Studio lighting problem (novice) - Pictures staying black?

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computerbarry

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Hi all

I've recently bought a set of bowens studio lights, my problem is I've metered each light f11 s125 and f8 s125 iso 200... set my camera to iso 200 s125 f11, but when I shoot any test shots the images are completely black, the lights are on and lighting up half the room but stays black :shake:

Now if I push the settings on the camera to f2.8 s60 iso400 i get an ok image, surely somethings no right here? What do you think is wrong? Why are the settings not syncing together?

Any help thanks :)
 
how are you connecting the camera to the lights?

Radio or sync cord?


edit. too slow again. what matty says.
 
Lens cap ?
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:) already checked that.

My bet would be using the on camera flash, and the pre-flash is setting the lights off, which then makes the actual image dark...
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Correct, on camera flash but I also tried without and shot with continuous lighting (if that what it is?) and still black?

how are you connecting the camera to the lights? Radio or sync cord?
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I'm not connecting the camera to the lights, I've taken a reading with my light meter using the sync cord and typed the settings in manual onto the camera.

what else do you think? still learning so any advice or tips much appreciated

Thanks guys :cool:
 
computerbarry said:
Hi all

I've recently bought a set of bowens studio lights, my problem is I've metered each light f11 s125 and f8 s125 iso 200... set my camera to iso 200 s125 f11, but when I shoot any test shots the images are completely black, the lights are on and lighting up half the room but stays black :shake:

Now if I push the settings on the camera to f2.8 s60 iso400 i get an ok image, surely somethings no right here? What do you think is wrong? Why are the settings not syncing together?

Any help thanks :)
Click to expand...

What is the cameras shutter sync speed, usually about 200-250th.
 
So are using the strobe's slave cell funtion to connect the camera to the strobes?
 
try connecting the sync cord from the camera to the strobes.
 
I am guessing that the studio flashes are being set off by the preflash of the onboard flash, depending what camera you have you may be able to switch them off or buy a wireless trigger or use the sync cord, any of those should sort your problem out.
 
What is the cameras shutter sync speed, usually about 200-250th.
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250 I think, when I pop up the flash I can't set my shutter any faster than 250... I eventually want to shoot s500 to catch people jumping, is it just a matter of changing the setting to 500? thanks.
So are using the strobe's slave cell function to connect the camera to the strobes?
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I think so. If I switch the cell buttons on, the strobes flash when I use the flash to trigger them. if I don't I still get the same effect but the lights stay on permanent without flashing everytime I take a shot.
try connecting the sync cord from the camera to the strobes.
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I have a sync in on both strobes, i used the same lights in college a few years back and never connected the camera, if I'm using both lights, which one do I plug into?
I'd do what Tom says, physically connect the camera to the lights, then once you've made sure that the lights do actually work, then you can work out why the flash isn't firing them
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The lights do work. The lights are firing, its just I need to jump about 6 stops and reduce my shutter speed to see anything. I've just shot a few frames sitting on the chair, the light meter says s125 f11, but to get a clear image i need s60 f2.8 / 3.5 as above.
I am guessing that the studio flashes are being set off by the preflash of the onboard flash, depending what camera you have you may be able to switch them off or buy a wireless trigger or use the sync cord, any of those should sort your problem out.
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cheers dave, the flash does trigger the lights but also works if I just leave the lights on as above, even if i cover the flash with some card it still fires but nothing.

Nikon D300

I'll keep trying any more information thanks in advance:cool:
 
You need to put the flash into manual mode, set -3 on the flash exposure compensation (don't have my camera to hand, but it's in the manual).

When you say the lights are "staying on" I suspect you mean that the modelling lights are on, the flash tubes don't have a stay on facility, because of the power they use (and the time they'd last!)

What happens is that the pop up flash fires a pre-flash to determine the exposure required, although why it does it in manual is beyond me, and that pre-flash is setting off your studio lights a millisecond before the shutter opens, so by the time the shutter does open, there's no flash to record as it's been and gone.
 
Sounds very much like a synching issue. At that speed you won't necessarily register the modelling lights.

I'd agree with the previous posters, plug them in and see what happens, it's the only real way to test them. You can plug into either because one slaves off the other.
 
