Speedlites set up for first dance

bucz

bucz

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Hi guys,

I would like to create this setup of 2 speedlites as back lights set to manual and on camera speedlites on 2 cameras in ettl bounced either from walls or flash bender. Is anybody here using this setup that could tell me how to achieve it or which speedlites to get? Speedlites I have atm are canon 580 exII and Yongnuo yn-568 exII with 2 YN-622C receivers and one YN-622C-TX transceiver. I also have a cheap YN-460-II which can be set as slave but I don't use it on weddings. Thanks.
 
bucz said:
Hi guys,

I would like to create this setup of 2 speedlites as back lights set to manual and on camera speedlites on 2 cameras in ettl bounced either from walls or flash bender. Is anybody here using this setup that could tell me how to achieve it or which speedlites to get? Speedlites I have atm are canon 580 exII and Yongnuo yn-568 exII with 2 YN-622C receivers and one YN-622C-TX transceiver. I also have a cheap YN-460-II which can be set as slave but I don't use it on weddings. Thanks.
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You have the right kind of setup. What specific problems are you having?
 
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I'm no wedding pro (I have a few under my belt but I only do about 3 a year!) and I've used a similar setup before and when bounced and diffused well I think can look natural, if sometimes a little flat. Once I was down on flashes (due to one on a stand crashing to the floor) so used one on camera, the other set as a slave with my dutiful assistant (gf!) going mobile with it blending into the crowd which worked rather well and actually gave better results :)
 
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bucz said:
Interesting!
So what sort of setup do you normally use? :)
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I'm all for photographing their 1st dance with whatever lighting they paid for, so when they look back they will remember that's how it looked to them at the time rather than a 'studio' flash set-up (which is then usually shown in B&W)

Because I think the 3+ set-up is 'false' I explain it as that to potential clients, hence they then agree with me lol :)

Something like this... iTTL on-camera zoomed to 105mm and aimed straight at them, once the ambient is sorted of course - so just for clarification, all the lights behind the couple are the DJ's own, not mine

Dave

Leeds Wedding Photographer 059 - WEB .jpg
 
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odd jim said:
I'm no wedding pro (I have a few under my belt but I only do about 3 a year!) and I've used a similar setup before and when bounced and diffused well I think can look natural, if sometimes a little flat. Once I was down on flashes (due to one on a stand crashing to the floor) so used one on camera, the other set as a slave with my dutiful assistant (gf!) going mobile with it blending into the crowd which worked rather well and actually gave better results :)
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I'm still trying to sort out the best solution for this scenario. I used to do one flash behind couple and one on a stand with umbrella on my side and I was moving it with me then I bought LED light and used same way as with flash but it was easier to focus with constant light. Then I was second shooting with one guy and he used this setup which gave quite nice effect. The on camera bounced light was subtle and didn't look too false.
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'm all for photographing their 1st dance with whatever lighting they paid for, so when they look back they will remember that's how it looked to them at the time rather than a 'studio' flash set-up (which is then usually shown in B&W)

Because I think the 3+ set-up is 'false' I explain it as that to potential clients, hence they then agree with me lol :)

Something like this... iTTL on-camera zoomed to 105mm and aimed straight at them, once the ambient is sorted of course

Dave

View attachment 63276
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That's a great shot, and great use of the already set lighting. I think sometimes the problem is the DJ and ambient lighting isn't very good (especially when non traditional settings, such as conference halls etc are used!), when all you have is the rooms standard lighting and a few basic DJ colour boxes and lasers (last one I did, the DJ refused to turn off the lasers for the first dance, even after the groom backed up my request!).
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'm all for photographing their 1st dance with whatever lighting they paid for, so when they look back they will remember that's how it looked to them at the time rather than a 'studio' flash set-up (which is then usually shown in B&W)

Because I think the 3+ set-up is 'false' I explain it as that to potential clients, hence they then agree with me lol :)

Something like this... iTTL on-camera zoomed to 105mm and aimed straight at them, once the ambient is sorted of course

Dave

View attachment 63276
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Thanks Dave, this is fantastic shot and another option to consider. It definitely makes things easier when you don't have to set up extra equipment. I am not so sure about direct flash though. It works on this particular shot but I do wonder if it will on i.e. close ups.
 
bucz said:
I'm still trying to sort out the best solution for this scenario. I used to do one flash behind couple and one on a stand with umbrella on my side and I was moving it with me then I bought LED light and used same way as with flash but it was easier to focus with constant light. Then I was second shooting with one guy and he used this setup which gave quite nice effect. The on camera bounced light was subtle and didn't look too false.
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Yes that can look pretty good though you are at the mercy of the venue (tall ceilings can obviously have a big effect here). I've used a strong flash before when there's enough ambience set to second curtain, and placed an Opteka honeycomb grid on the flash itself to centralise the flash effect on the couple which also worked very well. You'd think it would look almost artificial but the concentrated area of flash and 2nd curtain ambience work well together. The only problem with this setup is if you don't have a second shooter, switching between this and a more normal shot means having to remove the grid from the flash, potentially missing shots.
 
