Trigger voltage question

User.81858

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,188
Name
Charles
Edit My Images
Yes
I have acquired a Elicar V-HQ GN11 auto Thrystor ring flash. I think this was made for film cameras. Any opinions on possible problems regarding trigger voltage using on digital camera. Could it damage the camera? Any info would be most helpful.
 
It might do bit information on that flash is limited.
Im sure there is a way you can measure the trigger voltage if you are electrically minded.

To play safe there are two ways to avoid harming your camera.

The first is to use a device called a sync safe which goes between the flash and the hotshoe but these arent cheap

The other option would be to use the flash off camera using cheap triggers.
 
I think this was made for film cameras. Any opinions on possible problems regarding trigger voltage using on digital camera


Hot shoes and sync ports are activated both
by simple continuity detection. The trigger is
started from the camera at the nominal voltage
of the battery and triggers a switch in the flash.

When it come to triggering, the camera "sends"
the signal and the flash reacts. There is no other
interaction between these at anytime through the
triggering connection. In this regard, you're safe in
any way:
— if it works, you'll get a pop
— if it doesn't, the nominal trigger voltage in not
activating the switch and there will be no response
from the flash.

The camera triggers the flash which, in any case.
is a passive and responsive only element in the circuit.
…pretty much like a simple light switch!
 
Hot shoes and sync ports are activated both
by simple continuity detection. The trigger is
started from the camera at the nominal voltage
of the battery and triggers a switch in the flash.

When it come to triggering, the camera "sends"
the signal and the flash reacts. There is no other
interaction between these at anytime through the
triggering connection. In this regard, you're safe in
any way:
— if it works, you'll get a pop
— if it doesn't, the nominal trigger voltage in not
activating the switch and there will be no response
from the flash.

The camera triggers the flash which, in any case.
is a passive and responsive only element in the circuit.
…pretty much like a simple light switch!
The voltage comes from the trigger, not the camera.

I used to have a link to a table of trigger voltages if old flashguns, because a generation of cameras* could be damaged, but modern ones are better protected, the flash you have isn't listed. However I think there's a method online for testing, the other safe option is cheap triggers.

*IIRC it was generally a Canon issue, but others were affected.
 
Look in your camera manual. Most cameras are rated to 250v. Try to ignore the paranoia associated with this.


Steve.
 
Trigger voltage is measured between the center pin and the outer ground on the flash foot. If you think it may be high voltage make sure you use a meter set to measure high DC voltages (and take care).
The hotshoe simply connects (switches) those two points in order to cause a flash to fire.
 
The voltage comes from the trigger, not the camera.


Yep!

…03:48 in the night and after four hours of mentoring,
I should have gone straight to bed :exit:


Yes, the camera closes the circuit :banghead:

Thanks for ringing the bell Phil!:facepalm:
Look in your camera manual. Most cameras are rated to 250v. Try to ignore the paranoia associated with this.

+1(y)
 
Last edited:
Charles, you may find the following useful if you are trying to measure the trigger voltage of you flash unit. Its a detailed way of just how to measure it.(y)


Flash Trigger Voltage.


Trigger voltage is measured between centre pin and edge contact on the flash's hot-foot.
To check an unknown trigger voltage, you'll need a digital multimeter. For most reliable result, the input impedance of the meter should be 10 mohm, or higher.

To measure, put fresh batteries in the flash you want to check, and charge the flash until the “ready” lamp (or equivalent) is lit. Then set the range selector on the meter to the most sensitive DC range. To find the right range, start with the highest DC range and go downwards until the meter indicates you are out of range. Then back up one step. This is the most sensitive range. You should now be able to read the flash's trigger voltage from the meter's display.

You meter the voltage between the centre pin and the edge contact. If there is more than one pin below the flash, it is the centre one you're interested in. It will make contact with the large round contact in the centre of the camera's hot-shoe. The edge contact may be a small metal square recessed in the hot-foot, or something larger. It is designed to make contact with the metal of the mounting bar on the edge of the camera's hot-shoe. You always connect the negative probe (black on most meters) to the edge contact, and then connect the positive probe (red on most meters) to the centre pin.

Measuring voltage with a digital multimeter. Black probe on edge contact, red probe on centre pin.
Prior to metering, I've set the meter to use the range 0 to 20 volts. I use my hands to connect the points of the positive and negative probes to the metal of the Speedlight's hot-foot.