When you say the lights are "staying on" I suspect you mean that the modelling lights are on
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Yes, the modeling lights, I spoke with a guy before I bought them, he said its the best way, plus i don't need to keep firing the flash... or is it better without the modeling lights?
...and that pre-flash is setting off your studio lights a millisecond before the shutter opens, so by the time the shutter does open, there's no flash to record as it's been and gone.
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Yes but again if I leave the modeling lights on with out using the flash its the same. Well explained thank you :)

If it helps my on board camera flash is set to master, I used to trigger my sb800.

I'd agree with the previous posters, plug them in and see what happens, it's the only real way to test them. You can plug into either because one slaves off the other.
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thanks bouncy :) I'll have to give that a try, bit late now so I'll be back tomorrow if you guys are around, I'm sure I'll be here heavily over the next couple of weeks :cool:

thanks again for all the input:)
 
That's the reason - The triggering of the SB800

The flash on the D300 sends a pulse out to the SB800 before the flash fires to "tell" it the settings to fire at. This pulse is detected by the studio strobes, which then fire before the shutter opens.

It all happens in 1000th's of seconds, so you can't see it, but that's what's happening :)
 
mattyh has it correct - seen it before. Follow his instructions above about setting onboard flash to manual and it should all be working
 
computerbarry said:
250 I think, when I pop up the flash I can't set my shutter any faster than 250... I eventually want to shoot s500 to catch people jumping, is it just a matter of changing the setting to 500? thanks.
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Max shutter speed is 1/250th. But that doesn't affect the exposure. The speed of the flash is probably much faster and that is effectively your shutter speed.

computerbarry said:
I have a sync in on both strobes, i used the same lights in college a few years back and never connected the camera, if I'm using both lights, which one do I plug into?
Click to expand...

Plug in to the one closest to the camera. THe light from that should set off the light on the other. If not switch them.

computerbarry said:
The lights do work. The lights are firing, its just I need to jump about 6 stops and reduce my shutter speed to see anything. I've just shot a few frames sitting on the chair, the light meter says s125 f11, but to get a clear image i need s60 f2.8 / 3.5 as above.
cheers dave, the flash does trigger the lights but also works if I just leave the lights on as above, even if i cover the flash with some card it still fires but nothing.
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As noted previously it's the preflash. Set your on camera unit to manual. That should do away with the preflash. If you use that, you don't need to connect the sync cord.
 
computerbarry said:
Yes, the modeling lights, I spoke with a guy before I bought them, he said its the best way, plus i don't need to keep firing the flash... or is it better without the modeling lights?
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Don't know who you spoke to but he obviously knows little! The modelling lights can be useful but generally you want the power of your flash. The modelling light gives a guide as toi how the image may look - it shows the where shadows fall. Study the light on your subject from the modelling lamps and compare with the final exposure from your strobes.
 
When metering, there's three things to consider regards exposure

ISO - You should generally be at the lowest your camera can go. ISO100 or 200

Shutter Speed - This is actually something many mistake as actually being important in a studio shot. Shutter speed really doesn't matter generally (so long as you black out any ambient light). The shutter speed controls ambient light. Set the SS to anywhere from 1/125 to the max synch speed of your camera. It won't matter.

THe flash duration is basically your shutter speed and each model of flash has a different flash duration - check your manual. Probably somewhere between 1/1000th and 1/4000th.

Aperture - This is the most important consideration. If you need a particular aperture then set the power on your strobe appropriately (a meter is useful for this).

To set off your strobes, you can use cheap radio triggers from E-bay, you can use an existing flash like your SB800 but the flash has to be set to manual so that the preflash doesn't fire and you would usually want the light from the flash to be hidden from the subject so that it does not affect the exposure. Or the cheapest way is to attach the synch cords that came with your lights. Cables are a pain and radio triggers are the most popular way.
 
