speedlight softbox

keeweeman

keeweeman

Suspended / Banned
Messages
930
Name
Col
Edit My Images
Yes
Just wondering what the largest softbox people would recommend using with a speedlight is? I know Phil V often recommends the 24" version of the one in the link below, but since stock levels with that one are hit and miss (especially the kit that comes with the grid included) i am just wondering if going up to the 36" model would be ok when i get around to buying one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LZTL...TF8&colid=2NYU4G2TDXO47&coliid=I2SRB0R6SPKIX2

Cheers

Col
 
DG Phototraining said:
This is mine, though I don't recall paying that much it - it you want to use it out & about a folding one is a huge advantage IMO :)

http://www.essentialphoto.co.uk/pro...nal-easy-open-umbrella-softbox-with-4cm-grid/

Dave
Click to expand...
looks very good but that wasn't the question :LOL:. I am just trying to get a feel for now as to what the biggest size would be to use with a speedlight, i am relatively new to modifiers and appreciate i will definitely end up buying twice most likely but while i am learning and just playing with them i will most likely go for something like a neewer or godox to keep the costs down. That in itself goes against the grain for me as i hate buying cheap buying twice, but on this one i will have to just get over it due to money permitting etc!

FWIW those two shots you have posted really are lovely
 
keeweeman said:
looks very good but that wasn't the question :LOL:. I am just trying to get a feel for now as to what the biggest size would be to use with a speedlight, i am relatively new to modifiers and appreciate i will definitely end up buying twice most likely but while i am learning and just playing with them i will most likely go for something like a neewer or godox to keep the costs down. That in itself goes against the grain for me as i hate buying cheap buying twice, but on this one i will have to just get over it due to money permitting etc!

FWIW those two shots you have posted really are lovely
Click to expand...

It only doesn't answer the question as I forgot to add...

A good pal and portrait photographer of mine advised me that this is about as big as he'd go with a normal speedlight :D

Dave
 
Depends on the type of softbox (flash firing forward, or bounce), how even you want/need it to be, and how much power you need. A rear firing/bounce type softbox can be more even at larger sizes, but with a notable loss of max power... 4ft is easily doable if it's deep enough. If it has to be even and forward firing, then probably only around 2ft... which is a bit small to be useful as a softbox per-se, and it still won't be entirely even (well, nothing is likely to be completely even). If you can tolerate a bit more unevenness (and you likely can, it can even be useful) then something around 3ft is about max for a forward firing (double diffused) softbox IMO.
This is just a guesstimate, but a larger rear firing/bounce type is going to cost you at least 1-2 stops of max output compared to a smaller forward firing type.

The bigger question is what are you going to use it for, and how? If it's just for a bit of fill from a good distance then size doesn't really matter much at all. In which case "smaller" is just easier/cheaper, especially outdoors. There's nothing particularly "wrong/bad" about a bare speedlight in this case.
 
Last edited:
sk66 said:
Depends on the type of softbox (flash firing forward, or bounce), how even you want/need it to be, and how much power you need. A rear firing/bounce type softbox can be more even at larger sizes, but with a notable loss of max power... 4ft is easily doable if it's deep enough. If it has to be even and forward firing, then probably only around 2ft... which is a bit small to be useful as a softbox per-se, and it still won't be entirely even (well, nothing is likely to be completely even). If you can tolerate a bit more unevenness (and you likely can, it can even be useful) then something around 3ft is about max for a forward firing (double diffused) softbox IMO.
This is just a guesstimate, but a larger rear firing/bounce type is going to cost you at least 1-2 stops of max output compared to a smaller forward firing type.

The bigger question is what are you going to use it for, and how? If it's just for a bit of fill from a good distance then size doesn't really matter much at all. In which case "smaller" is just easier/cheaper, especially outdoors. There's nothing particularly "wrong/bad" about a bare speedlight in this case.
Click to expand...
Cheers Stephen, much appreciated for the reply. As a bit of a novice could you just clarify what you mean by front firing and rear firing please? I assume that when you say 4ft is easily doable etc you mean 4ft in size for the diffuser?
In terms of usage it would be generally for fill but i would also like to get a little more creative than my current kit allows with current kit being speedflash and brolly, so less controllable than something that focuses the light as a gridded softbox would.
 
bensherman2 said:
Hi Dave

What distance do you put the BD from the subject? Is it the diameter of the BD?
Click to expand...