Alternatively, you can measure the voltage between the centre (+) and edge (-) of the pc-socket.
Note that older analog voltmeters may have a low input impedance which may result in a voltage drop inside the meter. This will result in a too low reading. For best results, use a digital meter with a impedance of 10 mohm or more.

Sometimes, the gap between the foot of the flash and the screw for fixing it in the hot-shoe may be too narrow for the meter's probe to reach the metal of the edge contact. If the flash has a pc-socket, you can alternatively measure the trigger voltage from the pc-socket.

You connect the negative probe (black on most meters) to the edge, and the positive (red on most meters) to the centre of the pc-socket.

In addition to the trigger voltage, the polarity of the flash is important. All modern cameras expects the centre pin of the flash to be positive and the edge contact to be negative.

If things are the other way around (reverse polarity), even a very low voltage may cause harm. If the unit has reverse polarity, you will see this by the voltage displayed as a negative number (a minus-sign is placed in front) on the display of a digital multimeter. Never use a flash with reverse polarity on a modern camera!


George.
 


…otherwise?
It most likely just wont trigger.
Modern cameras use thyristors for flash triggering... in terms of current direction they act as diodes only allowing current to flow in one direction. However, if enough reverse voltage is applied they will overload into reverse flow, unlike a diode which will blow instead.
However, all electrical components have a limit before material failure. The lowest I have seen for a very small thyristor is 30v, but 400-600v is common (this limit is typically bi-directional). There is little chance of damage to the camera as a whole, but it is possible to fry the thyristor making the hotshoe non-functional.
 
I don't think there's been a flash with high (external) triggering voltage made in over 2 decades... And these days there are so many "cheap" options available I don't know why anyone would even mess w/ them.
 
It most likely just wont trigger.
Modern cameras use thyristors for flash triggering... in terms of current direction they act as diodes




That's what I thought, Steven!

My question was in reaction to the alarm ringing, very
threatening alarm as it sounded like in George's post!
 
The ISO max for flash triggering is 24V but the majority of modern flash guns work at under 12V and this is the recommended max by many manufacturers. I have a Nikon flash that measures at 28.5V with a DVM and it instantly blew the cheap radio trigger I used it with. I now use a Wein safe synch. If it weren't for the fact that the flash is integral with the lens (Medical Nikkor) I would just scrap the flash.
 
The ISO max for flash triggering is 24V but the majority of modern flash guns work at under 12V and this is the recommended max by many manufacturers. I have a Nikon flash that measures at 28.5V with a DVM and it instantly blew the cheap radio trigger I used it with. I now use a Wein safe synch. If it weren't for the fact that the flash is integral with the lens (Medical Nikkor) I would just scrap the flash.
I've heard Yongnuos (602/603) are limited to 12v...
 
I have read a lot of blogs about this and most say dont put this type of flash on a modern digital. Don't see need to myself as flashes are that cheap
 
Last edited:
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions on this subject. I did not buy the flash It was given to me by a friend. I have loaded new batteries and measured the voltage and it is 5.8 volts. When I shorted out the terminals the flash works as does the thyristor control. I have formed the opinion that I could probably use the flash but I have decided that because of the cheap price of a new one, it is not worth the risk of a costly camera repair so I will not be using the flash and will return it to my friend. Thanks again for your assistance and taking the trouble to post. Charlie.
 
I would like to thank everyone for their contributions on this subject. I did not buy the flash It was given to me by a friend. I have loaded new batteries and measured the voltage and it is 5.8 volts. When I shorted out the terminals the flash works as does the thyristor control. I have formed the opinion that I could probably use the flash but I have decided that because of the cheap price of a new one, it is not worth the risk of a costly camera repair so I will not be using the flash and will return it to my friend. Thanks again for your assistance and taking the trouble to post. Charlie.
I'd have a go with it personally, you can see the voltage is way below safe for your camera which has trigger voltage ceiling of 250v.
 
Last edited:
Well now. I had a talk with an electronics expert friend he said no problem, and with Phil and Steven nudging me on I decided to stick it on my D90 and give it a try and it works. My camera does not seem to have suffered any ill effects at all. Thanks again everyone.
 
Well now. I had a talk with an electronics expert friend he said no problem, and with Phil and Steven nudging me on I decided to stick it on my D90 and give it a try and it works. My camera does not seem to have suffered any ill effects at all. Thanks again everyone.
Did you hold your breath when you pressed the shutter button? :-)
 
Back
Top