Stofen Outside??

On the Huh

On the Huh

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Zulfi
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I like to use a bounce card, not sure if this is always neccasery, especially outside, but hey ho. I increasingly see people use a Stofen type diffusser out side, including pros that I have a lot of respect for when it comes to the quality of their work. I have always thought that this is completely useless outside. Am I missing something? or is ther some advantage?
 
I would take a guess at fill flash?
 
admirable said:
I would take a guess at fill flash?
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Perhaps I didn't put my point across very well. Of course flash is used on most occaissions as fill when out doors in daylight, but what is the advantage of a stofen diffusser outside?
 
It just softens the light abit more, just like it does inside, though inside you are usually bouncing it off the ceiling etc.
 
Yeah, I thought it was for bouncing light everywhere, but outside you're not bouncing off anything? If it was just to make the flash less harsh, then surely Flash comp? :thinking:
 
It will also make the light appear bigger when leavng the flash, so you'd get a larger catchlight, you should also get a more even distribution of the light so less rapid dropoff.
 
NigelPaul said:
Yeah, I thought it was for bouncing light everywhere, but outside you're not bouncing off anything? If it was just to make the flash less harsh, then surely Flash comp? :thinking:
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Quite. It does nothing outside. Without a surface the bounce off, the diffuser cap itself doesn't make the light source materially larger, so there is no softening effect. But that doesn't stop a lot of folks believing that it does ;)

However, it can't possibly do any harm, other than waste light, but a powerful gun can handle that. And if you use it in the proper manner, ie turned up 60 or 90 degrees, it raises the height of the flash head a small but perhaps useful amount.

Also, if you're a busy press tog rushing about, ten seconds later you could be shooting inside where it will definitely do something useful and so you're already set up and good to go.
 
Thanks Lawrie and Richard for your input. Richard, you have confirmed what I thought, with always that extra bit of info! Thanks once again. :thumbs:
 
lawrie29 said:
It just softens the light abit more, just like it does inside, though inside you are usually bouncing it off the ceiling etc.
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No

lawrie29 said:
It will also make the light appear bigger when leavng the flash, so you'd get a larger catchlight, you should also get a more even distribution of the light so less rapid dropoff.
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No

Do you understand how it works?
 
Guess not!! :)

Go on then explain...
 
david1701 said:
No



No

Do you understand how it works?
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David...You been on the vodka?:D As Hoppy says
But that doesn't stop a lot of folks believing that it does
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We can all learn from more experienced people here. I know you may say Lawrie shouldn't have answered, but I believe that many togs mis-understand the diffusser.............So much so, the reason why I questioned it. No good on picking on someone just cos he was nice enough to reply.

Hoppy confirmed my thoughts, and gave me, but hopefully, gave others too, some education that they weren't aware of.

Edit: Not sure if that sounds right,but I'm on the Gold Labels tonight! ;-)
 
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Although my basic knowledge of physics says I am right............
 
the stofen is designed to throw some of the light forwards and some of it out of each side to give a fill in from bouncing off each of the walls but still getting some direct to the subject

outside you loose all the power going out the sides, that and everyone that sees you shuns you

Also it defeats the point of the zoom head because it acts as a diffuser (thats the same size as the flash head so in no way alters softness which is based on relative size)
 
I'm someone who pretty much always has a stofen on the flash on their short zoom camera. A lot of the time, it's gaffer taped on.

I've found that not only the annoyance factor of taking it off / losing it / losing lots of them if they're not taped on (I tend to buy the things in 5s on ebay...), flashes can usually more than cope with the power and recycle times, so that's not an issue, and a stofen can't really do much harm when oncamera, as any random other bits of light that do hit walls or people or whatever do help, even if only a small amount - probably not great if you're a pixel peeper, but when doing actual work, fast moving scenarios etc...

I don't know, I just noticed a difference in the actual photos between when I use one and when I don't. I guess that it's just little bits of light reflecting off the ground or other people etc. My usual oncamera indoor flash setting is with the head 45 degrees upwards, stofen on. Gets it a wee bit higher, and softens the light bouncing it off anything that's available whatsoever. I have only ever once run down a set of batteries in my speedlights, as long as you charge batteries nightly/before/after shooting, it's not really an issue.
 
