The Cenotaph and just who does it commemorate!

[Box Brownie]

There was a party political broadcast a few days back for the London Mayoral election by a fringe party and one of the speakers was stood in Whitehall with the Cenotaph in the bg and he spoke of 'it' representing all the UK war dead and how those British citizens should be remembered by putting the country first because that is what they did.

He neglected (AFAIK) to acknowledge that the Cenotaph is there to recognise all the forces who died fighting for the UK & Commonwealth, ignoring that there were all races, creeds and colours that fought for our freedom. It was not just white UK citizens who died and are commemorated at/by the Cenotaph.

A jingoistic and slanted presentation of history to further his party's political aims?

PS they also showed the Guards memorial, I am not sure whether that one because of the recruitment origins included Commonwealth citizens in it's ranks? But does that matter in the context of the 'message' he presented.

PPS Polish military forces fought from bases in the UK and that in part is why we have such a link to that country, is it not?

 

[Mr Bump]

Was it Britain first or the BNP was it, the right wing racists love those kind of things.

 

[Cobra]

PPS Polish military forces fought from bases in the UK and that in part is why we have such a link to that country, is it not?

They also have their own, at Northolt, on the A40.
In memory of the Polish pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain.

 

[Box Brownie]

Was it Britain first or the BNP was it, the right wing racists love those kind of things.

T'was the first one you mention.

 

[Box Brownie]

They also have their own, at Northolt, on the A40.
In memory of the Polish pilots that fought in the Battle of Britain.

Thanks for the reminder They also got recognised (thinks right movie?) in The Battle of Britain, a very stirring movie.

 

[Cobra]

Thanks for the reminder They also got recognised (thinks right movie?) in The Battle of Britain, a very stirring movie.

Yes a great movie, and they were "referred to"
both in the movie, there was a flying scene where they were told to stop all the bloody jabbering
(They were talking to one another in Polish)
And of course in the end credits.

 

[Mr Bump]

T'was the first one you mention.

yep according to those racists it was only Brittish blood that has any value.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Sad but the racist half-wits will never bother with facts.

There are extra services at the Cenotaph in Whitehall on the Sundays after Rememrance Sunday which add to the earlier parades and include all Commonwealth forces. There are Cenotaphs in India, Singapore Australia.......

The Britain First looneys should visit the First World War sites and cemeteries for a wake up call.

This might help - one of many

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/ypres-salient/memorial-indian-forces.htm

Sad but the knuckleheads won't recognise their freedom to hate and be free to be open about it was assurred by the sacrifice of the forebears of those they hate....

 

[viv1969]

It's dedicated only "To the glorious dead".
No specific service, no specific nationality, and was originally put up as a temporary structure, being part of the London Peace Parade in 1919.

 

[Stumpy]

That's right "Viv1969".

Every time I've paraded past over the years, both in and out of uniform, it's been to honour every one killed, Civil and Military.
Nothing else comes into it except the hope that Politicians will in future be the first and only ones in the front line!
I know. One hope, Bob.

 

[Earley Man]

Sad but the racist half-wits will never bother with facts.

There are extra services at the Cenotaph in Whitehall on the Sundays after Rememrance Sunday which add to the earlier parades and include all Commonwealth forces. There are Cenotaphs in India, Singapore Australia.......

The Britain First looneys should visit the First World War sites and cemeteries for a wake up call.

This might help - one of many

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/ypres-salient/memorial-indian-forces.htm

Sad but the knuckleheads won't recognise their freedom to hate and be free to be open about it was assurred by the sacrifice of the forebears of those they hate....

Between 1968 and 1977 I sailed as an Electrical Officer with P&O in their tanker fleet. The seamen were Pakistani, the cooks and stewards were Goanese Indian and the fitters and pumpmen were Hong Kong Chinese and, with the few exceptions which occurs in all races and creeds, all of them were bloody good at their jobs.

It isn't known by many but even before WWII the proportion of non UK seamen/stewards/stokers etc. was at least one third of the total number of seamen employed in British flag vessels. These men, like their UK counterparts, were not conscripts who had to go to sea, they were volunteers who sailed on these ships knowing that, particularly between June 1940 and June 1943, their chances of survival, particularly in the North Atlantic convoys, wasn't that great. If you want to read more about their history go to lascars.co.uk It hasn't been updated since 2003 and appears to have been the work of one individual but is well worth a read and should be made compulsory reading for any member of the BNP.

The sacrifice of all those who sailed in the Merchant Navy in both WWI and WWII, and without whom this country would not have survived, has now been almost entirely forgotten. At the memorial services they don't march under colourful banners wearing smart uniforms but, when they were allowed to by the British Legion, brought up the rear in civilian clothes. I have said when they were allowed to as last year the head of the British Legion decreed that the MN were no longer going to be allowed to march as a separate contingent; an action which I considered to be so appalling that I will no longer support them. It denies recognition to a group of men, some of whom died as recently as the Falklands War, to get the troops and their supplies to when they were needed and as so many times the men of the Merchant Navy sailed their ships into danger and have since been forgotten

From time to time there are discussions about what to put on the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square, how about a monument to the men of the Merchant Navy without whom the Second World War would have been lost within six months and wouldn't have been fought anyway as we would have lost the first one.

 

[Box Brownie]

And all the more reprehensible that the party in question used it so to speak to wrap the Union Jack around his shoulders and what he represents!

 

[jakeblu]

From time to time there are discussions about what to put on the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square, how about a monument to the men of the Merchant Navy without whom the Second World War would have been lost within six months and wouldn't have been fought anyway as we would have lost the first one.

Excellent post and a great idea about the plinth, the merchant seaman are a forgotten casualty of the war and a national monument would be fitting. I remember as a boy reading about the Q-Ships and being amazed at the bravery of normal seamen who helped to keep this country afloat at a very difficult time

 

[Alastair]

As far as I'm aware the Cenotaph represents "The Glorious Dead" of the UK and Commonwealth regardless of military status, gender or nationality. Initially for the '14-18 conflict I believe it was modified to cover all conflicts at home and abroad.

Which is why I'm always puzzled when yet another niche group memorial is revealed (e.g. the Dan Dare inspired piece of cartoon nonsense to the Battle Of Britain on the Embankment), as this would seem to imply that any group needing it's own memorial is neither glorious nor dead. The Cenotaph is a dignified memorial to all, it should have been enough.

 

[Cobra]

how about a monument to the men of the Merchant Navy without whom the Second World War would have been lost within six months and wouldn't have been fought anyway as we would have lost the first one.

There was an interesting programme on the radio several months ago, discussing the importance of the Merchant Navy during WWII.
I've forgotten most of it now, so the details are a bit sketchy in my mind.
But it seems the air marshal (?) convinced Churchill that the war would be won in the skies not the sea's.
Despite the Admirals (?) best efforts, and and of course those of the Merchant Navy,
Churchill believed him, and so more money and "Importance" was given to the air force.

 

[viv1969]

As far as I'm aware the Cenotaph represents "The Glorious Dead" of the UK and Commonwealth regardless of military status, gender or nationality. Initially for the '14-18 conflict I believe it was modified to cover all conflicts at home and abroad.

Which is why I'm always puzzled when yet another niche group memorial is revealed (e.g. the Dan Dare inspired piece of cartoon nonsense to the Battle Of Britain on the Embankment), as this would seem to imply that any group needing it's own memorial is neither glorious nor dead. The Cenotaph is a dignified memorial to all, it should have been enough.

See post 9