Studio Lighting - advise and your thoughts

[JJ-DK]

First of all, I’m new here (And I’m Danish – so I’m sorry for the imperfections that there might be with my english

I have been looking for a lighting setup (4 heads) for quite some time. As versatile as possible – for both studio lighting and for location shots (might even be some action involved – shot in the evening) so essentially I narrowed my choices down to these possibilities: (one thing I find important is the possibility to adjust the strobes remotely)

1: The Einstein’s from Paul C. Buff
IGBT = fast flash duration, enough power for most applications, portable with the vagabond packs, quite good color consistency
:thumbsdown: flimsy mount, quite expensive to buy in the EU – some reports that they are noisy (fan) and these will essentially be budget light at a premium price – in the US there are a lot more “bang for the buck” for this system

2: Elindchrom RX600:
: Quality in general
:thumbsdown:: Not superfast flash durations = limited possibilities regarding action photography, no dedicated battery pack – so third party for this.

3: Strobeam EID G-5 IGBT
Actually they tick most of the boxes I think, S-Mount (a lot of possibilities for modifiers), IGBT, portable solution, remotely adjustable, cheaper than Einsteins (but not cheap per say)
:thumbsdown: Unproven system, their Power is somewhat on the weak side compared to the above, some of the specifications are questionable or not quite clear.. And the pricing is just not logic

So what are your thougts on these different systems, have i missed some that i should take in to consideration?


BTW, I send this to Strobeam, to get some things clarified


Dear Strobeam...
Have some questions regarding your product the EID G-5 IGBT, which I can’t find the answer for on your website strobeam.eu

The f-stop measured distance T=1/125 iso 100: Full power F45,2 – is this measured bare bulb or with some sort of reflector?

What is the flash duration when not In FP mode, at different power settings? (Just at full stops 1/1 – 1/64)
The John Ryan Review mentions 1/400s at 500 W/s (is this measured as t1 or t5 durations)

What are the 3 different modeling lamp modes? (on/off, proportional or adjustable?)

And another thing, I don’t understand your pricing – on the DL250 MKIII its quite obviously, that the complete package with 4 heads is the best deal (as it should be) but the EID G-5 IGBT not as much…

I mean if you buy one head kit at for 625£ you will get the following:
1 x G-5 EID 500 IGBT High Speed Flash
1 x DL4.3 New Battery Pack
1 x 3G Multi ID Control Remote Device
1 x 18cm Spill Kill Reflector
1 x Honey Comb
1 x 3m Heavy Duty Aluminium Aircushion Lighting Stand
1 x 105cm Parabolic Umbrella

However if you buy the 2 head kit at 1250£ you will get
2 x G-5 EID 500 IGBT High Speed Flash
2 x DL4.3 New Battery Pack
1 x 3G Multi ID Control Remote Device
2 x 18cm Spill Kill Reflector
1 x Honey Comb
2 x 3m Heavy Duty Aluminium Aircushion Lighting Stand
2 x 105cm Parabolic Umbrella

By the way the in the text it says, and I quote: Complete with compact carrying case and small parabolic reflector – I don’t see the Carrying case mentioned in specifications for each kit – so which one is it, with or without ???

I´m looking to buy 4 heads, which means I can chose to buy either 4 x single head kit, or 2 x 2 head kits which would give me one of either packages.
4 x single head kit
4 x G-5 EID 500 IGBT High Speed Flash
4 x DL4.3 New Battery Pack
4 x 3G Multi ID Control Remote Device
4 x 18cm Spill Kill Reflector
4 x Honey Comb
4 x 3m Heavy Duty Aluminium Aircushion Lighting Stand
4 x 105cm Parabolic Umbrella

2 X 2 head kit
4 x G-5 EID 500 IGBT High Speed Flash
4 x DL4.3 New Battery Pack
2 x 3G Multi ID Control Remote Device
4 x 18cm Spill Kill Reflector
2 x Honey Comb
4 x 3m Heavy Duty Aluminium Aircushion Lighting Stand
4 x 105cm Parabolic Umbrella

First off all - they cost will be the same – 2500£
But with the 4 x single head kit – you will get: 4 x 3G Multi ID Control Remote Devices and 4 x Honey Comb, instead of 2 of each with the 2 x 2 head kit, which means essentially more value buying 4 single head kits – is this really correct?
Are you planning to put a 4 head kit together – with a bit more logic regarding pricing or extras? – I mean it’s essentially ok to have a backup of the 3D Id remote control - but 3 is just a little bit overkill (Especially at a price about 80£ for each unit), and 2 honeycombs is also ok – but 4 (by the way are the honeycombs 30 degrees or?)