Well firstly, the Stofen is larger than the flashgun, not by much, but it is. The lightspheres etc. are larger still. Also it will depend on the angle of the flashgun. If you have the head firing directly in front of you, the effect will be at it's lowest. If you were at 45 degrees of tilt, you are going to have 2 sides of the stofen on show, so a larger surface area generating light, so a larger catchlight.

They also have a larger surface area for the light to be reflected internally and in all directions, as you point out, you lose power out the sides - well thats diffusing the light and making it softer, cos it is not all firing at your subject. You see you've answered your own question there.


So on point one, as the stofen is larger than the flash you will have a larger catchlight. OK it is not by much, and it may not be noticable but it is.

And on point 2, as you said the light spills out the side, softening it.

Now, you do have much more experience of this than I, so whether these effects are any use at all is a completely different question, the answer to which I suspect is that is doesn't based on your previous answers.

And people don't shun you....well they don't me.
 
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See. my basic knowledge of physics is correct! The way the light leaves the stofen is exactly as I described!

I just missed the second class on how that light would reach the subject and so the influence it has on the photograph.

So a lightsphere is the future.

Either that, or get a chest harness to attach your flash to, and aiming it at your torso whilst wearing a white shirt use your own body as a reflector........

Though people probably woudl shun you for that...............
 
HoppyUK said:
Good tutorial here says different http://www.lumiquest.com/how-light-modifiers-work.htm

Richard (sober and smug :p )
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Cheers Richard. Never used Lumiquest stuff before. Got a Peter Gregg style piece of Funky Foam with velcro on my strobes though.

Time for bed for me though. Lawrie, not sure I understand your last post, but thank you for your input, will read again when I'm sober;):thumbs:

Goodnight!
 
yeah I know what you mean. The traditonal flash is mounted above the camera so nothing to bounce off. If you mounted the flash upside down, underneath the camera, the light could then bounce off the togs body, diffusing the light
 
lawrie29 said:
See. my basic knowledge of physics is correct! The way the light leaves the stofen is exactly as I described!

I just missed the second class on how that light would reach the subject and so the influence it has on the photograph.

So a lightsphere is the future.

Either that, or get a chest harness to attach your flash to, and aiming it at your torso whilst wearing a white shirt use your own body as a reflector........

Though people probably woudl shun you for that...............
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LOL yes, but you missed the important bit ;)

LightSphere should be good (I'm guessing you mean the Fong LS) but the problem with that IMHO is it tries to do too much - both spreading the light all around like the Stofen, and also trying to be a bigger light source at the same time.

The upshot is that even a big hot-shoe gun just runs out of power, or has to run flat out all the time which means long recycling times. It's hopeless for high speed sync outdoors which reduces the effective power even before the Fong starts to squander it about all over the place. It's not so different to the Stofen in that respect, but you can forgive the Stofen as its other virtues - small, robust, cheap - make up for it.

If you want to play the all-in-one game, you can't afford to waste a drop of light, which is one of the reasons I like the Lumiquest Quik Bounce http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm It's selective in where it sends both the bounce component of the light, and also the direct part - plus you can alter the ratios. The result is really nice light, great versatility, control, and efficiency which is a pretty damn cool combination in such a simple accessory :thumbs: And it folds away flat.

I have a box full of various diffuser accessories but for the last year or so I don't think I've actually used any of them except the Lumiquest QB. On a location shoot, if you don't know what you're going to find and want to be able to enhance the light significantly with both outdoor fill-in and bounce-fill indoors even with quite a high ceiling, it's a great tool to have.
 
Very informative post there Hoppy, thanks. Maybe just a little fiddly to use, but the demo shots certainly show a marked improvement in the resulting image so it has to be worth it.
 
Some interesting and informative replies here. For fill flash outdoors I just use the bare gun as I only want a splash of flash and for me the Stofen just wastes light by spreading it around - just my personal opinion :D. I always have the Demb Flip-it attached to my flashes as it folds away neatly (as can be seen in image 1) ready for use should I move indoors. I have been known to use it outside on occasion when I require very little flash and I do realise that I am wasting light but as I say this is a very rare occasion.

