supermarket car park incident

Lynton

Lynton

awkward customer
Suspended / Banned
Messages
10,606
Name
Lynton (yes really!)
Edit My Images
No
thoughts and comments please.

We were in a supermarket car park today and in the process of wife helping me get out of the car, my car was damaged by a 9 yr old pushing a trolley for her mum............ - off side rear panel dented and scratched.........

Once I was in my (temp) wheelchair, I went politely to explain the incident to the mother whose response was "yeah, i saw it was close, but I am sure she didn't hit it, " then following on by "well it will probably polish out won't it."

I therefore offered her the opportunity to come polish it out and we would go from there if it was unsuccessful at which point she became quite rude and obnoxious... "It's private property so you can't do anything, you can f### off can't you......." etc etc and refused to give any details - but gave me the sob story of how she had 3 kids, a partially sighted mother, disabled father - my response of "so? What's that got to do with your daughter damaging my car" didn't go down well.

So whipped out the iPhone and a few snaps of her by her car, complete with reg no, trolley, damage to my car etc.............


Appreciate that

a) the supermarket cannot do anything - nothign to do with them (other than through their number plate recognition system can prove she was there at the time.)

b) ins co cannot do anything other than me claim on my policy........

c) had a word with a friendly copper and as the girl who caused the damage (albeit accidently) is iunder 10 they cannot do anything.........


How I see it my only option is to

- Obtain vehicle owner details using form v888 from DVLA
- Get 3 estimates for repair
- Send her a recorded solicitors letter asking for repair + costs.......
- Mention taking to small claims court (which will be a pain in the backside for her, as she is not local - but on holiday.)

Any legal bods on here with other suggestions as to what I can do? Not asking for loads of free legal advice, just if this is a viable cause of action...... as at the end of the day, I can prove the vehicle was there, they were there, the damage corresponds exactly to pointy out bits on the trolley, but no independent witness so will be one word against the other if it goes to court. (£85 costs)

Will prob contact legal team via car insurance tomorrow but just canvassing thoughts and opinions..........
 
I know you still need to find out her address etc. But unless someone else corrects me, I think you may be able to claim off her house insurance for such occurances. Then again, as she has obviously alot of bad luck in life, she won't have any house insurance anyway.
Claiming on her house insurance may be worth looking into, don't inform your car insurance company though, even if you don't intend claiming on your policy, once they know of the incident even if not your fault and no claim made, they will still see you as a higher risk come renewal and it will be on insurers database should you intend to change insurance companies when renewing.
 
I think you CAN pursue her. The child was in her control (or not as the case may be) at the time and she was negligent in not taking care to prevent such an incident.

If she has suitable insurance cover then that is up to her to sort. I think your best next step is a solicitor.
 
Problem is (unless its on cctv) is that its your word against hers, and I dont think you will get anywhere. She may have been in car park but no actual evidence that her daughter caused anything.

I know its petty and wrong, but I would have accidentally knocked a trolley back into her car very hard!
 
i know where you are coming from Simon, but as I am over 10, would be opening myself up to criminal damage there..................

I guess a quick chat with a legal eagle tomorrow but it's word against word - maybe the threat of a long trip back to Norfolk for court action could persuade the matter, so to speak.........
 
Sorry, but you can't do anything whatsoever about it! The damage was accidental... If you choose to pursue it, you'll probably end up spending a lot more than it would cost to repair the damage anyway and still get nothing :thinking: This is what fully comp insurance is for! ... You may get lucky though if she decides to write a cheque, although somehow I doubt it..
 
yep fully comp insurance - £150 xs and increased premiums despite protected NCD......

Just annoys me that someone could watch her daughter do that and basically not give a flying ####.

Got to be worth £2.50 and a strongly worded letter..................
 
I get the feeling that you'd be wasting your time, however are you sure it wasn't the mother who was pushing the trolley? ;)
 
Lynton said:
yep fully comp insurance - £150 xs and increased premiums despite protected NCD......

Just annoys me that someone could watch her daughter do that and basically not give a flying ####.

Got to be worth £2.50 and a strongly worded letter..................
Click to expand...

Indeed, worth a go :thumbs: Unfortunately that's people :shake: They seem to think that their precious little gits can do whatever they like and they aren't responsible for them!
 
Don't think you can claim anything against her or the kid mate. Were there any witnesses? It could end up being her word against yours. End of story!
 
Double check with a solicitor but it is my undertanding that the 'vehicles parked at owners risk' signs are worthless and carry no legal weight as by having a free car park the supermarket is inviting you onto their land and as such the signs mean naff all. If this is still the case it may be worth thinking about claiming form the supermarket.

