"Speeding" on country roads

pjm1

pjm1

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Ok, a frustrating incident happened during the weekend. I was coming back from a long couple of days on the mountains. I live in the countryside and I'm driving along on one of the "better" country roads about 5 miles from home. It's a single carriageway (i.e. cars can pass each other in both directions) rather than a single track road - of which there are quite a few, but it's not an A road by any stretch.

The road is quite twisty and it has been wet, so I'm doing about 40. I turn a corner and ahead are two riders on horses so I immediately brake. The lead rider in a fluorescent vest waves the "slow down" arm sign which I'm already doing and I come to a complete stop well before I reach them. By this time, though, her horse has reared up - she seems to have it under control pretty quickly but I'm guessing it's a slightly skittish horse. The other horse/rider was fine.

She rides over and starts giving me dogs' abuse about speeding on a country road. I'm pretty shocked - I was going slow enough to stop before I got to them and, in my eyes, roads are for all users whether they be pedestrians, cycles, riders or motorists - but let's be honest, the most common users are motorists and everyone has to expect that. Given the speed limit was 60, I felt that driving at 40 was appropriate to the conditions and was proved to be the case by the fact I stopped comfortably.

I'll confess I lost my rag a bit with her, which I'm not proud of, but I felt that if you're not able to control your horse on the public road, you shouldn't take it there.

I'm all in favour of sharing the roads and making them safe for everyone. But that has to work both ways. Also, I don't really have the ability to take my car off the road onto a field to get where I want to go - they do (as do walkers... and as one I'll often choose this rather than be on the road).

Does anyone think my actions were bad/wrong? Should I have apologised for driving at an appropriate speed for the road, but perhaps not for their horses? I'm genuinely not sure what I would do differently next time... I'm not convinced it's reasonable to expect me to drive around at 30 mph just in case there's a skittish horse further up the road. Incidentally, my car has a reasonably loud engine so they will have heard me coming... which may also have led to them assuming I was going faster than I was.
 
pjm1 said:
I turn a corner and ahead are two riders on horses so I immediately brake. The lead rider in a fluorescent vest waves the "slow down" arm sign which I'm already doing and I come to a complete stop well before I reach them. By this time, though, her horse has reared up - she seems to have it under control pretty quickly but I'm guessing it's a slightly skittish horse. The other horse/rider was fine.
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I think it depends on the definition of "well before i reach them". If you were well away from them and it's simply the car noise from a distance and the rider flapping about in a panic that has spooked the horse then i don't see what you could of really done much different.
 
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I'm on the fence a little here, I feel sorry for horse riders some what. In some cases they have no choice but to use busy roads to get to/from bridleways etc.

It could be the case that she'd already been buzzed at speed by other motorists before you arrived on scene and her horse was already spooked. It's tricky to pass judgement. You may not have done anything wrong yourself (we'll take your word for it :p ).

However you can and do get bad horse riders just as you get bad motorists, cyclists, pedestrians etc.
 
I've had riders try to knock me off my bike as I trickle past and that's after I've hit the kill switch and gone into neutral. Also had a trap driver whip the roof of my car as I (again) trickled past. Horses on roads are an anachronism and a PITA, especially when the riders show behaviours like the above. Even worse on FOOTpaths when there's a bridleway that takes them from the same A to the same B as the footpath does. Had a rider try to get her horse to ride me down on a footpath so complained to the livery stable.
 
Had the same driving the TVR. Stopped well before the horses, like 80 yards, left the car idling rather than drive past in case the noise spooked them.
Got a mouthful from two women riding abreast on a busy road, that I was racing about. I just politely pointed out the error of their ways, took a photo of them paired up in the middle of the road, blocking it whilst talking to me, and wrote a polite letter to the stables.
 
You can't really control horses around cars they don't have knobs and levers, you stopped and did the right thing.
losing your rag well you should have just said jog off and let them go.

where I live in Yorkshire lots of snobs on horses, lifes to short just let em move on.

horse owners get arsey because if the horse throws its rider or does damage its next to impossible to prove 3rd party problems so they take it all on their insurance and get their necks bust when they tumble off.
 
