Talk to me about 5g

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So I remember the adverts, 'blazing fast 5g', 'new connectivity experience' and the like.
Right I thought, I'll get some of that and upgrade to the next available iPhone that will work on 5g ... picked up a well priced brand new iPhone 12 to use with my Smarty SIM (3 piggyback).
So I see the 5g symbol (sometimes!) but what's changed? ... well very little it seems, not 'blazing fast' and certainly still get the spinning circle at times!
One thing is for sure ... I'm not going to try landing a plane at Stansted with my phone!
Have I been conned again?
Isn't 5g all it was touted to be?
Or is it just me or my provider?
 
It depends where you are, how far from the cell tower you are and whether you're inside or outside. I've seen blazing fast 5G speeds, approaching 200Mbps, but also been on 5G and got 10 Mbps.
 
RichardC27 said:
It depends where you are, how far from the cell tower you are and whether you're inside or outside. I've seen blazing fast 5G speeds, approaching 200Mbps, but also been on 5G and got 10 Mbps.
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Yes, I've only tried outside in areas where 3 show 5g available in and out.
 
5G does not have the range in built up areas, it relies less on the big towers you see, and more on smaller cells scattered around, probably unnoticed by most people.

It will be fast in most places. One day :)
 
SFTPhotography said:
I don't think this is a conspiracy theory - I'll avoid 5g like the way I avoided covid 19 vaccines...

The radiation from 5g is a worry, was never bothered re WiFi, 4g, 3g etc
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I don't think you will be able to avoid it.
Eventually there will be dozens down any high st, they won't look like anything instantly recognisable, can be placed inside signs, on walls like an alarm box, even in street lights eventually.

Chainmail suit and foil hat :)

Of course you can avoid it by not going anywhere.
 
I'm still using 4G with my iPhone X, most of the time it's adequate and the battery life is good. I will hold off upgrading until I see how 5G copes in area's where 4G can be slow. I was in Lincoln last weekend trying to upload 6 jpg files no larger than 10MB each, I got the most important away very slowly, then no more. Back at my Airbnb using my phones hotspot the other 4 uploaded fast as expected. Time will tell if 5G will be as fast as predicted, if so I'll likely upgrade.
 
As above, I'm still on my iPhone X with a 3 sim in - but on 4G, I only get around 20mb.. so I'm not sure exactly whats happened, as I'm sure back in the day 4G was supposed to be around 80mb... and 3G before it around 30mb... so they've definitely lowered the speed I feel.
 
I recently bought a 5G capable phone, but have yet to find an area with 5G signal. I'd have still bought the phone even if it was 4G only.
 
We still can't even send a text. Unless on wifi calling. :p
 
SFTPhotography said:
I don't think this is a conspiracy theory - I'll avoid 5g like the way I avoided covid 19 vaccines...

The radiation from 5g is a worry, was never bothered re WiFi, 4g, 3g etc
Click to expand...

Well, if you weren't worried by the others, then why should you be worried by 5g? It's fundamentally the same as the others but just a different set of frequencies (in fact re-using frequencies used by other previous technologies depending upon where you live in the world). This is the same fear which has accompanied every roll out of mobile wireless technology, without any corresponding actual increase in health issues. In many respects 5g is safer than older technologies as the handset power does not need to be as high as the cells have smaller footprints and should be closer.
 
tangerine_sedge said:
Well, if you weren't worried by the others, then why should you be worried by 5g? It's fundamentally the same as the others but just a different set of frequencies (in fact re-using frequencies used by other previous technologies depending upon where you live in the world). This is the same fear which has accompanied every roll out of mobile wireless technology, without any corresponding actual increase in health issues. In many respects 5g is safer than older technologies as the handset power does not need to be as high as the cells have smaller footprints and should be closer.
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It's the wavelengths used...
 
I've turned 5g off. It drains the battery constantly hunting.
Never found a real world application that needs more than 4g.
 
SFTPhotography said:
I don't think this is a conspiracy theory - I'll avoid 5g like the way I avoided covid 19 vaccines...

The radiation from 5g is a worry, was never bothered re WiFi, 4g, 3g etc
Click to expand...
The bit you are really worried about the mmwave is not here, the rest is nothing really new. Your WiFi is by far worse in that respect.


As far as speeds go it's s***. Really s***. Good 4g connection appears to be about as fast or slow... The difference starts when you go indoors or even inside a safari tent. 5g only works right by the window but even slower. So phone keeps going back and forth to 4g if one is even available (3 appears to have killed a lot of towers in Birmingham in favour of 5g). So it is very s*** usability wise. If we had 700mhz band maybe that would be better if a little slower.
 