As said it is my understanding (having witnessed a case at a previous employers premises some time ago) but things may have changed in the mean time.
 
having had a knob in a rangerover reverse at speed swipe my old carlton, bash it back half a car length, smash off the bumper.. on CCTV, in a Wicks carpark...

... the CCTV then caught him get out of the rangerover, check his vehical for damage, not even look at mine and then drive off ....

.... And then have the police saying there was nothing they could do...

.... and then having the insurance company want to write the car off and pay me half the value for it, and then double my premiums - I feel for you. Unfortunatally in this instance, there is nothing you can do

a old chap who was a witness said he couldnt believ the arrogance of the chap - his only concern was his rangerover
 
If she'd done it in her car, you'd be fine, but since it was the daughter (and yes she is responsible for the child's actions) then if she doesn't offer to make good, you can't claim against her insurance...

It's a case of: claim on yours and if you still feel that justice needs to be served, call the A-Team...


Here in Germany it's a different matter - when my GF scuffed another car in a car-park whilst avoiding another prat who was about to collide with us, we had to call the police (which is mandatory, even if both parties are present, uninjured and agree to where the fault lies) and then pay them for attending... I had to swipe my debit-card on the machine they carry around for the purpose... 40€...!!! Then we had to pay for the damage to the other car as well!!!

I'm still waiting a year later on the case against the guy who clobbered my Mustang with a shopping-cart (no damage, but the ensuing argument ended with his aged mother breaking her walking stick over my head, so I'm pursuing an assault case against them both...lol)
 
Arkady said:
I'm still waiting a year later on the case against the guy who clobbered my Mustang with a shopping-cart (no damage, but the ensuing argument ended with his aged mother breaking her walking stick over my head, so I'm pursuing an assault case against them both...lol)
Click to expand...

Please tell me there's a video :D

Sorry, it's not really funny, but it does read that way :)

Hope you win!
 
Well, personally I wouldn't pursue. Not that I have kids, but sometimes they do have accidents. You park in supermarket car parks and there's always a risk of getting a scratch.

Not worth the hassle on your part, or the grief on her part. Touch it up and get on with your life.
 
mattyh said:
Please tell me there's a video :D

Sorry, it's not really funny, but it does read that way :)

Hope you win!
Click to expand...

I'd be laughing too if there was: the mother's initial statement to the police (who I called) had me snatching her stick and breaking it across my knee.
She must be about 65 years old - what else do you do when a little old lady wails on you with a walking stick...? You have to soak it up - you can't hit any woman, let alone little old Nazi grannies...:shrug:

Luckily I found a witness who corroborated my version (and also contadicted her witnesses statements - people who knew her and who'd arrived after the incident had finished).

I was initially arrested for assaulting her and her son as all present backed up her version of events, even though I'd called the police to make the complaint against them...:eek:

The case against me was dropped by the Staatsanwalt (German CPS) after her witnesses changed their statements after they realised that my witness was a member of the Town Council: we're now waiting for my counter-suit against them to be heard.



Back on-topic...Lynton: A-Team...give me a call - you have the VRN, yes?
 
I had a similar sort of case where my daughter ran into the side of a car coming out of a car park, where they started claiming for all sort of damage to their car, in the end I handed it over to our household insurance company and they dealt with it on our household policy!


In other words it may still be worth pursuing the family as they may have cover on another policy.
 
In my view the girl's age is immaterial. She was under the control of her Mother and age is only relevant to criminal responsibility.

The fact it was on private ground does not take away the negligence by both Mother and the girl.

Ask the supermarket for a copy of the CCTV or at least a letter stating they have reviewed the tape and concur with your version of events.

Write to the Mother holding her responsible. If she has household insurance, the Personal Liability section will cover it. However, it seems unlikely she will do anything. You can still take it to court and get a judgement against her.

As has been said by many, it is unlikey you will get anywhere, but I believe the Mother should be held accountable.

Ken
 
You can claim it off the mother's home contents insurance which should come with public liability insurance covering everyone in the household.

If they don't have insurance, the small claims court is for sorting out those matters.

Only problem is if she denies it. With no witnesses it can be difficult... :'(

If the store has CCTV you have a legal right to have copies of anything recorded with you in it, or at least that's what I was told by the chief security officer when I worked at Safeway. Send them a letter with the time and date and ask/demand copies.

