The 'War on Facebook'

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Cartus

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There are suggestions in the media today that Facebook had some knowledge of communication between one of Lee Rigby's killers and an associate. Lee Rigby's stepfather is quoted as saying:
"Facebook failed us all when they failed to alert the authorities. They should hang their heads in shame."

Do Facebook or other social networks (such as this one perhaps) have a responsibility to alert the authorities if the feel there is evidence of terrorism, or is the thin end of the wedge where all online activity will be monitored and we are constantly spied upon?
 
I did hear this but wonder how it is possible to monitor billions of communications to find anything meaningful. They certainly have no responsibility unless they knew something obvious and decided not to report it.


Steve.
 
I heard they did know but didn't tell the authorities. They guy had his account closed by them because of what he posted, so I heard.

We freely give companies like facebookninfo about ourselves all the time. The least they can do is report anything that might be a serious risk to national security.
 
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Steve Smith said:
I did hear this but wonder how it is possible to monitor billions of communications to find anything meaningful. They certainly have no responsibility unless they knew something obvious and decided not to report it.


Steve.
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The BBC site states: "The company's automated systems had closed five of Adebowale's accounts because they discussed terrorism, but had not informed the US or UK authorities". This tells us two things, 1) They probably knew something was afoot already, and 2) there are systems in place already, presumably key words and phrases used are flagged up.

It seems that MI5 made many mistakes and FB are being scapegoated but I still think we're moving towards a situation where social media will be held accountable.
 
Raptor Mike said:
I heard they did know but didn't tell the authorities. They guy had his account closed by them because of what he posted, so I heard.

We freely give companies like facebookninfo about ourselves all the time. The least they can do is report anything that might be a serious risk to national security.
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How would they necessarily know though?
 
It seems the security services are confusing Facebook with a website. A better comparison would be "the internet".

36 million users in the UK alone - I got bored trying to find how many status updates there are per day. I'm guessing a lot.
 
Cartus said:
The BBC site states: "The company's automated systems had closed five of Adebowale's accounts because they discussed terrorism, but had not informed the US or UK authorities". This tells us two things, 1) They probably knew something was afoot already, and 2) there are systems in place already, presumably key words and phrases used are flagged up.

It seems that MI5 made many mistakes and FB are being scapegoated but I still think we're moving towards a situation where social media will be held accountable.
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Yes, 5 accounts closed down when the automated filters detected keywords/phrases. His other six accounts were left open. Kenyan police informed UK security services that they had arrested Adebowale when he tried to join a terrorists organisation and yet surveillance of him was terminated (allegedly). We'll never get the truth because so much happens in secret on such matters.
My suspicion is that an internet organisation (Facebook) is being targetted to help support the gov.'s drive to monitor all our internet activity.

Are we really expected to believe that the intelligence services were not already monitoring Adebowale's Facebook activities when he had already come to their attention on another four occasions because of his extremists activities.
 
arclight said:
We'll never get the truth because so much happens in secret on such matters.
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this.

My suspicion is that an internet organisation (Facebook) is being targetted to help support the gov.'s drive to monitor all our internet activity.
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this.

Are we really expected to believe that the intelligence services were not already monitoring Adebowale's Facebook activities when he had already come to their attention on another four occasions because of his extremists activities.
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and this.
 
I listened on Radio 4 last night to comments made by ISPA.

It would be impossible to monitor all adverse comments and to even try would require the employment of thousands od mods.

Also he pointed out that Putin has had bad press recently and would it then be acceptable for any/all derogatory comments to be deleted.

I have to admit that I would probably have had the police knocking at my door for my facetious comment of "Shoot it in the face" when on Japanese Knotweed Thread.

I hate twitface and Booker with a vengeance - whoops another knock anticipated
 
If the crying of the security agencies is to be believed, along with the information Snowden leaked (none of which has ever been denied) then
GCHQ et al. were ABSOLUTELY aware of what this guy was saying on Facebook and the blame for not acting resides solely on them.

On the other hand, if they *didn't* know about this guy, then it just proves that the billions of dollars disappearing into state-run electronic surveillance programs is a total waste of time.
 
Blaming Facebook is similar to blaming BT for people having dodgy telephone conversations. There's only so much they can be expected to do.
 
Another thing - if Facebook are to be blamed for missing Adebowale's posts then who would be blamed if his communications had been sent by text, voicemail, landline, mobile phone, PMR etc. What we are being fed here is that the comms provider should be monitoring and reporting the content of the communications.
 
mid_gen said:
If the crying of the security agencies is to be believed, along with the information Snowden leaked (none of which has ever been denied) then
GCHQ et al. were ABSOLUTELY aware of what this guy was saying on Facebook and the blame for not acting resides solely on them.

On the other hand, if they *didn't* know about this guy, then it just proves that the billions of dollars disappearing into state-run electronic surveillance programs is a total waste of time.
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They did know about him and any blame for what happened could be directed at MI5 but the issue of FB's possible culpability appears to have come from the family of the victim. It's interesting how MI5 avoid criticism.
 
