Thinking of a change

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Mark65

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Mark
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Hi all, so I've had my Z6 for a year now and I added the 50mm 1.8s lens which I use pretty much all of the time, I'm thinking of changing as the eye focus isn't the greatest and I've always had mixed feelings with the Z6, sometimes I get a nice image and sometimes not, my grand kids are into there gymnastics and dancing, well 3 are the youngest is 9 months. I want something that has great eye auto focus and fast focus in general for taking images of them while active, it still seems Sony rule with this as far as I can see, I'm looking at the Z7ii and the Sony A7RIVa which is on Panamoz for 2k body only, both higher res cameras as at the gymnastics you cant walk out on the floor so probably would need cropping and the Sony can be reduced to 30 meg and below according to Mr Rockwell, if anyone has experience with the Sony how do you feel about it.
Thanks for any help
Mark
 
I have owned a couple of A7RIV bodies, I currently still have an A7RIVa.

In terms of eye a.f, reliability it is probably the worst choice. The A9 series and the A1 are much better, the A7IV is a little better, even though thought the A7III doesn't have real time eye a.f, in my opinion it is more reliable in terms of eye a.f as well. The A7RIVa is defo not a camera suited for things like gymnastics and dancing.

The resolution is great if you need a high res body, but it feels like a slow camera in use. The new A7RV is supposedly supposed to have solved this but I haven't used one of those. The downside with a high res body is that noise perfomance won't be as good.

If you want good a,f but donlt have the budget for an A9 series camera or an A1, the A7IV is probably the best option at the moment.

If you need another 50mm lens so you have like for like there is a few options.

Sony 50mm f/1.8 - awful lens in terms of a.f, very slow.

Samyang 50 f/1.4 - There two version of these the older one has horrendous a.f performance, the newer one is slightly better but still not great,

Zeiss Planar 50 f/1.4 - A.F is a bit pedestrian, image quality has nice character, very heavy cumbersome lens.

Sigma 50 f/1.4 - Vey large and cumbersome lens as is just adapted from DSLR version, reasonable sharp and good image quality, reasonable a.f but struggles a bit in backlit situations.

Sony 55mm f/1.8 - Very small light weight lens, reasonably sharp, a.f is reasonably fast, has pretty bad C.A, ugly O.O.F areas are a bit messy and colours straight out of camera arenlt always pleasing.

Samyang 45mm - Cheap, if you get a good copy (bit of a lottery with Samyang) a.f reliability is okay, image quality is okay. Lots of bad copies around though.

Sony 50 f/1.2 - Heavy, large and expensive. Amazing lens, super fast a.f, with superb image quality.

There are a few other 50mm ish lens options as well but those are the ones I have used.

In terms of lens choice if you don't have the budget for a 50 f/1.2. you might better to go the route of using both a 35 and 85. Both the Sony 35 f/1.8 and 85 f/1.8 have fast reliable a.f, they both do have C.A and messy not always nice bokeh but would seem a good choice for gymnastics and dancing.
 
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Thanks /2.8, every now and then the z6 is great, especially when the eye focus works but you have to be close, I can't see Nikon updating the firmware again so it is what it is, I thought about the Z6/7 M2 bodies and keeping my lenses but when I see review videos on the Sony's the focus seems very fast and locks in to the eye a lot better.
Its a shame all our camera shops are fine here otherwise I would rent one and try it.
Thanks
Mark
 
The canon r6 eye focus is incredible. A few of my Sony friends tried mine and their facial expression said it all . In saying that they are using the a7 3/4 so not idea what the newest one is like
 
I have the Canon R6 and use it in low light at the arena [the main spotlights are no longer used]. It's excellent. With the very busy spaces on a basketball court, I don't use the eye tracking - too many people in close proximity flying about and it gets confused but in situations that are not crowded it is very good. I did use it recently on the beach to track an egret and it locked on to that small bird [only had my 70-200 with me] like a magnet. I used it at the commonwealth games and I was very pleased with the results.
 
As already said the Canon eye tracking is on another level amazing, I’m using an R5 but the R6 is the same
 
Mark65 said:
Thanks /2.8, every now and then the z6 is great, especially when the eye focus works but you have to be close, I can't see Nikon updating the firmware again so it is what it is, I thought about the Z6/7 M2 bodies and keeping my lenses but when I see review videos on the Sony's the focus seems very fast and locks in to the eye a lot better.
Its a shame all our camera shops are fine here otherwise I would rent one and try it.
Thanks
Mark
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The only Nikon with better af that your Z6 is the Z9. The Zii bodies don’t have better af so don’t fall into that trap.