Johnni

 

[HoppyUK]

Welcome to TP

What are your priorities? You can't have it all!

Power, durations, recycle, portability, price?

What exactly do you want to shoot?

 

[Cistron]

Don't most Elinchrom power pack heads work with the Ranger battery packs via an adapter? That might be the most versatile combination.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Richard is right, you need to decide on your priorities and make your decision based on those priorities.

If flash duration is paramount and power doesn't matter, then your choice may be between Strobeam and AB Einstein. You need to appreciate that although IGBT control can produce amazingly short flash durations, this is achieved by firing the flash at full power and then quenching it, cutting off the tail in the process, and the lower the power setting, the shorter the flash duration. The obvious downside to this is that even if you start off with (say) 640Ws of power, if you need short flash durations you'll need to turn the power setting down to maybe 80 Ws (1/8th power) and this may not always be enough.

If you want to avoid this limitation then you also need to avoid IGBT control. Both Bowens and Elinchrom make some models with impressively short flash durations, basically by having a physically small flash tube, making it even smaller by fitting it with an extra terminal, and by having very high voltage capacitors. All this costs money. And you need to be aware that the flash duration inevitably becomes longer as the power is reduced.

Moving up to 1st tier lighting, both Bron and Profoto produce models with exceptionally short flash durations, again at a cost, but this cost is worth it to some people.

As for location lighting, you should be able to plug any studio monoblock head into one of the 3rd party battery/inverter solutions but again there is a price, you may lose fast recycling, the modelling lamp and you may get less flashes than you hoped for from a charge. A better solution may be to get a dedicated portable flash solution. IMO really short flash durations only become truly relevant in low light conditions, where the level of ambient lighting is too low to cause blur, and I think that in these situations, where very little flash energy is needed, your choices may be between Strobeam and the Elinchrom Quadra (with the short-flash head). If you still need power, then the choice is really between the Elinchrom Ranger RX and the Profoto Acute B2 AIRs

 

[JJ-DK]

Hi HoppyUK, and thank you.

Well actually, i know i can't have it all - would be nice though..

But i'm looking for the most versatile lighting equipment, which means that enough power for overpowering the sun and yet, I would have to be able to dial them down, so they can be used in small spaces without having to use ND's etc.

Durations is an issue if i want to shoot actions in low light.. and i would like that option

Portabillity - well as long as it possible to carry them and i've got the option of the
powepack, i'll live with it (so the size doesn't matter so much)

Recycle - not so much

Price - well im calculating to invest about 3-4000£ if nesseceary
And again - i would like to get some lights, that there would accept modifiers with a mount that there is widely available..

Would use it for outdoor location, some action shooting ("boxing and football portraits") portraits in general..
No big groups or weddings (for now)

That is actually why, i have been looking at the 3 different brands/types - which seems to cover most of my needs (except the elindchroms because of the longer durations) - but i was wondering if I had forgotten something obvious, or anybody had some experience with either one...

Johnni

 

[JJ-DK]

Hi Garry.

Thank you for your input and explanations.

I can see the downside to IGBT controlled heads - but why is it when you f.ex. look at the Strobeam, that they use an FP mode for very fast durations - and the AB Einsteins have something similar...?

To give you all, some kind of idea of what i mean, when I write boxing portraits, and furthermore call them action - You have to picture two boxers in the ring, only lights from above (and we are not talking the lights seen in the tv matches) I want to capture the moment where the fist hits the opponements face, and you freeze that moment with blood, sweat and tears flying... btw - theese will be setup shots, not the actual match..

Im not quite sure if I really need IGBT for this type of shooting..?

Hope that you understand what I mean

 

[HoppyUK]

This may not be much help...

If the action shots you describe are central to what you want to do, then you need to be certain about exactly what kind of flash durations you need. To which I would add these comments.

To freeze a flying fist, you will need something quite brief - I don't know, but maybe something around 1/5000sec? Nothing but an IGBT flash will get near this. Then again, once the punch has landed there is a moment when everything will be almost stationary, except for the flying blood/sweat. So maybe you could get away with a lot longer.

