then no change of head will correct that ~ stating the obvious ;)

PS looks like the tripod and head are non interchangeable ~ not good especially as if you can get the head off, is there a common 3/8 inch stud to attach any normal head or gimbal to ???
 
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The Manfrotto 500 will fit your tripod using a 1/4-20 to 3/8-16 adaptor, and it is a suitable solution; fluid/pan-tilt heads are what we used to use before gimbals. And some professionals still use them. *The reason most don't use them any more is because fluid heads that can handle the weight of professional kit weigh quite a lot on their own... my Sachtler weighs about 7lbs alone; about 14lbs with tripod.

I use my gimbal with the Sigma 60-600, which also extends, and I don't find it to be at all problematic;
1. because the lens is almost always at max extension (i.e. length doesn't typically change), and
2. because the gimbal's ability to balance and hold any position is really only a significant benefit for waiting periods in-between taking pictures (i.e. it doesn't much matter while actually taking pictures).

The fact that your Velbon uses a 1/4-20 stud for attaching heads, and it has a 4kg max load, means it's low/entry level kit... but since it seems to work for you, I don't see a reason to replace it necessarily.
And the 500 is a very basic/entry fluid head with fixed drag and counter balance settings; whereas my (old/currently unused) Sachtler has a lot more options/adjustability. But still, my Gitzo fluid gimbal also has (essentially) fixed drag settings, and the flex shooter pro heads also have fixed counter balance... both cost significantly more. And the 500 is rated for 2x the weight the legs are; it's probably more than adequate IMO.

There are so many options and price points it's hard to give advice. And depending on your use there might be something else that might be even more suitable (i.e. are you sitting in a hide with a shelf?)


*(or they don't know the benefits of fluid damping)
 
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Lez325 said:
The issue you have is this the lens when extended upsets the balance - I use a Gimbal head on my Manfrotto tripod amazing bit of kit - that said my Sony 200-600mm FE lens does NOT extend whilst changing the focal length and therefore is easy to balance

Maybe a fluid head will help- best advice take the camera and lens to the camera shop and try one out


Les :)
Click to expand...
thanks for the advice Lez325 - makes absolute sense to take my kit to shop and try out and also going to look into gimbals (y) always been a bit daunted by them but think they could be the solution for what I want to achieve - thank you!
 
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Box Brownie said:
Which aspect is "creeping"?

The partially(?) extended centre column and/or the head not locking into position?

I echo in general with what @Lez325 says a gimbal head is the way to go but bearing in mind that if a zoom lens does by extending then the CoG will shift.

In the case of the creeping and it being the centre column doing it then no change of head will correct that ~ stating the obvious ;)

PS looks like the tripod and head are non interchangeable ~ not good especially as if you can get the head off, is there a common 3/8 inch stud to attach any normal head or gimbal to ???
Click to expand...
When tightening the handle with my 150-600 on, it seems to creep down. Works fine with 70-300 and 400 but its the weight of the equipment on the PH-157Q head which is causing the issue. Again great advice going to see if I can find a gimbal head to fit my existing legs as that might be the best and least expensive option, thank you
 
I cannot offer technical advice, however, I can share my personal experience - I also have the Sigma 150-600C and spend far too many hours photographing birds. I have tried all the options from monopod, tripod, better tripod, ball heads to Gimbal. I finally settled on a Manfrotto 055 with a Slik Gimbal SGH-300, however, I did have to add a 'much' longer plate in order to get the balance right and like others have mentioned zooming means adjusting balance so I tend to stay at 600.
 
sk66 said:
The Manfrotto 500 will fit your tripod using a 1/4-20 to 3/8-16 adaptor, and it is a suitable solution; fluid/pan-tilt heads are what we used to use before gimbals. And some professionals still use them. *The reason most don't use them any more is because fluid heads that can handle the weight of professional kit weigh quite a lot on their own... my Sachtler weighs about 7lbs alone; about 14lbs with tripod.