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Peak I got 900M/bs in North London so it is blazingly fast in certain places but i dont notice it elsewhere. Its still a nice to have but not worth paying extra for. Id rather have reliable 4g on the train across country.

It will be all its cracked up to be once the coverage is full the range is smaller so they have to install a lot more masts
 
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Great speeds here in Washington with O2, we have a few masts dotted around and all give good speeds.
 
5g potential speeds are a quantum leap from 4g, whether you achieve them or not is dependent on a number of factors, most significant is that the 5g signal attenuates much more rapidly than the 4g. There's a host of other changes along with the higher frequency that go together to provide the improved service, most notably improved latency that can significantly improve the quality of, say, a video call. This latency improvement is really really important, even if you didn't know about it. The shift from cell towers under 4g to small cells is driven by the signal attenuation characteristic - you can have fast or you can have far, basically. The fear of 5g is fed by ignorance and misinformation, but everyone is entitled to their own views, however wrong they may be,
 
stickytape said:
As above, I'm still on my iPhone X with a 3 sim in - but on 4G, I only get around 20mb.. so I'm not sure exactly whats happened, as I'm sure back in the day 4G was supposed to be around 80mb... and 3G before it around 30mb... so they've definitely lowered the speed I feel.
Click to expand...
Just done a test on 4G indoors as well and I get 120Mb
 
SFTPhotography said:
I don't think this is a conspiracy theory - I'll avoid 5g like the way I avoided covid 19 vaccines...

The radiation from 5g is a worry, was never bothered re WiFi, 4g, 3g etc
Click to expand...
Haven't we gone over this in another thread.
Basically to be afraid of 5G and not WIFI, is well just silly. (Silly being the nicest way I could put it)
 
robj20 said:
Just done a test on 4G indoors as well and I get 120Mb
Click to expand...

The theoretical maximum under 4g is (IIRC) 1gbps, 5g is 20gbps. Thing is, you know how people are fixated on numbers of megapixels in cameras, and how more must be better? Which of course does not necessarily follow. It's the same here.

Let's talk latency (I might have mentioned that was important). Latency is the time a packet of data takes to get from source to target, distance plays some part, but the mode of travel and intervening jumps plays a bigger part. If you are just squirting data down a line (to get "speed") actually it may not make that much difference (http is a stateless protocol - it doesn't care if it arrives or not), In the real world where doing something involves two communication: "here's something, have you got it?" "Yes I've got it, send the next bit" latency really counts. 4g latency is around 75ms, 5g is 5ms.NOt hard to see the difference.
 
OP. Speak to your mobile service provider, as you might need a 5G specific SIM and service plan.

My new Samsung could 'see' 5G on O2, but I needed both a new SIM and service plan change to take full advantage of it.
 
you bought an apple iphone
you were allready conned
 
Nikon ? Canon ? ;) There's as much benefit entering into that phone discussion.

Good news is, that underneath all the Apple hype and partisanship are solid, top performing hardware in all their product range. I say that as someone who has not and would not buy into their ecosystem, but then I have sold my soul to Mr Google. (75p, since you ask, and i think I got the better of the deal)
 
Ham said:
Nikon ? Canon ? ;) There's as much benefit entering into that phone discussion.
Click to expand...
That won't stop some.

...but most people will just get on and use what they have... :naughty:

Woman on phone Exeter P1011737.JPG
 
gramps said:
So I remember the adverts, 'blazing fast 5g', 'new connectivity experience' and the like.
Right I thought, I'll get some of that and upgrade to the next available iPhone that will work on 5g ... picked up a well priced brand new iPhone 12 to use with my Smarty SIM (3 piggyback).
So I see the 5g symbol (sometimes!) but what's changed? ... well very little it seems, not 'blazing fast' and certainly still get the spinning circle at times!
One thing is for sure ... I'm not going to try landing a plane at Stansted with my phone!
Have I been conned again?
Isn't 5g all it was touted to be?
Or is it just me or my provider?
Click to expand...

It‘s your provider.
 
SFTPhotography said:
If the thread was in the out of focus area I wouldn't have seen it.

I don't sit too close to my WiFi router or booster keeping a respectable distance from it.
Click to expand...