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KitsuneAndy said:
If it's anything like a friends TVR, did you leave it idling in case it spooked them? Or in case it didn't start again?
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It's quiet at idle, around 88db. Most reliable vehicle I own.
Have I mentioned my 3 year old Mazda 6 has just had mostly a new diesel engine under warranty as they had a known fault that the camshafts disintegrated at around 30K miles on a batch of engines? Puts debris into the oil, which wrecks the top end, heads, turbo, brake servo, lots of warning lights, degraded braking and a car that won't run unless it's over 2500 revs when the turbo works. Local garage has done around 40 engines in the last 7 months
 
I live in a village South of Bath and it's nice to use the 'back roads' to get back to the house, particularly as the main A Road can get very busy and slow.

Over the past 18 years the back roads are busier with horse/pony riders at tbe weekends so the interface can be challenging.

I can undeestand you rising to to riders attitude and have been there myself on a few occassions over the years.

I don't think it is an easy one to state one or other is right/wrong. You know you were driving carefully, able to slow and stop in a safe and comfortable distsnce but the horse rider's perception was different.

I got to a point where I let the other person blow off steam but, unless I have done 'wrong' , I don't apologise and neither do I get angry. (Easier said than done when the other person loses it). I think you can gain the high ground (albeit in your own head) by remaining calm.

FAor me, now I am finslly getting back to driving after an extended perion off the road, I intend to resume my 'no confrontation' mode. When all is said and done, life is just too short and the moment is just another in the scheme of things.

In summary, you were not speexing or being reckless, you live in the countryside, things can happen, as sadly the do in cities as well as the countryside (the death rate of cyclists in London is beyond ridiculous).

Life is just too short to 'burn up' with trivia. Over the past 18 years my biggest issues whilst driving has been with feral deer. 2 collisions with airborne deer, 2 heavily damaged cars, no human injury, venison burger time!
 
A very common problem near our farm in North Yorkshire, with narrow twisting roads and riders who can't ride...
It's difficult for the horses, they are predated animals and they naturally fear anything that moves quickly, anything that they don't understand and anything big, so as motorists it's a very good idea to give them every consideration and to stop, with the engine switched off, if they look at all worried.

But I have far less sympathy for most of the riders, if they can't ride then they shouldn't take their horses on the road.
 
Good points pretty much across the board.

I say I lost my rag, but it was more a case of shouting back at her that the roads are for cars as well when she started to get aggressive!

I'll be honest and say at least with horses you stand a chance of seeing them over the hedgerows - it's the cyclists who are just that little bit too low to spot that you have to keep your speed down for - especially when they take the centre of the road because of potholes etc.

Basically, the country roads are for all users and it's about being responsible on them. It's just frustrating when someone accuses you of not doing that! As someone said, it may well have been because they were buzzed a few minutes earlier and heard my car so assumed it was about to happen again...
 
neil_g said:
i wish some people would follow that logic with cars to be fair :D
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However, as there is no legal requirements to report an equine related accident unless there's a human injury, there no need to report a horse death or vehicle damage. The British Horse society believes there are around 3000 horse related accidents a year. What is recordd in figures is 104 reported accidents, some serious and also a death.

BHS believe there are 3 million horse riders in the uk, and run riding and road safety tests which around 4000 riders take each year. Rosa recommend that riders take training and the test before riding on the road. This isn't many compared to the number of riders

As such, there's responsibility for all users of the road to be aware, and surely part of it must be choice of roads to ride on and times. There must be some consideration to the risks of riding on busy roads.

Around our way we have rider on footpaths, cycle ways, in residential roads, often leaving significant piles of horse poo. It's not just arrogant road users, but riders also. Do you know what, they are both operated by people, just the vehicle is different. For every arrogant driver, there's usually an equally arrogant rider. Human nature though isn't it.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
If it's anything like a friends TVR, did you leave it idling in case it spooked them? Or in case it didn't start again?
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Someone on here has a TVR that he told me stalls when he turns the headlights on at idle :D (420 SEAC - that's the car, not the username).