I use my gimbal with the Sigma 60-600, which also extends, and I don't find it to be at all problematic;
1. because the lens is almost always at max extension (i.e. length doesn't typically change), and
2. because the gimbal's ability to balance and hold any position is really only a significant benefit for waiting periods in-between taking pictures (i.e. it doesn't much matter while actually taking pictures).

The fact that your Velbon uses a 1/4-20 stud for attaching heads, and it has a 4kg max load, means it's low/entry level kit... but since it seems to work for you, I don't see a reason to replace it necessarily.
And the 500 is a very basic/entry fluid head with fixed drag and counter balance settings; whereas my (old/currently unused) Sachtler has a lot more options/adjustability. But still, my Gitzo fluid gimbal also has (essentially) fixed drag settings, and the flex shooter pro heads also have fixed counter balance... both cost significantly more. And the 500 is rated for 2x the weight the legs are; it's probably more than adequate IMO.

There are so many options and price points it's hard to give advice. And depending on your use there might be something else that might be even more suitable (i.e. are you sitting in a hide with a shelf?)


*(or they don't know the benefits of fluid damping)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the detailed and very helpful response. What I am now working on based on what you and the others have said, is keeping the legs as they currently are adequate for my needs, and am going to look at a gimbal as I think that's the way forward. I don't sit in a hide but mainly in ditches or on hilltops (South Downs) with a camo net draped over me - thank you for your advice
 
Compuwight said:
I cannot offer technical advice, however, I can share my personal experience - I also have the Sigma 150-600C and spend far too many hours photographing birds. I have tried all the options from monopod, tripod, better tripod, ball heads to Gimbal. I finally settled on a Manfrotto 055 with a Slik Gimbal SGH-300, however, I did have to add a 'much' longer plate in order to get the balance right and like others have mentioned zooming means adjusting balance so I tend to stay at 600.
Click to expand...
thank you for this - will check this combo out!
 
@OMattB

I have looked at the Velbon website and the "suggested recommended weight" max load??? is 3kg.

The received wisdom is when a manufacturer gives a loading weight they are optimistic!

Therefore, what is the maximum weight of body and lens & any head such as a gimbal that you will mount on the legs?

Oh, have you actually removed the current head and confirmed that it has a conventional 3/8 or 1/4 inch stud on the centre column?

All the best with your choice and enjoying a better experience photographing the wildlife :)
 
I just replaced my manfrotto fluid head for one of these, or should I say swapped. I’m keeping the manfrotto head too.


I got it for £35 on the warehouse too.
It holds my Sony a9 and 200-600 with ease.

Fluid head are great for video, where you want a little resistance for slow pans, but a gimbal allows very quick movement when needed.

Ive also bought one of these


I’ll probably put the neweer one on my monopod and put the carbon fibre one on my tripod to decrease the weight a bit, as my tripod is pretty heavy on its own.
 
Lez325 said:
You won't go far wrong with one of these- I have one and it does the job 100%



Les :)
Click to expand...
Crumbs, apart from the position scale graduations the design looks like 100% copy of a Wimberley design! Granted the frame is Carbon Fibre but I have not often seen such "exact copies" of products. Aren't designs protected both here and in the likes of the USA???

Though I surmise prosecuting a case for an infringement in China is nigh on impossible...... isn't there now an almost exact copy of a Range Rover model but they have been unable to stop it!
 
The Neewer one is remarkably good value for money. I had one, but sold it on when I changed to a heavier duty Manfrotto one.

I'm sure they've probably fixed this problem with the later models, but the one I had came with a sticky lubricant that I'd intended to change, but actually never did.

Anyway, it's an easy fix:

View: https://youtu.be/zt9nkiBMlYQ
 
I have a jobu junior gimbal ,which I’m thinking about selling soon . Not used it since I changed to Olympus
 
the black fox said:
I have a jobu junior gimbal ,which I’m thinking about selling soon . Not used it since I changed to Olympus
Click to expand...
I am looking at buying the Wimberley monogimbal imminently but would be very interested in the Jobu Jnr gimbal. Could you give me a heads up if you decide to put it in the classifieds please.
 