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odd jim said:
That's a great shot, and great use of the already set lighting. I think sometimes the problem is the DJ and ambient lighting isn't very good (especially when non traditional settings, such as conference halls etc are used!), when all you have is the rooms standard lighting and a few basic DJ colour boxes and lasers (last one I did, the DJ refused to turn off the lasers for the first dance, even after the groom backed up my request!).
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I always ask DJ's to switch their lights off during first dance as I find editing those dots and colour spots pain in the arse. Dave proves that it can be done and look great but I think it's more hazardous and harder to get more usable shots. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Never had DJ refusing to switch the lights off before. Sounds mad. Was he also photographing or recording the first dance hence not willing to turn them off?
 
bucz said:
I always ask DJ's to switch their lights off during first dance as I find editing those dots and colour spots pain in the arse. Dave proves that it can be done and look great but I think it's more hazardous and harder to get more usable shots. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Never had DJ refusing to switch the lights off before. Sounds mad. Was he also photographing or recording the first dance hence not willing to turn them off?
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No, I think he was basically a bit of a knob who didn't like a polite request and was just going to do what he wanted! I did find it odd, as he must have this request all the time and otherwise seemed quite well setup, ie, had been doing the job for a while? I could be wrong but I can't see lasers in Dave's shot, I take it @DG Phototraining the lasers were turned off in that shot?
 
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DG Phototraining said:
Interesting :)

My couples & I HATE this sort of set-up as its so false - another case of each to their own eh

Glad you're sorted with it anyway, probably one of the quickest questions to solution on TP lol

Dave
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I couldn't see the OPs example, I'd assumed it was similar to what you posted.
 
Phil V said:
I couldn't see the OPs example, I'd assumed it was similar to what you posted.
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That's not what I think he means Phil - I take it he means two behind them, one either side pointing back at them, usually at something like f11 to kill any ambient and make for a starbusrt, then one from the front/side to light the couple too. It gives both a silhouette and lit with starburst option and looks great in B&W

I love that kind of shot btw, I think its great as a shot, but not as a shot showing their Wedding - if that makes sense :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
That's not what I think he means Phil - I take it he means two behind them, one either side pointing back at them, usually at something like f11 to kill any ambient and make for a starbusrt, then one from the front/side to light the couple too. It gives both a silhouette and lit with starburst option and looks great in B&W

I love that kind of shot btw, I think its great as a shot, but not as a shot showing their Wedding - if that makes sense :)

Dave
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It makes sense and I never thought about it this way.

The setup you described is nice and I do like it in bw, but I don't like killing ambient light. So basically I wanted to put 2 lights in manual at the back and stick 2 of them on my 2 cameras in ETTL for the fill. I wouldn't use f11 for these though.
I'm still trying to figure out which setup for the first dance I like most and I just can't decide. I also like one flash behind couple and something in front to brighten their face a little. One flash behind them creating silhouette is also cool.
Another idea would be to have 2 different setups on each camera. For example set up 2 lights at the back on 2 corners and have one speedlite on one camera set to ttl. Then put one speedlite on DJs table or somewhere in the centre to pretend it's part of DJs lighting and again add another speedlite on second camera. Both cameras would have transmitters fitted on top on 2 separate channels.
Have anyone done this and can give share their thoughts? Cheers
 
bucz said:
Another idea would be to have 2 different setups on each camera. For example set up 2 lights at the back on 2 corners and have one speedlite on one camera set to ttl. Then put one speedlite on DJs table or somewhere in the centre to pretend it's part of DJs lighting and again add another speedlite on second camera. Both cameras would have transmitters fitted on top on 2 separate channels.
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That sounds interesting for variety :)

But maybe that's a problem? I shoot whatever I use for 1st dance the same all the way through for continuity, I'm not sure having 3-5 different styles of shots would work on a page/spread in an album?

Defo try all you can I guess. I try to get a few good shots wide, then concentrate on closer almost H&S to show the connection between them. If you can shoot a cohesive range & that variety in a 3-4 mins song then go for it

Dave
 
bucz said:
It makes sense and I never thought about it this way.