If I was starting from scratch, I’d look at either canon or fuji. R6 ii canon or X-H2s on thé fuji side. Both have free weekend loan services so you can try before you buy. Personally I’d seriously look at Fuji.
 
Hi Pete, I saw the reviews on the R6ii not seeing it on panamoz or infin, looks good with fast auto focus but I would have to pay the full uk cost, not sure who loans them, I don't think we have any camera shops anymore here.
i will have a look at the Fuji`s.
Managed this today of my grand daughter
www.talkphotography.co.uk

Pic(s) you took today - an open thread

S.M.Spitfire in the workshop
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
 
Fuji and canon do the loan schemes. Canon probably won’t have the R6ii on it for a while but you can try an R6 which will give you a pretty good idea.
 
Mark65 said:
Hi Pete, I saw the reviews on the R6ii not seeing it on panamoz or infin, looks good with fast auto focus but I would have to pay the full uk cost, not sure who loans them, I don't think we have any camera shops anymore here.
i will have a look at the Fuji`s.
Managed this today of my grand daughter
www.talkphotography.co.uk

Pic(s) you took today - an open thread

S.M.Spitfire in the workshop
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
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You don’t need the R6ii, the first gen is what Pete referred to and is more than up to the job and is available grey.

For the test drive, you just go to the manufacturers website, you don’t need a local shop.
 
Regarding which manufacturer is best for eye AF it will change all the time. Sony bring out a body, it's the best there is, Canon then bring out a new body and guess what, it's the best there is. Most of the current bodies will be more than up to the job. That being said, I agree with f2.8 regarding the A7RIV, it's not the best when it comes to tracking AF.

I swapped to the A9II from the A7RIV and the performance difference is night and day. Another thing to consider is the blackout free shooting makes it easier to follow your subject too. I can't say I've missed the high mp files. Don't get me wrong, if I had the extra mp I wouldn't complain for the odd time I'd need them (such as wildlife) but I can crop the A9II images very heavily and still get great IQ.

You say that your 50mm is attached to your camera most of the time, I assume you don't use this for gymnastics?
 
Hi snerkler, at the minute I'm just using the 50 and using it for casual shots of the grand kids.
I've been looking at the Canon R6ii, don't get me wrong I know the Z6 can take a nice image as Ive done it but it misses a lot with movement, now that could easily be me and not all the cameras fault, Panomoz have said there expecting the R6ii at the end of the month so at the moment its between that and the Sony A7IV, it may be a new body and a used lens so will see what the price is as they are both at my limit for cash. I may just try the loan scheme Pete mentioned.
 
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Mark65 said:
Hi snerkler, at the minute I'm just using the 50 and using it for casual shots of the grand kids.
I've been looking at the Canon R6ii, don't get me wrong I know the Z6 can take a nice image as Ive done it but it misses a lot with movement, now that could easily be me and not all the cameras fault, Panomoz have said there expecting the R6ii at the end of the month so at the moment its between that and the Sony A7IV, it may be a new body and a used lens so will see what the price is as they are both at my limit for cash. I may just try the loan scheme Pete mentioned.
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Obviously a 50mm is not ideal for gymnastics and if you used a more appropriate lens for the job then you'd have much less need to crop and therefore less need for a high mp body.

In terms of casual photos of the grand kids if you're using eye-af and it's saying that it's locking on then I would suggest this is not the photographer's fault. Of course you can always revert to the older style of shooting and not rely on eye-af to see if that gives you a better keeper rate. Using large apertures on moving subjects like this is always going to give you less keepers, but I'd still expect a high hit rate on modern mirrorless cameras. I assume your Z6 is up to date with all the latest firmware and so has the latest AF?

Between the R6ii and A7IV the R6ii is looking like the better body according to the reviews I've seen, however there is one big problem with the Canon mirrorless system and that's the cost an library of native lenses. The Canon EOS R lenses are very expensive on the whole, and they're limited. Sony have many more lenses to choose from, and have opened up their system to third party and so you have even more options, and they tend to be cheaper. Some of the third party lenses for the Sony e-mount are top draw.
 
