The National

Dangermouse

Dangermouse

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I am not a big gambler, I normally only have a few quid on Leeds each week, (there's money I will never see again) but me and the missus have had a fiver each on the big race at Aintree, I have £5 for Darasso to win and Eileen has £2.50 e/w on Evas's Oskar as she has been looking at this horse for weeks and following it.

Has anyone else had a little flutter, and if so, what on.
 
Had no luck on the Irish national couple weeks back, I had Panda Boy to win but he came in 6th [shoulda done it e/w]

Looking over today's at Aintree, my picks would be Le Milos and maybe a small e/w on Gabby's Cross
 
Cagey75 said:
Had no luck on the Irish national couple weeks back, I had Panda Boy to win but he came in 6th [shoulda done it e/w]

Looking over today's at Aintree, my picks would be Le Milos and maybe a small e/w on Gabby's Cross
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I don't know enough to follow the sport, its probably the only race we watch, same as millions others, it was just "pick one" and that's what I picked :) now I shall pray all horses get round safely
 
OMG now the fences have people inside demonstrating, please god let one be left in a fence when the race starts, and BBC news please show this idiots underpants when they find it, why though, why are these fools trying to disrupt things
 
Well its a national institute, this is the UK race, the worlds greatest race......................race on, THE BELL
 
No luck here :/

As for those cabages trying to put off the race ... really does make you wonder what the hell they imagine they are 'protecting'?? These pedigree horses get treated better than many humans! lol, they're pampered around the clock, they only race a few times per year
 
Yay - Mrs Fivers annual £1 ew bet came in first. A whole £11 to come.

I promise it won't change our lives, they will still carry on as normal etc. etc.

(As is traditional, my £1 ew didn't finish)
 
Cagey75 said:
No luck here :/

As for those cabages trying to put off the race ... really does make you wonder what the hell they imagine they are 'protecting'?? These pedigree horses get treated better than many humans! lol, they're pampered around the clock, they only race a few times per year
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BUT, what percentage of Grand National runners end up dead because of the race? Imagine the outcry if that percentage of London Marathon runners needed to be put down - and they have a choice in the matter (as to whether or not to start the race).
 
Nod said:
BUT, what percentage of Grand National runners end up dead because of the race? Imagine the outcry if that percentage of London Marathon runners needed to be put down - and they have a choice in the matter (as to whether or not to start the race).
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The same horse could have died jumping during training tbh - Horse injuries are very different to human, if a horse breaks it's neck there's no cast or operation that's going to fix it. These horses are bred and trained to jump ... sadly there will be casualties in any sport. But I would guarantee those horse had about the best life possible leading up to that fatal incident. Most of these horses wouldn't even have lived if not bred for racing.

Going by numbers alone it's a very small percentage thankfully.
 
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I owned a horse that was bred for racing, it was 6 years old when I got it. Nanosecond, beautiful Kentucky-bred ginger ninja, with Breeders Cup eligibility certificate. However he wasn't fast enough as a 3 year old on the flat - one win, 2 seconds, a third and a number of also rans. So he was put to hurdles, where he threw the jockey a couple of times, no places; so he was put to steeplechase where he threw his jockey on every outing. He failed because he hated weights heavier than 7st on his back, but it took me, an amateur owner, to spot that pattern in his race form. He was passed through several trainers who probably treated him well enough, but failed to understand the horse, so he ended up sold to a woman for showjumping who was also thrown a few times and then he was just left in the field unridden for 6 months. Sadly I had to pass him back to the dealers as I was too heavy by far and my wife couldn't handle his energy.

My point is that racehorses may be treated well in stables but they are just used to make money, and when that fails, they are regarded as expensive indulgences and got rid of unceremoniously. Many a racehorse has been shot for an injury that isn't life threatening, but makes them worthless to a stud or trainer. Many a horse has been driven over fences that are way too high, or races that are too long, in the HOPE that they fall and can be shot so that insurance pays out. I know this for fact, from an erstwhile pro jockey friend and having seen it done myself.

So I have lately become set against national hunt racing and Aintree festival in particular. 3 horses died this week at Aintree. Just so that a bunch of people could make some money.
 