Sky said:
The Neewer one is remarkably good value for money. I had one, but sold it on when I changed to a heavier duty Manfrotto one.

I'm sure they've probably fixed this problem with the later models, but the one I had came with a sticky lubricant that I'd intended to change, but actually never did.

Anyway, it's an easy fix:

View: https://youtu.be/zt9nkiBMlYQ
Click to expand...
I have one of those too- stopped using it because it was a little stiff when rotating- I will give this a go see how I get on

Les :)
 
the black fox said:
I have a jobu junior gimbal ,which I’m thinking about selling soon . Not used it since I changed to Olympus
Click to expand...
.... That's what I use when in a hide (including my own) or when intending to do some ground level shots with it mounted on a Skimmer (looks like a frisbee). The heaviest gear I have mounted on it regularly is a Canon 1DX-2 + EF 500mm F/4L II + 2x Extender, all without any problems whatsoever. I now shoot Olympus Pro gear including their latest big white supertelephoto - Again, no issues with weight or balance or lockdown. Lockdown performance is often overlooked but is extremely important to avoid unintended creep.
 
JohnC6 said:
I use this Jobu BWG Junior (Jnr) because I had a problem with slight vibration as the photo was taken when my 100-400 let alone the Sigma 150-600 was on a ball head. It's sorted out that issue.that

Jobu website ..It's Canadian. http://www.jobudesign.co.uk/BWG-J3K-Jobu-Jr.3-Compact-Gimbal-Head

Carmarthen Cameras are good https://carmarthencameras.com/jobu-design-bwg-j3k-jobu-jr-3-gimbal-kit-with-swing-arm-hm-j2.html

A 2018 review https://photographylife.com/reviews/jobu-design-black-widow-jr
Click to expand...
.... I bought mine from Carmarthen Cameras too - Excellent customer service and a great product still going strong after a number of years.

My version has its Arca-Swiss clamp integrated so it's all very compact and tidy and less moving parts.
 
Box Brownie said:
@OMattB

I have looked at the Velbon website and the "suggested recommended weight" max load??? is 3kg.

The received wisdom is when a manufacturer gives a loading weight they are optimistic!

Therefore, what is the maximum weight of body and lens & any head such as a gimbal that you will mount on the legs?

Oh, have you actually removed the current head and confirmed that it has a conventional 3/8 or 1/4 inch stud on the centre column?

All the best with your choice and enjoying a better experience photographing the wildlife :)
Click to expand...
VERY Good point - I am now thinking about a Gimbal (not going down the Manfrotto 500 Pro Fluid Video Head route) but with the added weight of lens and camera I will likely be overloading it. Probably need to rethink and get a tripod with a heavier load limit!
 
Sky said:
The Neewer one is remarkably good value for money. I had one, but sold it on when I changed to a heavier duty Manfrotto one.

I'm sure they've probably fixed this problem with the later models, but the one I had came with a sticky lubricant that I'd intended to change, but actually never did.

Anyway, it's an easy fix:

View: https://youtu.be/zt9nkiBMlYQ
Click to expand...
yes I've been researching Neewer and it does look an easy if messy fix !
 
OMattB said:
yes I've been researching Neewer and it does look an easy if messy fix !
Click to expand...
It doesn't need fixing... I actually purchased my Gitzo gimbal head specifically because it has fluid drag (grease cartridges).
This guy knows a few things (and uses a pro video head as well).

View: https://youtu.be/vmvcui3m_a4
 
sk66 said:
It doesn't need fixing... I actually purchased my Gitzo gimbal head specifically because it has fluid drag (grease cartridges).
This guy knows a few things (and uses a pro video head as well).

View: https://youtu.be/vmvcui3m_a4
Click to expand...
Going for it and a secondhand Manfrotto MT055XPRO3 which has a 9kg load limit vs my Velbon Sherpa 200's 3kg!!! Thanks for all your help
 
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