If you are able to set things up, you could get the flash quite close and not need much power at all. If you can control the ambient too, then very little - just push the ISO.

You need to understand more about flash durations and how the different types of flash head work. IGBT, when used at lower powers, have very short durations in total time. When it says 1/10,000sec, that's what you get, just as with shutter speeds. The flash always fires at full power, reaches peak brightness almost immediately, and is then cut off abruptly by the IGBT circuit when enough light has been delivered.

Normal studio heads work quite differently. As power is reduced, the flash actually fires at reduced brightness, and the total duration time remains much the same - and it's quite long, like maybe 1/200sec from start to finish.

The bit that freezes the action is the peak of the flash which is a small part of the total and is expressed as a t.5 time - the time that the flash pulse stays above 50% of peak brightness. There's another problem here, in that quoted t.5 times don't actually bear much relation to what you might expect in terms of freezing movement compared to shutter speeds (or IGBT flash). From my own tests, if the t.5 time is say 1/2000sec, then the result you'll get will look more like a shutter speed of 1/1000sec, ie t.5 x 2. Some people suggest t.5 x 3 is more like it.

Another thing - IGTB flashes always produce shortest durations at lower power settings. Studio heads tend to be the reverse, with shortest times at highher outputs, though some battery systems and big studio generators with multiple small capacitors can reverse this.

I'm inclined to suggest that hot-shoe IGBT guns may be the way forward if short durations are priority, and double them up to increase power when you need it. They will recycle fast at lower power settings. No modelling light though. As a rough guide, a good hot-shoe gun can do about 100Ws equivalent at full power. I've not tried Einsteins (though I'd look closely at those) or Strobeam. Quantum is another to consider.

For studio type units, maybe Elinchrom Quadra would do the trick, especially plugged into a big Ranger battery pack. Or Profoto Acute B2. Possibly Bowens Pro series, or a studio generator pack if you check the specs carefully and use them at the right power. Multiblitz is another to check out.

You might end up with two systems - one for big power and general studio use, and hot-shoe guns for the high speed stuff.

 

[JonathanRyan]

The John Ryan Review mentions 1/400s at 500 W/s (is this measured as t1 or t5 durations)

I've a funny feeling this email will be on its way to me this morning....

Just catching up with a few things following a weekend away and then if you don't mind I'll try to answer your questions here rather than in a private email since lots of people seem interested.

 

[JonathanRyan]

The f-stop measured distance T=1/125 iso 100: Full power F45,2 – is this measured bare bulb or with some sort of reflector?

What is the flash duration when not In FP mode, at different power settings? (Just at full stops 1/1 – 1/64)
The John Ryan Review mentions 1/400s at 500 W/s (is this measured as t1 or t5 durations)

I can answer the last question It's basically a guess based on what I like to call the "HoppyUK" method. I photographed a desk fan with tape on it and compared images with flash against available light images at various shutter speeds. From that, it seemed to me that the stopping power was about 1/400s. That's not quite an unscientific as it sounds but is going to be an educated guestimate. It should be more representative of t.1 than t.5.

I don't have figures for durations at other powers other than noticing that they are quicker. From my understanding of the tech, I would guess that half power would be roughly half the duration (can anybody tell me if that's reasonable?) and so on.

My notes on power from a G5 fitted with "standard" reflector at 1m are that it gave f/64. However, that 1 metre wasn't measured accurately - I would assume that the 45.2 was measured under similar conditions at a more accurate distance. It's also possible I did those measurements since I did some on video for Strobeam but don't have a record of what they gave - I was concentrating more on not looking rally stupid on the camera.

I've raised the issue of pricing anomalies this morning. I'm not responsible for pricing but I'm sure they will get addressed. Meantime if you wanted to contact me via the Strobeam site I'd be happy to put a package together for you.

BTW....yeah, I want to take pictures of boxers getting punched.....

 

[JJ-DK]

Hey Jonathan..

Thanks for explaining the methods of the results from your review.. I have to say that it's a little dissapointing that there isn't any more substantiel data available - considering that it's a fairly "unknown" brand trying to establish itself on the market..

Off course data on a piece of paper is just "data", and the actual performance is the main thing... But it would be nice, beeing able to compare your products to the competitors.

I will contact you through the Strobeam website to get the pricing sorted.