You asked - What distance do you put the BD from the subject? - generally, its as close as I can get it but not have it in the shot; in this one it was probably about 10ft away as some shots were wider than this and I'm too lazy to move it for each focal length change lol

You asked - Is it the diameter of the BD? - by which I take it you mean the number 19" - and yes, 19" = 19 inches or about 48cm diameter. Big enough to become a decent sized light source, small enough to carry around city streets without hitting (too) many people :D

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
You asked - What distance do you put the BD from the subject? - generally, its as close as I can get it but not have it in the shot; in this one it was probably about 10ft away as some shots were wider than this and I'm too lazy to move it for each focal length change lol

You asked - Is it the diameter of the BD? - by which I take it you mean the number 19" - and yes, 19" = 19 inches or about 48cm diameter. Big enough to become a decent sized light source, small enough to carry around city streets without hitting (too) many people :D

Dave
Click to expand...

Cheers for the reply Dave.

That's what I meant if your BD is 24" then it should be 24" from the subject to hit the sweet spot. By the way I don't know if you do "tutorial lessons/sessions " but if you do I'll certainly travel up and be happy to pay for the privilege of your tutition.

Cheers

Matt
 
keeweeman said:
Cheers Stephen, much appreciated for the reply. As a bit of a novice could you just clarify what you mean by front firing and rear firing please? I assume that when you say 4ft is easily doable etc you mean 4ft in size for the diffuser?
In terms of usage it would be generally for fill but i would also like to get a little more creative than my current kit allows with current kit being speedflash and brolly, so less controllable than something that focuses the light as a gridded softbox would.
Click to expand...
Forward firing = Flash shoots towards the subject through the difusing panel
Rear firing = flashhead facing the rear of the soft box (away from the subject) like in a reflective umbrella. Light bounces of the internals before coming through the front panel.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
bensherman2 said:
By the way I don't know if you do "tutorial lessons/sessions " but if you do I'll certainly travel up and be happy to pay for the privilege of your tutition.
Click to expand...

That's nice of you to say, and yes I do run OCF training usually as 1-2-1s but sometimes as a Group 'fun' thing

I won't be doing any now until Sept though - just too busy :)

Dave
 
bensherman2 said:
Book me in for September then(y)
Click to expand...

lol - you'll have learnt it all before then :D

If you are vaguely serious let's move to a PM so I can see what you're after and where you are already, no point coming if you know enough really

I had a pal of mine, she's been a Pro longer than me, come up for an OCF training sess despite me trying to put her off as I kept telling her she knew enough just needed to practice; 20 mins into our 4 hour session she agreed I was right :D

I hate wasting people's time

Dave
 
bensherman2 said:
That's what I meant if your BD is 24" then it should be 24" from the subject to hit the sweet spot.
Click to expand...
Not exactly... it depends on how you're using the BD/for what purpose. If you put a sock on it then it's acting (more) like a softbox and should be w/in about 1x diameter if you want "softness," about 3x max for the diffusion to have any real effect... 1x (under 2ft) is painfully close for a strobe to be going off, and hard to work around.
If using it unmodified *as* a beauty dish, it will have a sweet spot distance depending upon many factors (needs testing to determine). My 22" silver is best at 5-6ft. But there are other characteristics of it's light that can be useful at other (shorter) distances. By about 7ft I might as well be using a bare speedlight.

Understanding the Beauty Dish
 
Last edited:
sk66 said:
Not exactly... it depends on how you're using the BD/for what purpose. If you put a sock on it then it's acting (more) like a softbox and should be w/in about 1x diameter if you want "softness," about 3x max for the diffusion to have any real effect... 1x (under 2ft) is painfully close for a strobe to be going off, and hard to work around.
If using it unmodified *as* a beauty dish, it will have a sweet spot distance depending upon many factors (needs testing to determine). My 22" silver is best at 5-6ft. But there are other characteristics of it's light that can be useful at other (shorter) distances. By about 7ft I might as well be using a bare speedlight.

Understanding the Beauty Dish
Click to expand...

Thank you for that Steven(y)
 
keeweeman said:
I assume that when you say 4ft is easily doable etc you mean 4ft in size for the diffuser?
In terms of usage it would be generally for fill but i would also like to get a little more creative than my current kit allows with current kit being speedflash and brolly, so less controllable than something that focuses the light as a gridded softbox would.
Click to expand...
Yes, 4ft diameter/diagonal size of softbox, but it has to be pretty deep. Which means bulky and a PITA outside with any wind/uneven terrain.