P.S. No, accessing CCTV footage is a bit vague: http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/docume...iled_specialist_guides/ico_cctvfinal_2301.pdf

Probably need the court to ask for it
 
Last edited:
mid_gen said:
Well, personally I wouldn't pursue. Not that I have kids, but sometimes they do have accidents. You park in supermarket car parks and there's always a risk of getting a scratch.

Not worth the hassle on your part, or the grief on her part. Touch it up and get on with your life.
Click to expand...

most reasonable people have the common decency to rectify these accidents though :shrug:
 
mid_gen said:
Well, personally I wouldn't pursue. Not that I have kids, but sometimes they do have accidents. You park in supermarket car parks and there's always a risk of getting a scratch.

Not worth the hassle on your part, or the grief on her part. Touch it up and get on with your life.
Click to expand...


mid-gen - i have absolutely no problem that it was an accident and therefore completely unintended.

however, damage was caused to my property, and what irks me is the mother's attitude of "well it's tough isn't it."
 
Lynton said:
yep fully comp insurance - £150 xs and increased premiums despite protected NCD......

Just annoys me that someone could watch her daughter do that and basically not give a flying ####.

Got to be worth £2.50 and a strongly worded letter..................
Click to expand...

I know what you mean there. in the last 12 months someone drove into my car whilst it was parked in a carpark.
Someone witnessed it and waited to give me details. Claimed off the other party for repairs.

Also had someone rear end me which was not my fault either.

Result for me even with protected NCD is New premium doubles as actuarial statistics show I am more likely to have an accident, even when not my fault.

Pah:bang:
 
Time to get the polish out, that should save any more time-wasting :nuts:
 
Lynton said:
mid-gen - i have absolutely no problem that it was an accident and therefore completely unintended.

however, damage was caused to my property, and what irks me is the mother's attitude of "well it's tough isn't it."
Click to expand...

Well, yes, some people are just inconsiderate/rude/obnoxious, I just wouldn't bother pursuing it personally, a lot of hassle for both parties. Not that I condone what they did, but assuming we're talking your usual shopping trolley ding that all cars that spend time in a supermarket car park get, I wouldn't be bothered. Each to their own.
 
You may be able to claim against her if you have CCTV evidence, you will struggle to get this without a solicitor though as they will have to request it from the store security managment team and they have to authorise it aswell. This can take a long time to do.
I currently work for a company that see this sort of thing happen on a regular occasion and each time the application for request of CCTV has been thrown out due to how petty the crime is. Had some one drove across the car park and rammed you or the car then they will be able to hand it over.
Might be easier getting blood from a stone rather than claiming damages from 10 year old with a trolley.
 
It'll be worth the £2.50 fee from DVLA though so you can get the details and write them a letter. Once they realise you know where they live etc you might get an apology and an offer of something.

How bad is the damage?
 
Mikesphotaes said:
Time to get the polish out, that should save any more time-wasting :nuts:
Click to expand...

If you can advise how polish can remove a dent i'm all ears -------- however given the liberal fluffy "polish it and get over it" type of response, feel free to come and polish it out for me - i'd be interested to see how any amount of t cut / polish can restore colour to bare metal...........:shrug: however - you seem experienced in such matters, so again, feel free to come and demonstrate your prowess in removing such damage. In return i will supply endless tea/coffee / chocolate hobnobs.


mid-gen - yep each to their own....................

If it was a company car / a a lease car i probably wouldn't give a toss. The fact that I paid my hard earned saved cash for the car, does not in my opinion make it right for someone to damage it albeit accidently and the (ir)responsible adult to take the stance that she did. We of course, will have to agree to disagree on that matter..........


Byker - a dent (not huge but very noticable on a black car) and a column of scratched about 1 cm long about 1 ft high at irregular intervals, down to the base metal............ we are talking paint job, not a t cut and polish...........

In the grand scheme of damage to a car, it's at the cosmetic end, but wasn't there beforehand..........

maybe I am being a bit anal about it, maybe I was brought up in a previous generation whereby you were accountable for your actions, not as society seems nowadays as in "oh well, tough!"

I am not holding out for anything, however for the sake of £2.50 which is less than a beer - what do i have to lose????????

For me now, it's not the damage, it's not about the money, it's the principle and the mothers attitude.........and her failure to take repsonsibility for her wretched child.
 
I realise this is common sense but if you do get her details and get in touch be careful not to make any kind of threat other than legal action. You wouldn't want to give her an excuse to get out of it.
 
One of those dent removal companies can get a dent out for under £100, if the dent bothers you get it fixed if not put it down to the scars of life.
 
wack61 said:
One of those dent removal companies can get a dent out for under £100, if the dent bothers you get it fixed if not put it down to the scars of life.
Click to expand...