Since my toy cars are used for motorsport, they are silenced so they don't fail "environmental scrutineering" (noise testing) at events, so no 88db at idle. The wonderful engine howl comes at high (8000+) revs under load. Even so, the trials car gets switched off during trials if I meet equines on country roads and I wait for them to pass. Common courtesy, even though it's an Imp so may break down, refuse to restart or boil over at any moment :p .
 
I'm sorry but I can't stand horses on the road, especially when they are 2 abreast or in a pack. If a horse is easily spooked by cars, don't ride it on the road. I know horses were on the road before cars, but things have moved on a surely from a safety point of view it can't continue. I think the OP was reasonable in what he says, 40 mph in a 60 is responsible in that situation and I think it was the horse roders who were out of order.
 
Byker28i said:
However, as there is no legal requirements to report an equine related accident unless there's a human injury, there no need to report a horse death or vehicle damage. The British Horse society believes there are around 3000 horse related accidents a year. What is recordd in figures is 104 reported accidents, some serious and also a death.

BHS believe there are 3 million horse riders in the uk, and run riding and road safety tests which around 4000 riders take each year. Rosa recommend that riders take training and the test before riding on the road. This isn't many compared to the number of riders

As such, there's responsibility for all users of the road to be aware, and surely part of it must be choice of roads to ride on and times. There must be some consideration to the risks of riding on busy roads.

Around our way we have rider on footpaths, cycle ways, in residential roads, often leaving significant piles of horse poo. It's not just arrogant road users, but riders also. Do you know what, they are both operated by people, just the vehicle is different. For every arrogant driver, there's usually an equally arrogant rider. Human nature though isn't it.
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like i say there are "bad eggs" in all road users. the car user comment was more as a result of commuting to-from work in my car than anything else.

that aside..

unfortunately like i say some times there is no choice but to ride on what can be busy road. my other half (who rides) would agree with there being some people who should not be on the road on horse. for example we came across someone spooking in the road the other day because their horse "did not like red cars". that said she's also had her fair share of idiot motorists, one including a 4x4 who sped up behind her on a narrow lane reving their engine and then mounting the grass verge to squeeze by before speeding off. they got the number plate and the police put them on record for future reference.

people across all groups need to get out of the "us vs them" mindset. ultimately like it or not everyone has equal right to use the road and the sooner we all learn to deal with each other politely and courteously the better.
 
pjm1 said:
It's just frustrating when someone accuses you of not doing that!
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Picture this, a country road, plenty wide enough for horses and vehicles to pass comfortably,
I was driving a small fuel tanker ( rigid). In the distance, I saw horses approaching so slowed to a crawl, to avoid stopping ( that will become obvious in a minute)
By the arm gestures and the animated facial expressions it was obvious she was demanding that I stopped.

My ex ( an avid rider) told me once that the hiss of air brakes, sounds like a snake to a horse, and that is the only thing that they are truly scared of,
well that is, apart from things they learn later like carrier bags and the hob goblins that live in hedgerows,
that are just waiting to "attack" at every possible moment.

So I had no choice but to stop as she had asked "so nicely" At least, it only took her a minute or two to get the horse back under control,
where as before the horses ( there were two) were approaching the truck calm and collected.
 
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onomatopoeia said:
Someone on here has a TVR that he told me stalls when he turns the headlights on at idle :D (420 SEAC - that's the car, not the username).

Since my toy cars are used for motorsport, they are silenced so they don't fail "environmental scrutineering" (noise testing) at events, so no 88db at idle. The wonderful engine howl comes at high (8000+) revs under load. Even so, the trials car gets switched off during trials if I meet equines on country roads and I wait for them to pass. Common courtesy, even though it's an Imp so may break down, refuse to restart or boil over at any moment :p .
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TVR electrics are miraculous devices, (some say it's a miracle if all working ). Realistically it's poor connections that need sorting or cleaning and so can be very reliable.
LOL Imps are manic little things, we used to thrash one around Castle Coombe 30 years ago :)
 
I usually find most rider courteous and give a friendly wave when I pass slowly.