If theses a failing it's not just at the Security Service's door, it's the Secret Intelligence Service and GCHQ as well, each had a part to play as his activities were across all 3's remits.

But Faceache has also got a responsibility in this as well. I accept that it's software more than a person that probably closed the accounts, but they still should have flagged it. They have as much responsibility as everyone else does to prevent terrorism.
Yes, the point could be made about the amount of time/manpower needed, but the same applies to the intelligence services all of which are far smaller than some would have you believe.
 
Run, Hide Tell Another version of the Protect and Survive ilk.

Please folks we have an election coming up in May - let's scare Jo public into voting for more restrictions.

How can 'we' have prevented 4 or 5 terrorism attacks? Surely it must have been 4 or it must have been 5 unless they are counting near miss suicidal pigeons?
 
ChasG said:
Run, Hide Tell Another version of the Protect and Survive ilk.

Please folks we have an election coming up in May - let's scare Jo public into voting for more restrictions.

How can 'we' have prevented 4 or 5 terrorism attacks? Surely it must have been 4 or it must have been 5 unless they are counting near miss suicidal pigeons?
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"IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

-- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

-- Joseph Goebbels
 
how can 'we' have prevented 4 or 5 terrorism attacks?
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Simple really. Was the first London bombing 'a' terrorist attack, or 4?

Is something planned but prevented 1 target, 2 or 3? Sometimes you don't know with sufficient certainty to be able to say it was one thing or more. Sometimes attacks are prevented, but there's not enough information to nick anyone over it. That happened a lot with the IRA, so you have no idea how much more was planned.

Run, Hide Tell
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As opposed to leave it and hope it goes away? It's not.
 
Sorry it does not seem so simple to me. If they have planned 10 attacks and these have been prevented then the figure is 10 not 9 to 12 or whatever figure they feel like.

I grow increasingly concerned that the average citizens personal freedom is being increasingly eroded by spurious and, quite frankly, self serving messages.

Returning the the OP what could the ISPA have actually done?

Using the keyword scenario the BBC web feed would have been closed after they reported on this case
 
Our next prospective conservative party leader wants to make a name for herself, political spin wins the day.
The Home Secretary is ultimately responsible for the actions and failures of the police and (I think) of M15, so let's shift as much blame as possible on to someone else - someone who is beyond my control or responsibility...
We don't know what real people at Facebook did or didn't know or did or didn't do, and we never will.
Maybe they reported it to their own security services, who may or may not have passed it on to our security services, or to their equivalent in Kenya.

But at the end of the day, security is the business of the government of each individual country, not of a commercial organisation based in a foreign country. That's why we have these security agencies.
 
This has all been blown out of proportion - facebook is like a "virtual pub" - does this mean a pub landlord has a duty to listen into as many conversations as possible so he can alert the authorities if he hears anything suspect?
 
boliston said:
This has all been blown out of proportion - facebook is like a "virtual pub" - does this mean a pub landlord has a duty to listen into as many conversations as possible so he can alert the authorities if he hears anything suspect?
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That is the way that the ridiculous accusations against Facebook are going. How long before someone comes up with the idea of reading our surface mail.
 
arclight said:
. How long before someone comes up with the idea of reading our surface mail.
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Have you never received a letter that had been opened ;)
I know I have.
 
Cobra said:
Have you never received a letter that had been opened ;)
I know I have.
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Yes, and sometimes had them opened then re-enveloped by RM with an apology. I always put it down to tea leaves looking for something of value at work.
 
Cobra said:
Have you never received a letter that had been opened ;)
I know I have.
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Which brings us nicely onto this seasonal joke:

A Post Office worker at the main sorting office finds an unstamped, poorly hand-written envelope addressed to God. He opens it and discovers it is from an elderly lady

"Dear God
I am sorry to bother you at this time of year and normally I wouldnt trouble you. But this morning I have had my weekly pension stolen and lost £100. I was going to use this to arrange a small christmas dinner for two of my friends. I now find I cannot, and face the prospect of a lonely and cold festive season.
Thankyou for anything you can do to help.

Ethel"

The kind-hearted post office worker organizes a collection amongst the other postal workers, who dig deep and manage to come up with £90. They put it an envelope and send it off.

A week later, the same postal worker recognizes the same handwriting on another envelope. He opens it and reads:

"Dear God,
Thank you so much for the £100. This month would have been so bleak otherwise. Thanks to you, my friends and I enjoyed a lovely meal together.

Ethel

P.S. It was £10 short but that was probably those thieving bastards at the Post Office."
 
arclight said:
Yes, and sometimes had them opened then re-enveloped by RM with an apology. I always put it down to tea leaves looking for something of value at work.
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Years ago I know that people were warned about putting money in "cards"
as was quite a habit, at one time, and they did "apparently get opened.

But letters, makes no sense really.
Now then, where did leave my tin foil hat? :D
 
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