From the International Atomic Energy Authority:

We are exposed to ionizing radiation from natural sources in two ways:

  • We are surrounded by naturally-occurring radioactive elements in the soil and stones, and are bathed with cosmic rays entering the earth's atmosphere from outer space.
  • We receive internal exposure from radioactive elements which we take into our bodies through food and water, and through the air we breathe. In addition, we have radioactive elements (Potassium 40, Carbon 14, Radium 226) in our blood or bones.
Additionally, we are exposed to varying amounts of radiation from sources such as dental and other medical X-rays, industrial uses of nuclear techniques and other consumer products such as luminized wrist watches, ionization smoke detectors, etc. We are also exposed to radiation from radioactive elements contained in fallout from nuclear explosives testing, and routine normal discharges from nuclear and coal power stations.


Plus -- from Timeblimp.com....

The number of solar neutrinos that reach us on the earth is measured by something called “flux”, which is how science geeks measure the rate of flow of material. The solar neutrino flux for us on Earth is about 65 billion neutrinos, passing through just one square centimeter of area on earth, every second.

I think the odd phone or mast or wifi router output probably pales into insignificance.
 
gramps said:
Could you enlarge please?
Click to expand...

When I worked for O2 we’d get a lot of new customers moving to us from 3, even though we were more expensive. The reason? People were fed up with slow network speeds.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
When I worked for O2 we’d get a lot of new customers moving to us from 3, even though we were more expensive. The reason? People were fed up with slow network speeds.
Click to expand...
Ok thank you. :)
 
SFTPhotography said:
I don't sit too close to my WiFi router or booster keeping a respectable distance from it.
Click to expand...
It is not the router that gives you the most of the exposure, and least in most sensible installations. It is all about distance and thus the things that are much closer to you with antenna like your phone or laptop become of concern. Once they are away and on the boundaries of wifi router range, they really crank up their power. That's the absolute basics of their operation mode. So the least you want to make sure is you either have as close to full bars as possible (well obviously you don't want to be sitting right over the router either), or limit the thing altogether and ideally wire the cables. This gives best possible speed anyway which is the only way to go if you try to work with NAS devices.
 
OK folks, have some perspective, free of charge.

This is all about the electromagnetic spectrum, here's what that looks like

Electromagnetic-spectrum-wavelengths-1024x584.jpeg

There's that useful bit in the middle called the visible spectrum, nobody has any issues with that, rather useful for taking photographs. Most of us are aware that exposure to ultra violet and higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) is detrimental, and we tend to avoid it.

However, 5g is in the 1mm - 10 mm wavelength, that's in the "radar" space on the diagram, so covers all speed cameras and stuff like that, below infrared, and the diagram is not linear. I'm sure that many people think that 5g is somehow extra aggressive, like x-rays, and is blazing new technology. Truth is, it isn't anything of the kind, there's no prima facie reason for concern than there is for radio waves.(As it happens there is more genuine causes for consideration with 5g than there is with, say, vaccination but that doesn't make it any more right, and I'm not getting into that)

Let's move on to power. That's where "My ear's getting warm so it must be frying my brains like microwaves" comes in. Of course, WiFi wavelength is pretty much the same as your microwave cooker. But power. A very low setting of your microwave is, say, 90w. The transmit power of your phone is 20mW That's 4.500 lower and the reason why it isn't frying your brains and isn't responsible for heating your ear (that'll be the electronic components). The WiFi hub? That's 100mW for 2.4Ghz, and 200mW for 5Ghz, and as mentioned the signal drops off exponentially with distance. Whichever, it's 1,000 times lower than a setting on your microwave that does next to nothing. And, here's the thing. Communication is two way, so just because your phone has a "good signal" doesn't make for a good connection if the hub can't hear it talking, there's actually good reason why you might turn your hub power down, but that's another story.

Another part of that story was many years ago I bought a new WiFi access point and when I set it up, I told it that I was in Thailand, where regulations allow you to turn it up to 11! (125mw) I was quite disappointed not to get better performance, until I thought about it for a moment and realised why :facepalm:

Basically, it's complicated. You think you know something about from watching a couple of YouTube videos? You really don't.
 
Ham said:
A very low setting of your microwave is, say, 90w.
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A microwave does not have a low setting, it runs at full power, just the duty cycle varies, ie on 10% it is on for 10% of the time period and off for 90%, but during that 10% of the time it is at full power.
Rather like an old fashioned electric hob, it is either full on or off, nothing in between.
 
Sangoma said:
A microwave does not have a low setting, it runs at full power, just the duty cycle varies, ie on 10% it is on for 10% of the time period and off for 90%, but during that 10% of the time it is at full power.
Rather like an old fashioned electric hob, it is either full on or off, nothing in between.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but the overall effect of for raising temperature in the attacked object is similar.
 
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