They certainly can.....

roofed.jpg


most of that came out using paintless dent repair :nuts:
 
I have absolutely no idea if you can/could/will claim and succeed, however.
I'm guessing that the thing that ****es you off the most is the attitude.
It would me too, and I'm only reading this.
Thing is, ill bred lowlife have no incentive / motivation to change their ways.
They say and do things in the sure and certain knowledge they will get away with it.
Those on the receiving end are expected to turn the other cheek, grin and bear it.
Why should we? It flies in the face of natural justice.
We need a sea change in societal attitudes to control scum effectively, they need to feel pain, physical or financial. Then, and only then will they amend their behaviour.
 
zeugma said:
I have absolutely no idea if you can/could/will claim and succeed, however.
I'm guessing that the thing that ****es you off the most is the attitude.
It would me too, and I'm only reading this.
Thing is, ill bred lowlife have no incentive / motivation to change their ways.
They say and do things in the sure and certain knowledge they will get away with it.
Those on the receiving end are expected to turn the other cheek, grin and bear it.
Why should we? It flies in the face of natural justice.
We need a sea change in societal attitudes to control scum effectively, they need to feel pain, physical or financial. Then, and only then will they amend their behaviour.
Click to expand...


................. :eek:
 
Frankly, she is a total scumbag for having that attitude. Accidents do happen, and people should take responsibility for their actions. If she is careless enough to let a bloody kid push a trolly of shopping round a car park she deserves to pay up when that decision backfires on her - more so for having that ****** attitude.

I say pursue it - but only go for the minimal cost approach. If she genuinely doesn't want to pay out then there won't be much you can do on the cheap to force the matter - but often a sternly worded official looking letter can really put the ***** up some people. Even if it is only enough to get the to admit doing it on record...

(Subject really winds me up after being hit by a van recently)
 
john182rs said:
You may be able to claim against her if you have CCTV evidence, you will struggle to get this without a solicitor though as they will have to request it from the store security managment team and they have to authorise it aswell. This can take a long time to do.
I currently work for a company that see this sort of thing happen on a regular occasion and each time the application for request of CCTV has been thrown out due to how petty the crime is. Had some one drove across the car park and rammed you or the car then they will be able to hand it over.
Might be easier getting blood from a stone rather than claiming damages from 10 year old with a trolley.
Click to expand...

If that is the case and it was my car, I would jointly sue the Mother and the Supermarket on the basis that the Supermarket has provided an environment and equipment likely to lead to this sort of damage. I'm sure they would quickly change their mind about supplying the CCTV. What sort of attitude is that for a Supermarket to decide if their customer's damage is significant enough! Too many power mad people for my liking.

Ken
 
I don't think these places keep cctv footage for more than a month so if you need it, be quick about asking for it.
 
some people in here obviously dont give a hoot about their cars then..

personally i would have seriously concidered wanging a trolley into her car once she developed the attitude..
 
neil_g said:
some people in here obviously dont give a hoot about their cars then..

personally i would have seriously concidered wanging a trolley into her car once she developed the attitude..
Click to expand...


Neil,

As i mentioned before - the thought crossed my mind, but so did the one that I am above the age of criminal responsibility, and therefore would / could likely be arrested / charged with criminal damage / vandalism... you name it..............
 
Lynton said:
Neil,

As i mentioned before - the thought crossed my mind, but so did the one that I am above the age of criminal responsibility, and therefore would / could likely be arrested / charged with criminal damage / vandalism... you name it..............
Click to expand...

yeah i know, it probably cause more hassle than its worth but itd certainly go through my mind at the time lol
 
zeugma said:
I have absolutely no idea if you can/could/will claim and succeed, however.
I'm guessing that the thing that ****es you off the most is the attitude.
It would me too, and I'm only reading this.
Thing is, ill bred lowlife have no incentive / motivation to change their ways.
They say and do things in the sure and certain knowledge they will get away with it.
Those on the receiving end are expected to turn the other cheek, grin and bear it.
Why should we? It flies in the face of natural justice.
We need a sea change in societal attitudes to control scum effectively, they need to feel pain, physical or financial. Then, and only then will they amend their behaviour.
Click to expand...

:thumbs:
If neighbourhoods could recruit likeminded individuals to think as one and mete out some rough justice, everyone of the miscreants could/would be held to account. They'd soon recognise there's a punishment to fit every crime.
Call it vigilante mobs, but I see it more as neighbourhood policing with an iron fist that would be local and effective.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top