For just a little fill I would be inclined to use bare flash, especially outdoors and for "run and gun" type work. Most all of the finer characteristics of modified lighting will be overpowered by the main lighting. A softbox doesn't focus the light, and a grid is essentially just a bunch of barn doors/flags for the diffuser... it *reduces* the spread from the diffusion but it doesn't focus, and it can cost a little bit of light.

My personal opinion is that for "diffused light sources" they really need to be 3ft ,or preferably larger, to have any real usefulness (unless you're doing small product kind of work). And when you start getting to 3ft and above the speedlight isn't a great choice.
For "hard light sources," beauty dishes/reflectors/parabolic umbrellas/bare speedlights/fresnels/etc, the differences can be rather fine or even inconsequential. If you want to see a significant difference each one has to be used in a particular manner, otherwise they're all just "hard light."
 
Hmm i find my 60cm octa pretty good for head/torso size portraits. It all comes down to relative size
 
Last edited by a moderator:
keeweeman said:
Just wondering what the largest softbox people would recommend using with a speedlight is? I know Phil V often recommends the 24" version of the one in the link below, but since stock levels with that one are hit and miss (especially the kit that comes with the grid included) i am just wondering if going up to the 36" model would be ok when i get around to buying one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LZTL...TF8&colid=2NYU4G2TDXO47&coliid=I2SRB0R6SPKIX2

Cheers

Col
Click to expand...

If you need the look of the larger soft box take a look at more powerful light. I'm having great results with godox ad200 which is about 3 speedlights' power and also ad600 which is about 10 speedlights' worth afaik.
 
keeweeman said:
Just wondering what the largest softbox people would recommend using with a speedlight is? I know Phil V often recommends the 24" version of the one in the link below, but since stock levels with that one are hit and miss (especially the kit that comes with the grid included) i am just wondering if going up to the 36" model would be ok when i get around to buying one?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LZTL...TF8&colid=2NYU4G2TDXO47&coliid=I2SRB0R6SPKIX2

Cheers

Col
Click to expand...
I generally recommend the 80cm one, with caveats:
It's far from 80cm in reality
It's rarely available with the grid
I retrofitted a grid to mine and rarely use it.

I think in a studio setting you could get a bigger one to work, there was a discussion recently about filling a softbox, I haven't experimented but I might at some point, it seems that everyone's results are more subjective than you'd think they'd be.
 
Omg. If I were reading this not knowing anything at all about speedlights I would be overwhelmed by the technicalities of the replies. Not that I know that much and i very much doubt someone of my ability would be able to tell the differences in light from some of the lighting scenarios listed above. Off my limited experience the 24 or 36 would be fine. I also have the 80 cm one which I think Phil put me onto at some point grid came with it. Which works well with my speedlight.

Gaz
 
Last edited:
Cheers Phil, by far from 80cm i assume that means it is smaller and not larger?

Cargo, i agree over the technicalities but one thing that i like on here is that so long as you don't throw advice back in people's faces normally they will explain what they mean if you ask. Great way to learn imo
 
sk66 said:
Yes, 4ft diameter/diagonal size of softbox, but it has to be pretty deep. Which means bulky and a PITA outside with any wind/uneven terrain.

For just a little fill I would be inclined to use bare flash, especially outdoors and for "run and gun" type work. Most all of the finer characteristics of modified lighting will be overpowered by the main lighting. A softbox doesn't focus the light, and a grid is essentially just a bunch of barn doors/flags for the diffuser... it *reduces* the spread from the diffusion but it doesn't focus, and it can cost a little bit of light.

My personal opinion is that for "diffused light sources" they really need to be 3ft ,or preferably larger, to have any real usefulness (unless you're doing small product kind of work). And when you start getting to 3ft and above the speedlight isn't a great choice.
For "hard light sources," beauty dishes/reflectors/parabolic umbrellas/bare speedlights/fresnels/etc, the differences can be rather fine or even inconsequential. If you want to see a significant difference each one has to be used in a particular manner, otherwise they're all just "hard light."
Click to expand...
Cheers for clarifying, that all makes sense now ta :)
 
soeren said:
Hmm i find my 60cm octa pretty good for head/torso size portraits. It all comes down to relative size
Click to expand...
Yes, for diffused light sources it's about relative size... and ideally all three measures should be approx. equal. I.e. a head/shoulder shot which is ~ 2ft in area can be lit well with a 2ft softbox used from no more than 2ft away (but closer is good). From about 3ft-6ft away you will still get "some effect" from the diffusion, but it becomes exponentially less. By about 8-10ft the softbox becomes entirely pointless and is only eating batteries.