Reading through it seems you might be taking your readings from the modeling lights. You must meter the light from the flash.
Try and stick with shutter at 125th even for 'jumping' shots. The duration of the flash will freeze the action for you.
Hope this helps
 
I think that the second poster tied it all up nicely. It seems like a sync prob. I think that I am right in saying that not all cameras only fire one flash in manual, I shall have to check on that. While on this subject, it reminds me that I have a SAMSUNG compact camera that fires 3 flashes normally so it was back to the drawing board to make a 1 or 2 flash cutout.
 
classcams said:
I think that the second poster tied it all up nicely. It seems like a sync prob. I think that I am right in saying that not all cameras only fire one flash in manual, I shall have to check on that. While on this subject, it reminds me that I have a SAMSUNG compact camera that fires 3 flashes normally so it was back to the drawing board to make a 1 or 2 flash cutout.
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Tested 4 cameras on manual. D90,10d,5d,300d all fire 2 flashes in manual. here is an adaptor for studio work.
 
Thread cleaned. Lets keep on topic now please :)
 
trevorbray said:
Reading through it seems you might be taking your readings from the modeling lights. You must meter the light from the flash.
Try and stick with shutter at 125th even for 'jumping' shots. The duration of the flash will freeze the action for you.
Hope this helps
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I don't think the modelling lights would give an exposure of f8?
 
classcams said:
Tested 4 cameras on manual. D90,10d,5d,300d all fire 2 flashes in manual. here is an adaptor for studio work.
Click to expand...

The FLASH needs to be in manual also.

In the auto modes, your flash HAS to fire a preflash to determine the correct exposure. But in MANUAL mode (Flash I mean not the camera) the preflash is not required so the only output is what you set the flash at.

Most people don't want the light from their camera interfering with the overall exposure so place something over the light so it doesn't interfere with the exposure - the light direct from the camera angle is not the optimum place unless it's a nice diffused fill.

So put the flash to Manual, set the camera to manual (to fire the strobe you should be able to use the lowest power setting) and away you go.
 
You need to put the flash into manual mode, set -3 on the flash exposure compensation
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:D Works great! Thanks and thanks to everyone who mentioned this.

Most people don't want the light from their camera interfering with the overall exposure so place something over the light so it doesn't interfere with the exposure
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I was washing the picture out, but once I covered the flash to avoid hitting the subject, works perfect! :)

So, metering now sync's with the camera producing sharp well exposed pictures, understanding the M flash stuff, I'll be picking up a trigger tomorrow hopefully (I can then stop worrying about using the on board flash to activate the lights) something less to worry about :)

I'm not sure if the modeling lights was having an effect on the F stop but still trying to understand this modeling light situation, once i changed the modeling button I did get a different reading, so maybe it was having a little effect.

the back of the strobe has a modeling button:
Relative (REL)​
User (USR)​
Max (MAX)​
Off​

If I use 1 light F11 I get the usually half lit type of picture, but if I switch the button to max, its as if I have 2 lights running. Any more information on how the modeling lights work?

I'll let you know if I have anymore problems, and thanks for your time everyone, learned a lot over the last couple of nights and really helped, thank you :cool:
 
computerbarry said:
Any more information on how the modeling lights work?
Click to expand...

I leave the modelling lights on as it gives the camera something to 'see' when
focusing.
 
computerbarry said:
I'm not sure if the modeling lights was having an effect on the F stop but still trying to understand this modeling light situation, once i changed the modeling button I did get a different reading, so maybe it was having a little effect.
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The modelling light generally turns OFF very briefly when the flash fires - it will not affect your exposure. As noted above, it helps you autofocus

computerbarry said:
the back of the strobe has a modeling button:
Relative (REL)​
User (USR)​
Max (MAX)​
Off​
Click to expand...

RELATIVE - means that as you turn the power up/down on your flash your modelling light will move up/down - This gives you an idea of where shadows will fall and is useful if using two or more of the same lights with all modelling lights the same power.

USER - I think means you can set the brightenss to wherever you want

MAX - should be obvious - the brightest on all the time

OFF - again obvious.

computerbarry said:
If I use 1 light F11 I get the usually half lit type of picture, but if I switch the button to max, its as if I have 2 lights running. Any more information on how the modeling lights work?
Click to expand...

Can you expand?
 
I leave the modelling lights on as it gives the camera something to 'see' when
focusing.
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yes with you on that, struggled many of times trying to get focus in dark situations not just studio work thanks.
Can you expand?
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I mean, say I have the modeling light on REL, I shoot the subject with just 1 light to the side with a softbox metered @ F11, I get a half lit shadow effect on the face as you'd expect. Now if I keep everything the same and switch the modeling light to MAX, the subject/photo gets exposed as if i have another light running on the other side (no shadow, perfect exposure on both sides).