A bare flash example outdoors whereby I want just enough light to lift the shadows:

AnnieRoy-3.jpg



Indoors bounced of a wall:

AmandaGraham-4a.jpg


Indoors using the Demb Flip-it:

PaulaAndy-10.jpg


Like many others I have tried nearly all the diffusers on the market and whilst I quite like the Fong LS I found it too cumbersome and prone to being knocked off - particularly when carrying two bodies/flashed on a double strap. I alos used a Better Bounce Card type of diffuser made from Fab Foam but ditched them in favour of the Demb. The Lumiquest type I find too fiddly and the Stofen doesn't soften the light enough indoors so now it is either the Demb or bare flash bounced behind me off walls and ceilings with no direct light hitting the subject. I realise I am getting away from the original question but I always now use two remote flashes with the Dembs fitted when doing the speeches as it gives me consistent, even lighting that I can control and I do not have to worry about fall-off should the flash be on camera. This is very useful for long top tables.

Two remote speedlights set up for speeches with the Flip-its attached:

AmandaGraham-17.jpg
 
Demb Flip-it is excellent http://www.dembflashproducts.com/flipit/models/ Small one is really neat and effective. A simple bounce card works very well too www.abetterbouncecard.com

They both need a bounce surface to work properly though, which is where the Lumiquest Quik Bounce scores. It works outside and gives a useful amount of softening used as direct or fill-in flash. You have to be close though, like maybe 8-10 feet or less, as the light source gets relatively smaller with distance. For large groups you might as well use the bare flash.
 
I have used a silver Bowens multiclip which has velco on one side to attach it to the flash head, I then add a piece of card (white/silver) to the multiclip to give me a bounce surface.

I used to use this back in the 80s for wedding and portrait shots inside and outside, by varying the size and colour of the card you could get different effect/power of light.

Should have had the foresight to patent it then.

I will see if I can dig it out and show it on my old Metz 45CT5.
 
My stofens are always on outside. The main reason is, I've done it for that long I know exactly what the flash is going to do and how much comp to adjust by without thinking about it. Did try it once without but was convinced it seemed harsher and a colder light .... ?

Having them on just works for me .....
 
I use it by default when shooting outdoors unless I go completely off-camera, in which case I'll triple-diffuse in most cases: dome diffuser and double-layered softbox... maybe even a tri-grip diffuser as well...
 
Thanks again Richard. very helpful as always,

Thanks Colin. Demb flip it, looks worh looking into. Thanks for putting up examples. Great Pics as usual.

Ed, love to see what you used.

Dave..you are one I referred to in my OP
including pros that I have a lot of respect for when it comes to the quality of their work.
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i'm one of these people which uses (or should that be... used to use) a stofen outside.

i found that using it at the shorter focal lengths softened the shadows a bit.

anyway, i did some experiments over the weekend after seeing this thread on my phone and i have to say.... i didn't notice any difference between an exposure with it on and an exposure with it off.

i'll try to post some pictures later.
 
As far as I'm concerned, there's no point in having the stofen on the flash if there is nothing to bounce the light off, however I fully appreciate it's sometimes easier just to keep it on. I've lost way too many already :)
 
cuthbert said:
i'm one of these people which uses (or should that be... used to use) a stofen outside.

i found that using it at the shorter focal lengths softened the shadows a bit.

anyway, i did some experiments over the weekend after seeing this thread on my phone and i have to say.... i didn't notice any difference between an exposure with it on and an exposure with it off.

i'll try to post some pictures later.
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I've done that too, but I've not posted any pictures because there's nothing to show. Zip.

An A-B direct comparison is the only way. People sometimes say they notice a difference with a Stofen, but there's never any comparative evidence, with and without, to go with it.

Flash is very dependent on the environment, even naked direct flash. For example, if you shoot an identical subject in a small, light toned room, and then outside, the light on them will look quite different, and also the flash exposure level will drop by up to a stop outside. The flash looks much harsher outside, and there is zero fill-in coming from surroundings.

I have also noticed different effects depending on what I'm wearing! Shoot a subject in a white top when you're also wearing a white T-shirt and the flash bounces off them, back to you, and back to them as nice soft fill-in! That can make a big difference, your own built-in mobile reflector :D

With a Stofen outside, I also shot the same subject standing on a light grey patio to see if anything came up from that. It didn't. I even put a big white towel down to try and force some kind of reflection, but even that did nothing unless both the subject and I got down on one knee, a couple of feet from the ground.

Outside with a Stofen the only differences between that and direct flash were, a) the shadows move slightly because the flash head is angled up a bit higher, b) you instantly lose at least three stops of flash power. Gone into nowhere. Otherwise the images are identical.
 
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