Mark65 said:
Hi snerkler, at the minute I'm just using the 50 and using it for casual shots of the grand kids.
I've been looking at the Canon R6ii, don't get me wrong I know the Z6 can take a nice image as Ive done it but it misses a lot with movement, now that could easily be me and not all the cameras fault, Panomoz have said there expecting the R6ii at the end of the month so at the moment its between that and the Sony A7IV, it may be a new body and a used lens so will see what the price is as they are both at my limit for cash. I may just try the loan scheme Pete mentioned.
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I actually not so long ago jumped from the Canon r6 to the Sony A7IV. The main reason was that eye AF was not dependable enough for my application. The specific selection of a person was not possible with eye AF which meant that other people in the frame would unintentionally be focused on. Not ideal when you want focus to remain on somebody like a bride when they close their eyes to laugh for example, I found that as soon as this happened I would be focused on somebody else in the background. The Sony A7IV is much better in that respect. Further more as @snerkler has quite rightly said - you have a much wider selection of lenses to choose from, where as with Canon mirrorless you are largely limited to just old EF glass with the adapter or the new more expensive RF glass. There's little to no third party RF lenses out there.

The new R6ii is supposed to improve on the AF abilities, but I'm not sure the options will be as customisable as Sony's offerings in the respect of eye AF.
 
Ok thanks for the info, I may wait till after xmas to make a decision, maybe find a camera shop and have a feel.
 
You have said it pretty much that if you want the new fancy features you need the new fanciest toys - namely A1 with 50 1.2GM.

The question is IF you need it NOW.

R6 / R6 ii are both a major step down in resolution (if that matters to you) and EVF quality. It is a camera you buy as a last resort compromise, because you own Canon glass and can't afford either R5 or R3 or 1DXIII
 
Hi, as much as I would like A1 and such, I'm trying to find a reasonable middle ground, I'm still looking and reading people's thoughts, I'm not overly bothered with video just decent images.
I'm controlling the urge to buy till after Xmas I hope, I understand stand what your saying though.
Thanks
Mark
 
Mark65 said:
Hi, as much as I would like A1 and such, I'm trying to find a reasonable middle ground, I'm still looking and reading people's thoughts, I'm not overly bothered with video just decent images.
I'm controlling the urge to buy till after Xmas I hope, I understand stand what your saying though.
Thanks
Mark
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The only thing to consider is the black friday deals and current cash back offers ;)
 
Hi,
So I was offered 1380, possibly a bit more if its mint for my Z6 kit today against the Sony A7iv which is on offer for 2149 body only, so I would still have the cf card. spare battery and the 50mm 1.8s to sell.
Now I need a lens new or used that would be great to use without selling any organs 50mm would be fine but open to recommendations sony or third party, can any one recommend a few, need to let them know tomorrow, Im assuming the A7iv is being discontinued at that price as it only £200 more than e infin but a better trade in than MPB, I might take a chance on the z6ii but it doesn't seem to be that much better.
Thanks
Mark
 
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There's the Sony 55mm f1.8 which is reasonably small and light and possibly reasonably priced given it's balance of strengths and weaknesses. Maybe stay away from the cheap Sony 50mm f1.8 as there's a question mark over the focusing of that lens.
 
Hi woof woof, is that the ziess lens

Sony SEL55F18Z.AE 55mm f/1.8 ZA​

 
Mark65 said:
Hi,
So I was offered 1380, possibly a bit more if its mint for my Z6 kit today against the Sony A7iv which is on offer for 2149 body only, so I would still have the cf card. spare battery and the 50mm 1.8s to sell.
Now I need a lens new or used that would be great to use without selling any organs 50mm would be fine but open to recommendations sony or third party, can any one recommend a few, need to let them know tomorrow, Im assuming the A7iv is being discontinued at that price as it only £200 more than e infin but a better trade in than MPB, I might take a chance on the z6ii but it doesn't seem to be that much better.
Thanks
Mark
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I have the Samyang 50mm FE II which is a lovely lens, renders beautifully. AF has been great for me, but whether it would be OK with kids running around I don’t know.

As woof woof’s mentioned the 55mm f1.8 is a very sharp lens, I just find it lacks character. YMMV. Forget the Sony 50mm f1.8 as AF is poor.

You’ve then got the more expensive Sony Zeiss 50mm f1.4 and the very expensive but stunning Sony 50mm f1.2 G Master.
 
Mark65 said:
Hi woof woof, is that the ziess lens

Sony SEL55F18Z.AE 55mm f/1.8 ZA​

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Yup.