The setup you described is nice and I do like it in bw, but I don't like killing ambient light. So basically I wanted to put 2 lights in manual at the back and stick 2 of them on my 2 cameras in ETTL for the fill. I wouldn't use f11 for these though.
I'm still trying to figure out which setup for the first dance I like most and I just can't decide. I also like one flash behind couple and something in front to brighten their face a little. One flash behind them creating silhouette is also cool.
Another idea would be to have 2 different setups on each camera. For example set up 2 lights at the back on 2 corners and have one speedlite on one camera set to ttl. Then put one speedlite on DJs table or somewhere in the centre to pretend it's part of DJs lighting and again add another speedlite on second camera. Both cameras would have transmitters fitted on top on 2 separate channels.
Have anyone done this and can give share their thoughts? Cheers
Click to expand...

Similar thoughts - different method, this is what I do for max versatility from min kit (2 cameras 3 flashguns).
With one Manual flash mounted amongst the DJ lights (though you could have 2 of the manual flashes and it'd be similar).
I have a std lens on main camera with flash trigger and I hand hold a flash, this gives me:
  • Starburst behind couple with a choice of how I light from front (bounced hand held)
  • Minimise the front light for a silhouette
  • Move round the dance floor and there's a darker background with a rim lit couple
  • Turn off the remote 'group' and I have maximum versatility with just my hand held flash
  • Use the other camera with a slightly longer lens and bounced flash for close ups.
Of course all that planning goes out of the window when the DJ invites everyone to share the first dance after 37 seconds :eek:
Unlike Dave I use a slightly different setup for the rest of the dancing and getting some evening atmosphere. So the 1st dance shots will either make their own spread or will share space with the evening 'walkabout' shots. The evening shots make their own spread.
 
DG Phototraining said:
???

I have NO IDEA what you're on about

1st dance ends, 30 secs later I'm gone :D

Dave
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Depending on the timings, the party, the couple etc we like to capture some of the evening atmosphere. Sometimes this will be all done before the 1st dance, sometimes a little after.
 
Phil V said:
Sometimes this will be all done before the 1st dance
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I can't recall anyone (other than granny & some kids) ever dancing prior to 1st dance and most of mine sod off straight afterwards too as that's when the buffet comes out; hence, other than shooting people stuffing their faces, I'm done :)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
I can't recall anyone (other than granny & some kids) ever dancing prior to 1st dance and most of mine sod off straight afterwards too as that's when the buffet comes out; hence, other than shooting people stuffing their faces, I'm done :)

Dave
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It is getting more common for the 1st dance to be followed instantly by the buffet (it used to only happen sometimes), and on those occasions - we're off.
 
I usually go with two gridded speedlights on stands in each corner at the back of the dance floor at something around 1/64 (or front if the band aren't playing the first song as Id rather see a backdrop of happy people than a band doing nothing and standing about). I have another speedlight on my camera in TTL that Ill bounce off the ceiling with the bounce card pulled up, all talking to each using 622 triggers. If I bounce the on camera flash I have some nice rim light and a well exposed couple but I also have the option of covering the on camera flash with my hand and just getting a nice rim light silhouette shot. I like to let plenty ambient in too and will often be up at around 1000 ISO. I dont bother changing cameras - a 24-70mm works for me and even if the dance only lasts 30 seconds before the rest of the party join I usually get the shots I need. On occasion, I've placed a little bit of tape on the dance floor before they start and politely asked the couple of they'll start from there so I can rattle off a few shots at the sweet spot before they start moving around,
 
windrunner said:
I usually go with two gridded speedlights on stands in each corner at the back of the dance floor at something around 1/64 (or front if the band aren't playing the first song as Id rather see a backdrop of happy people than a band doing nothing and standing about). I have another speedlight on my camera in TTL that Ill bounce off the ceiling with the bounce card pulled up, all talking to each using 622 triggers. If I bounce the on camera flash I have some nice rim light and a well exposed couple but I also have the option of covering the on camera flash with my hand and just getting a nice rim light silhouette shot. I like to let plenty ambient in too and will often be up at around 1000 ISO. I dont bother changing cameras - a 24-70mm works for me and even if the dance only lasts 30 seconds before the rest of the party join I usually get the shots I need. On occasion, I've placed a little bit of tape on the dance floor before they start and politely asked the couple of they'll start from there so I can rattle off a few shots at the sweet spot before they start moving around,
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That's exactly something I want to start doing. Will you share some sample photos with this setup? Have you tried adding a flash bender to use instead of bounce card? I wonder if this would improve it. It will be a little more difficult to cover the speedlite with your hand for the silhouette shots but you can always switch that one off.
 
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