Slightly off topic, its not the speeding drivers on country roads that bother me but rather those who crawl along doing about 25 and stop whenever oncoming vehicles appear. Its not that I mind them going slow, I can account for that keep my distance, but coming to a standstill every two minutes, even when there is plenty of room for two vehicles to pass, I find that frustrating. I live in a semi rural area, lots of country roads about, most are national speed limit, and many link into residential streets. I invariably find those doing 20-25 on the national speed limit suddenly speed up to 40+ when they hit the straight road with a 30 mph limit.
 
Likewise Steve - this was the first time I've ever met an angry rider. As is usually my luck, I'll meet the horses on one of the single-track roads, meaning I have to reverse back to a passing place to let them pass. Ironic that I got into trouble on a more normal road!

And yes, dawdling drivers can cause accidents as other road users' frustrations cause them to do risky things!
 
pjm1 said:
The road is quite twisty and it has been wet, so I'm doing about 40. I turn a corner and ahead are two riders on horses so I immediately brake.
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I think everything that needs to be said is there.
On a wet twisty country lane that you cant see round the corners yes 40mph is too fast. I drive to work everyday down lanes and know that round every corner lurks potential trouble.
If ever you see a horse or cow hit by a car you'll know exactly why you should drive within your limits down a lane. 40 mph is quite quick despite what you may think when you are sat in a sound proofed box. If you are sat on a horse and a car comes round a corner at 40mph you would feel threatened too!
 
jakeblu said:
I usually find most rider courteous and give a friendly wave when I pass slowly.

Slightly off topic, its not the speeding drivers on country roads that bother me but rather those who crawl along doing about 25 and stop whenever oncoming vehicles appear. Its not that I mind them going slow, I can account for that keep my distance, but coming to a standstill every two minutes, even when there is plenty of room for two vehicles to pass, I find that frustrating. I live in a semi rural area, lots of country roads about, most are national speed limit, and many link into residential streets. I invariably find those doing 20-25 on the national speed limit suddenly speed up to 40+ when they hit the straight road with a 30 mph limit.
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If you are talking about the type of country road road where it's single lane but with room to pass (ie NO painted line in the centre) then I'd say people SHOULD slow down to pass other oncoming cars if there are only a couple of feet clearance at the point of passing - these types of road often have uneven surfaces and it is not very nice to have an oncoming vehicle pass very close at speed.
 
Overexposed said:
I think everything that needs to be said is there.
On a wet twisty country lane that you cant see round the corners yes 40mph is too fast. I drive to work everyday down lanes and know that round every corner lurks potential trouble.
If ever you see a horse or cow hit by a car you'll know exactly why you should drive within your limits down a lane. 40 mph is quite quick despite what you may think when you are sat in a sound proofed box. If you are sat on a horse and a car comes round a corner at 40mph you would feel threatened too!
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spot on !

I also live in the booneys and 40mph on some bendies is way to quick.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Someone on here has a TVR that he told me stalls when he turns the headlights on at idle :D (420 SEAC - that's the car, not the username).

Since my toy cars are used for motorsport, they are silenced so they don't fail "environmental scrutineering" (noise testing) at events, so no 88db at idle. The wonderful engine howl comes at high (8000+) revs under load. Even so, the trials car gets switched off during trials if I meet equines on country roads and I wait for them to pass. Common courtesy, even though it's an Imp so may break down, refuse to restart or boil over at any moment :p .
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My mate went to France and it wouldn't start to get it off the Eurostar lol
 
KitsuneAndy said:
My mate went to France and it wouldn't start to get it off the Eurostar lol
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Not an issue and not a pecific TVR issue I'd guess. You do need to be put downstairs because of the ramp

Since it's a photo site - last trip last year - we took 9? over without issues.
160879784.jpg
 
pjm1 said:
And yes, dawdling drivers can cause accidents as other road users' frustrations cause them to do risky things!
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Aint that the truth?
The other morning, approx 05.30, travelling down a long straight road national speed limit, I caught up with the car in front, who then raced off.
2 minutes later I caught him up again, he then raced off
Although I was sticking to 60 "his" erratic speeds It soon became obvious, every time something approached from the opposite direction,
he'd brake and slow right down, and stick to about 35 / 40 mph until there were no further headlights in the distance, and off he'd go again :rolleyes:

Obviously I couldn't overtake into the face of on coming traffic, when at his slowest, and the 4x4 isn't exactly a rocket sled on rails either,
but eventually after about 10 miles an opportunity presented itself, in the form of an additional short over taking lane.
I was glad to see the back ( figuratively speaking) of him, that's for sure!
 