Unlike snerkler I don't think it particularly lacks character. It's sharp across the frame from wide open and the bokeh isn't usually objectionable. If you do read or watch any reviews you'll possibly see that some think its bokeh is quite good. For me the biggest issue is that it isn't a 50mm it's a 55mm but some people aren't afflicted with weapons grade ocd and may be able to live with that :D

I'm sure you can find reviews and example pictures on line.

omvOAi5.jpg


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Like some other Sony lenses it can give some ca particularly with scenes containing high contrast backlit subjects.

It is IMO worth at least a look unless you insist on f1.4 or f1.2,
 
Hi, thanks, Im still here reading watching reviews its head to head with the a7iv and possibly the Z6ii which i have the battery cage 50mm lens and flash for, price difference is £750 vs £400 body only :oops: :$, I feel like getting my sure shot supreme and a roll of film out lol.
 
Mark65 said:
Hi, thanks, Im still here reading watching reviews its head to head with the a7iv and possibly the Z6ii which i have the battery cage 50mm lens and flash for, price difference is £750 vs £400 body only :oops: :$, I feel like getting my sure shot supreme and a roll of film out lol.
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Pros and cons for each. Sony A7iv arguably has the better AF, higher mp count, more customisation and more native lens choice. Nikon Z6ii has better ergonomics, better EVF and LCD and I personally prefer Nikon’s colour science (although Sony’s can be rectified using the Color Fidelity profiles).

I’d still like to be a Nikon shooter but the truth is the Nikon Z system doesn’t have what I need. If all you want is a 50mm then the Nikon Z 50mm f1.8 is hard to beat (for f1.8’s).
 
snerkler said:
Nikon Z6ii has better ergonomics
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Marginally at best. Both are a million miles away from what I would consider good ergonomics like d850 or z9
snerkler said:
better EVF
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The opposite is clearly true. Z6ii, identical to MK1 here, is very out of date design, and compared to Sony is barely usable
 
LongLensPhotography said:
Marginally at best. Both are a million miles away from what I would consider good ergonomics like d850 or z9

The opposite is clearly true. Z6ii, identical to MK1 here, is very out of date design, and compared to Sony is barely usable
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I prefer the ergonomics of the Z6 and Z7 over the D850 and Z9, for me they’re the best I’ve used.

As for the EVF the Z6 II and A7iv are both approx 3.7 million dot quad vga oled but Sony’s always go ‘grainy’ during focussing and you can sometimes get rainbow effect. Nikon’s we’re much better ime.
 
snerkler said:
I prefer the ergonomics of the Z6 and Z7 over the D850 and Z9, for me they’re the best I’ve used.

As for the EVF the Z6 II and A7iv are both approx 3.7 million dot quad vga oled but Sony’s always go ‘grainy’ during focussing and you can sometimes get rainbow effect. Nikon’s we’re much better ime.
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Nikon is older, much noisier with some colour noise, and much more laggy. I've compared them side to side
 
Mark65 said:
Hi, thanks, Im still here reading watching reviews its head to head with the a7iv and possibly the Z6ii which i have the battery cage 50mm lens and flash for, price difference is £750 vs £400 body only :oops: :$, I feel like getting my sure shot supreme and a roll of film out lol.
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You want to move from the Z6 because of its AF. So why keep looking at the Z6ii? With the latest FW on your Z6 it’s just as good as the Z6ii. If it’s because you want to stick with Nikon then just keep the Z6 until the Z6iii comes out next year. Moving from Z6 to Z6ii is a waste of money.
 
Hi Pete, yes I like Nikon, im used to the menu system and such, but I was trying to be hopeful that the Zii was a lot better, the new Z will be out when? spring , summer, who knows and the cost I bet £3k or just over.
But your point is taken.
Mark
 
Yeah we have no idea when there will be a Ziii update cycle, but I'd say it has to be next year based on the competition as Nikon are now well behind everyone on a number of key factors, af being a really significant one. I don't blame you wanting to stick with Nikon, I've tried the competition other than Sony and always end up sticking with Nikon, but right now unless you can stand the cost of a Z9, there is no other Nikon mirrorless that competes with Sony, Canon, or Fuji. Although personally I didn't like the Canon R5 files so that prevented me from switching a while back.

The Z6ii really isn't an upgrade form the Z6 though, unless you need the dual card slots and a minor increase in FPS, but it'll miss AF more at the higher FPS so that's not really useful. The sweet spot right now for Nikon full frame is the Z6 and invest in the glass in the hope they sort out a competitive Z6iii soon. Or switch. Just my opinion but I've used a Canon R5 & the Fuji X-H2s recently and both of those woudl be my go to if I was switching. In fact I was very close to switching to Fuji after using the X-h2s
 
Just get a Sony.