I personally think that 2ft is too short of a working distance most of the time which is why I prefer larger modifiers, but they are a massive PITA outdoors; especially if working alone. But if used for fill the diffusion/characteristics matter much less so you can get away with much smaller modifiers, even bare.

If you have assistance, one of the best ways to work outdoors (IMO) is to use bare lights on stands and silks (diffusion screens) held by the VAL as needed. There's much less issues with needing bigger/heavier stands/weights/stakes/etc to keep your lights from blowing over.
 
Last edited:
newbie1 said:
If you need the look of the larger soft box take a look at more powerful light. I'm having great results with godox ad200 which is about 3 speedlights' power and also ad600 which is about 10 speedlights' worth afaik.
Click to expand...
I'm loving the AD200... I think it's about perfect for most location work.
 
sk66 said:
Yes, for diffused light sources it's about relative size... and ideally all three measures should be approx. equal. I.e. a head/shoulder shot which is ~ 2ft in area can be lit well with a 2ft softbox used from no more than 2ft away. From about 3ft-6ft away you will still get "some effect" from the diffusion, but it becomes exponentially less. By about 8-10ft the softbox becomes entirely pointless and is only eating batteries.

I personally think that 2ft is too short of a working distance most of the time which is why I prefer larger modifiers, but they are a massive PITA outdoors; especially if working alone. But if used for fill the diffusion/characteristics matter much less so you can get away with much smaller modifiers, even bare.

If you have assistance, one of the best ways to work outdoors (IMO) is to use bare lights on stands and silks (diffusion screens) held by the VAL as needed. There's much less issues with needing bigger/heavier stands/weights/stakes/etc to keep your lights from blowing over.
Click to expand...
Re 2ft being to short of a working distance. Due to light falloff?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
soeren said:
Re 2ft being to short of a working distance. Due to light falloff?
Click to expand...
No, because having a strobe go off right in your face is annoying. It's also kind of "imposing" and uncomfortable to have stuff that close for someone not accustomed to it (i.e. clients/non-models)... it's probably a "personal space" type of issue. And because it's hard to work around/keep it out of the shot.
 
sk66 said:
No, because having a strobe go off right in your face is annoying. It's also kind of "imposing" and uncomfortable to have stuff that close for someone not accustomed to it (i.e. clients/non-models)... it's probably a "personal space" type of issue. And because it's hard to work around/keep it out of the shot.
Click to expand...
Hmm I dont see the difference between an f8 flash from a 60cm octa and a f8 flash from a 120cm octa from the "equal relative size distance" maybe except the noice. As for the rest, that might be things worth taking into account.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
soeren said:
Hmm I dont see the difference between an f8 flash from a 60cm octa and a f8 flash from a 120cm octa from the "equal relative size distance" maybe except the noice. As for the rest, that might be things worth taking into account.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't see a difference in softness, but the 120cm octa will be farther away (which is why it looks the same) and it will cover a larger area. Or, you can move it closer to the 60cm distance and get much more dramatic lighting... something that's not really an option with the smaller softbox.
 
Last edited:
I meant from the sitters point of view. I dont find the flash more anoing cmose up than from further away the exposure being the same. The debth of flash due to ISL is ofcource different hence my first question re the 2ft.......
 
Last edited by a moderator:
soeren said:
I meant from the sitters point of view. I dont find the flash more anoing cmose up than from further away the exposure being the same. The debth of flash due to ISL is ofcource different hence my first question re the 2ft.......
Click to expand...
IME having a softbox 2ft from your head is more bothersome than having one farther away, even if the light is the same... but some are more comfortable with it.
Yes, falloff is a function of distance, and softness is a function of (relative) size. Which is why you can't really just move a smaller softbox closer in order to make it "larger/softer," because it also affects the falloff which is a very significant factor in how the image looks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top