So generally speaking if I turn it to MAX its as if I,m increasing the power of the strobe and not just the preview... if that makes sense, I'll have to check but I'm sure that's what happened.

thanks all:)
 
Not sure why it would do that as the light is still coming from one side? What lights are you using?
 
Like I said JB, not hundred % sure on that so I'll double check tomorrow and get back if any problems, don't want to be running with a not needed problem :)

Just looking at your site... Good Stuff :cool: (i take it you prefer the black BG instead of white, I'm the same at the moment getting very sharp blacks, I think the pictures look better than on white, depending on the subject obviously) thanks again.
 
I do like black but I've lots with white backgrounds I need to add!

McKenzie-257.jpg


McKenzie-078.jpg


KJG-54.jpg


JD

PS All with two lights on the background (Lastolite Hilite) and one light on the subjects (53" Octabox) - PS THanks for the comments on my web site :)
 
computerbarry said:
yes with you on that, struggled many of times trying to get focus in dark situations not just studio work thanks.

I mean, say I have the modeling light on REL, I shoot the subject with just 1 light to the side with a softbox metered @ F11, I get a half lit shadow effect on the face as you'd expect. Now if I keep everything the same and switch the modeling light to MAX, the subject/photo gets exposed as if i have another light running on the other side (no shadow, perfect exposure on both sides).

So generally speaking if I turn it to MAX its as if I,m increasing the power of the strobe and not just the preview... if that makes sense, I'll have to check but I'm sure that's what happened.

thanks all:)
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That doesn't make sense. For the modelling lamp to have any real effect, you would have to have the head extremely close to the subject AND use a slow shuttter speed (flash exposure is affected by the lens aperture, continuous light exposure is affected by the shutter speed).
But even if you were using such a slow shutter speed that the continous modelling lamp affected the exposure, it would of course only affect exactly the area lit by the flash - there is no way that it could transport itself to the other side of the face...
 
there is no way that it could transport itself to the other side of the face...
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:) a know it does sound a bit far fetched, still learning and as above I'll check again tomorrow, might of knocked the setting on something else and thanks for the detailed explanation Garry.

Good pictures JD, nice variety, ironically I have a Lastolite Hilite on order so should be getting mine soon :) Am sure I'll be asking questions about this further down the line, you say 2 lights 1 inside(shooting through onto the back of the subject) and 1 main light at the front or do you mean 2 lights on the bg and 1 in front totaling 3 lights?

I've heard you'll lose lots of sleep trying to fold the thing back up :cool:

Catch up tomorrow anyway, going to bed now thanks again guys :)
 
computerbarry said:
:) a know it does sound a bit far fetched, still learning and as above I'll check again tomorrow, might of knocked the setting on something else and thanks for the detailed explanation Garry.

Good pictures JD, nice variety, ironically I have a Lastolite Hilite on order so should be getting mine soon :) Am sure I'll be asking questions about this further down the line, you say 2 lights 1 inside(shooting through onto the back of the subject) and 1 main light at the front or do you mean 2 lights on the bg and 1 in front totaling 3 lights?

I've heard you'll lose lots of sleep trying to fold the thing back up :cool:

Catch up tomorrow anyway, going to bed now thanks again guys :)
Click to expand...

I used 3 lights. 2x Elinchron BX400 lights shooting into the background and a further 400BX with a 53" softbox as the main light - In some a reflector was used as fill.
 
I am just starting out with studio lights and the answers here have been most helpful in sorting out my similar problems.
Mick
 
Great Pics JD.

I am looking to steal some poses, posted in Portraits and people but not had much response. need poses for combinations of up to 7/8 girls (as in 2,3,4`s etc).

Anyone got any they care to share, please post away.

Thanks
 
that is a big question :)
 
Not sure which Bowens you're using but you should be able to set them so the modeling light goes out on flash (intermittent) which sounds like what you're doing initially. But when you turn the modeling light to Max something's changed. Also, are you possibly getting bounce off an adjacent light surface?

What Bowens are they?
 
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