Advantages have been stated above including the bodies not being particularly big, there's a massive range of lenses available including state of the art lenses which are very likely the best in class and cheaper smaller f1.8's and many third party options too. In fact the range of lenses available must be one of the biggest plus points.
 
PeteStewardson said:
Yeah we have no idea when there will be a Ziii update cycle, but I'd say it has to be next year based on the competition as Nikon are now well behind everyone on a number of key factors, af being a really significant one. I don't blame you wanting to stick with Nikon, I've tried the competition other than Sony and always end up sticking with Nikon, but right now unless you can stand the cost of a Z9, there is no other Nikon mirrorless that competes with Sony, Canon, or Fuji. Although personally I didn't like the Canon R5 files so that prevented me from switching a while back.

The Z6ii really isn't an upgrade form the Z6 though, unless you need the dual card slots and a minor increase in FPS, but it'll miss AF more at the higher FPS so that's not really useful. The sweet spot right now for Nikon full frame is the Z6 and invest in the glass in the hope they sort out a competitive Z6iii soon. Or switch. Just my opinion but I've used a Canon R5 & the Fuji X-H2s recently and both of those woudl be my go to if I was switching. In fact I was very close to switching to Fuji after using the X-h2s
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The problem with Canon is the lack of, and expense of native lenses.
 
I shoot Canon DSLR at work - 5DSR - 5D MK IV.

A friend of mine purchased a Sony A7R II and i was blown away by the focus abilities of it , any camera in the last five years where eye AF perform superbly.

From the back of using my friends camera i went out and purchased a Sony A7 RIII and a A7 III and love shooting on them, however as stated above they don't get much use due to work supplying all my kit - the lens choice for Sony is outstanding also, even third party, i have the sigma art 105 and it is an absolute pleasure to use, albeit a bit heavy, id class it as one the best lens available, the lack of mirrorless specific lenses at the time of my purchase also led me to the Sony's.
 
woof woof said:
Yup.

Unlike snerkler I don't think it particularly lacks character.
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I’ve actually seen some photos from Julia Trotti recently that were taken with the 55mm f1.8 and they rendered really rather nicely so I may have to change my opinion if I keep seeing shots like that ;)
 
snerkler said:
I’ve actually seen some photos from Julia Trotti recently that were taken with the 55mm f1.8 and they rendered really rather nicely so I may have to change my opinion if I keep seeing shots like that ;)
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I don't tend to shoot wide open too often but I do think that the 55mm f1.8 isn't bad but from memory it does give a noticeable cats eye effect and you can get onion rings. These things wont affect every picture. The relatively high sharpness and contrast across the frame with little fall off may lead to some thinking this lens is a bit clinical maybe but I'd rather use the word transparent as if used to its strengths it doesn't tend to impose its own limitations on a picture as some old film era lenses with messy bokeh or rapid fall off in performance away from the central area might.
 
sjwphoto said:
I shoot Canon DSLR at work - 5DSR - 5D MK IV.

A friend of mine purchased a Sony A7R II and i was blown away by the focus abilities of it , any camera in the last five years where eye AF perform superbly.

From the back of using my friends camera i went out and purchased a Sony A7 RIII and a A7 III and love shooting on them, however as stated above they don't get much use due to work supplying all my kit - the lens choice for Sony is outstanding also, even third party, i have the sigma art 105 and it is an absolute pleasure to use, albeit a bit heavy, id class it as one the best lens available, the lack of mirrorless specific lenses at the time of my purchase also led me to the Sony's.
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Another absolute gem is the Sigma 40mm f/1.4, price has been slashed to around £600 recently, quite heavy at 1100gms but it produces stunning images
 
Hi all, so I went and had a look today, turns out the young girl gave me the wrong trade in price and once given the correct one it was far too much to do the deal considering I would be changing all my stuff. But I had a look and a feel of the a7iv and I didn't like the feel, a bit smaller and tighter to the lens with a smaller rear screen, that I could live with but the view finder seemed smaller and the eye focus didn't seem any better than the Z6 inthe shop, the Z6 feels much better in build quality but I was there and thought b****r it and walked out with a Z6ii which was nearly half the price.
I know, I know, its virtually the same but I can always change next year, any way lets see how this goes.
 
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