Cagey75 said:
No luck here :/

As for those cabages trying to put off the race ... really does make you wonder what the hell they imagine they are 'protecting'?? These pedigree horses get treated better than many humans! lol, they're pampered around the clock, they only race a few times per year
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Pampered yes, and beautifully groomed (not that they care about that) BUT horses are herd animals that need company, but racehorses are kept in isolation to prevent injury from other horses, so have miserable lives.

Their owners adore them when they're successful, but get rid of them as soon as the success ends. A tiny number are put into good retirement homes, paid for by the racing industry for PR reasons but the vast majority are just discarded.
 
If you are set against British tradition like the Grand National Lindsay, then I will no no longer pay (donations) for TP as I have done for years, I will still come here as I have always done, like I will carry on with British tradition, it really wont make any difference to you, but it will now make a difference to me.
 
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Here are a few of our fine British traditions:
Cock fighting
Badger baiting
Hunting with hounds
Child abuse by fine institutions such as churches
Racism
Corruption in politics
Religious persecution
slavery
Horse racing
Discrimination on the grounds of gender and/or sexual orientation

And of course there are many more. Some are now illegal, others are out of favour, none should continue just because of tradition.
 
My God.

The Grand National and then we're onto dead horses, child abuse and racism.

Just another joyous day on the forum.

Can't we just just let people enjoy a thread for once and keep the rants in threads dedicated to it.
 
Dangermouse said:
If you are set against British tradition like the Grand National Lindsay, then I will no no longer pay (donations) for TP as I have done for years, I will still come here as I have always done, like I will carry on with British tradition, it really wont make any difference to you, but it will now make a difference to me.
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Bit of an over-reaction there. I was expressing my disapproval of the way horses are used, I'm not saying anything about British traditions! Steeplechasing is practised in other countries, France and Ireland especially, so it's not am exclusive British tradition. I have no problem with the Grand National as a celebration of horse racing, I just think they need to do a lot more to make it less risky for the horses. Horse racing ownership is a different matter, nothing to do with traditions.
 
Dangermouse said:
If you are set against British tradition...
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I take the view that "tradition" is too often used as an excuse to continue doing something harmful to others. Some traditions are harmless but they seem to be the minority.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I take the view that "tradition" is too often used as an excuse to continue doing something harmful to others. Some traditions are harmless but they seem to be the minority.
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Yes, the likes of Morris Dancing and The Maypole are now hardly heard of or reported/remarked on.
 
lindsay said:
I owned a horse that was bred for racing, it was 6 years old when I got it. Nanosecond, beautiful Kentucky-bred ginger ninja, with Breeders Cup eligibility certificate. However he wasn't fast enough as a 3 year old on the flat - one win, 2 seconds, a third and a number of also rans. So he was put to hurdles, where he threw the jockey a couple of times, no places; so he was put to steeplechase where he threw his jockey on every outing. He failed because he hated weights heavier than 7st on his back, but it took me, an amateur owner, to spot that pattern in his race form. He was passed through several trainers who probably treated him well enough, but failed to understand the horse, so he ended up sold to a woman for showjumping who was also thrown a few times and then he was just left in the field unridden for 6 months. Sadly I had to pass him back to the dealers as I was too heavy by far and my wife couldn't handle his energy.

My point is that racehorses may be treated well in stables but they are just used to make money, and when that fails, they are regarded as expensive indulgences and got rid of unceremoniously. Many a racehorse has been shot for an injury that isn't life threatening, but makes them worthless to a stud or trainer. Many a horse has been driven over fences that are way too high, or races that are too long, in the HOPE that they fall and can be shot so that insurance pays out. I know this for fact, from an erstwhile pro jockey friend and having seen it done myself.

So I have lately become set against national hunt racing and Aintree festival in particular. 3 horses died this week at Aintree. Just so that a bunch of people could make some money.
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This

Having worked with horses, I learned a hell of a lot. My wife owns a former polo pony and does bodywork on horses (as well as humans and dogs) and her knowledge is extensive.

Then there's flat racing. Horses little over a year old are raced when their bodies are still forming. Horses shouldn't be backed until they're at least 4 years old.
 
Dangermouse said:
If you are set against British tradition like the Grand National Lindsay, then I will no no longer pay (donations) for TP as I have done for years, I will still come here as I have always done, like I will carry on with British tradition, it really wont make any difference to you, but it will now make a difference to me.
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I've just found some toys scattered over the floor, I take it they're yours?
 
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lindsay said:
Bit of an over-reaction there. I was expressing my disapproval of the way horses are used, I'm not saying anything about British traditions! Steeplechasing is practised in other countries, France and Ireland especially, so it's not am exclusive British tradition. I have no problem with the Grand National as a celebration of horse racing, I just think they need to do a lot more to make it less risky for the horses. Horse racing ownership is a different matter, nothing to do with traditions.
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Yes appologies, it was a bit over reacted:dummy:I have just picked up the toys.
 
Anyway, disrupting horse races for political reasons is another fine old British tradition, dating back at least 100 years, to Emily Wilding Davison ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Davison )

At least this protest seems to have ended without (serious) violence.
 
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lindsay said:
My point is that racehorses may be treated well in stables but they are just used to make money, and when that fails, they are regarded as expensive indulgences and got rid of unceremoniously. Many a racehorse has been shot for an injury that isn't life threatening, but makes them worthless to a stud or trainer. Many a horse has been driven over fences that are way too high, or races that are too long, in the HOPE that they fall and can be shot so that insurance pays out. I know this for fact, from an erstwhile pro jockey friend and having seen it done myself.
Click to expand...
lindsay said:
So I have lately become set against national hunt racing and Aintree festival in particular. 3 horses died this week at Aintree. Just so that a bunch of people could make some money.
Click to expand...


Two points there,Lindsay.

1. The horses are put down if they can't race anymore. I had a friend who drove vans for the police and when he was offered overtime to do the Cheltenham races he refused. I'll always remember him telling me what you've said and he was told that by someone on the inside,too. They put down a horse for an injury that can be sorted and it may not be able to race again but it can have a good life in pastures but then the insurance wouldn't pay out.

Re the high fences. The fences at Aintree have been lowered over the years but clearly not enough. It's known as a dangerous course. Twice as many horses die at Aintree than at Cheltenham .There have been two days of phone-ins on LBC Radio about the horse that was put down .. Hill Sixteen. Infact, just before I came on here there was another phone-in and I stopped listening after a women rang in saying that's the price paid for a sport a lot of people enjoy...laughing whilst she said it. I don't know how Ian Dale remained courteous but he has to take all views. She wouldn't have had such a benign response from James O'Brien .Three horses were killed at the meeting . Killed ? Yes, they're killed by making them jump fences too high in a field of too many horses. Boris Johnson's sister, Rachael, is a presenter on LBC and yesterday she was hosting a phone-in on this subject and was audibly upset in relating how she was there ( as a guest of whoever) and saw the horse in the parade ring before the race and she was by the first fence and saw it fall right infront of her,she saw the screens go round it. It was only 7 years old. They live up to 25 years and some to 30. The owner is blaming the protesters for 'spooking 'the horses because the start was delayed and they were all lined up at the starting line.

In that phone-in that I've just come away from a caller said that the new law re the use of the whip, introduced in January, is that it's to be confined to six in flat racing and seven re hurdles. The caller watched the racing on Saturday..all of it not just the GN and he saw a jockey use the whip 69 times in one race.

On Saturday in one of the other races. "Dark Raven, a 6-year-old novice, took an horrific fall this afternoon, in the third race on Grand National day at Aintree Racecourse. He looked to have broken both of his back legs as he helplessly tried in vain to get up. Castle Robin, died earlier in the afternoon and the cause remains unknown.This brings the total number of equine deaths to 61 at the three-day meeting since 2000, and over 3,000 in jump racing alone"

Considering the parlous state of household economies it's amazing that £100 million was bet on the Grand National.

July 19 2021 https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/horse-racing-panorama-b946448.html

"Freedom of information requests revealed that 4,000 former racehorses were slaughtered since the beginning of 2019.Most, but not all, were trained in Ireland. The abattoir, Drury and Sons, told Panorama that they “take great care to maintain high welfare conditions”.

Horse deathwatch list 2023.

Race Horse Death Watch

www.horsedeathwatch.com www.horsedeathwatch.com
 
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