Overexposed said:
I think everything that needs to be said is there.
On a wet twisty country lane that you cant see round the corners yes 40mph is too fast. I drive to work everyday down lanes and know that round every corner lurks potential trouble.
If ever you see a horse or cow hit by a car you'll know exactly why you should drive within your limits down a lane. 40 mph is quite quick despite what you may think when you are sat in a sound proofed box. If you are sat on a horse and a car comes round a corner at 40mph you would feel threatened too!
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Without wanting to get into an argument about it, I'm interested to find out how you know this, definitively? I'm assuming you don't actually know the road I mean and you therefore don't know how tight those corners actually are and how far into them I could see?

As I said, I'm not wanting an argument, just views - so I do appreciate yours, even if they're based on assumptions which might not be correct.

As stated in the OP, it was actually a "quite twisty" road, nothing like 90 degree bends let alone hairpins and certainly not a "lane" (we do have plenty of those). Until the final 1/2 mile or so (when it is very twisty), it's a long series of bends and some mild rollers. Had the horses been any closer to the bend than they were, I'd have seen them earlier and would have been on the brakes earlier. I reckon it pretty much nets out and my judgement (having actually been there at the time) was my speed was safe for the road and the conditions - bear in mind it was 40 as I exited the bend, so it will have been lower on entry and through the bend. As it happened, as soon as they did appear, I applied the brakes (without stamping on them) and came to a complete stop comfortably. To me, that 100% confirms the speed (even my higher exit speed) was appropriate.

When I'm driving, I always drive as if there could be an obstruction ahead if I can't see the road - and moderate my speed accordingly - because all too often there is. We have some fantastic driving roads here in Scotland, but there are a lot where you can't safely travel anywhere near the notional "speed limit", especially when it's invariably raining. That's fine, because if I want a "blat" then I only have to drive 10 miles to find some amazing open roads. I simply don't need to do it here.

I reckon 1 time out of 10 when I'm driving on the roads and lanes here I come across either cows or sheep being crossed from one field to another at some point during my journey and obviously have to stop. Sometimes it happens more than once on a journey. It's part and parcel of living in the country, so do I career round like a reckless teenager who's just passed his test? No. I have a wife and kids who I do like to go home to... which was what I was trying to do, incidentally :)
 
Cobra said:
Aint that the truth?
The other morning, approx 05.30, travelling down a long straight road national speed limit, I caught up with the car in front, who then raced off.
2 minutes later I caught him up again, he then raced off
Although I was sticking to 60 "his" erratic speeds It soon became obvious, every time something approached from the opposite direction,
he'd brake and slow right down, and stick to about 35 / 40 mph until there were no further headlights in the distance, and off he'd go again :rolleyes:

Obviously I couldn't overtake into the face of on coming traffic, when at his slowest, and the 4x4 isn't exactly a rocket sled on rails either,
but eventually after about 10 miles an opportunity presented itself, in the form of an additional short over taking lane.
I was glad to see the back ( figuratively speaking) of him, that's for sure!
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Annoying as hell when driving, 'cruise control on' moving up to overtake somebody and they speed up, move back in behind them, 30 seconds later have to move again as they've slowed right down. Annoying as hell
 
neil_g said:
Just to balance things out a little, this has been doing the rounds online recently it shows why some riders get frustrated with motorists.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154034462994363
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Same thing happened to me a number of years back (ironically, it was a horse box). Whilst my horse was initially fine, the horse behind got spooked and kicked mine who went up and the next thing I saw was my feet and the shy followed by my back hitting the deck

Mr Bump said:
horse owners get arsey because if the horse throws its rider or does damage its next to impossible to prove 3rd party problems so they take it all on their insurance and get their necks bust when they tumble off.
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No, they mostly get arsey because people, and horses, get hurt

Cobra said:
the hiss of air brakes, sounds like a snake to a horse, and that is the only thing that they are truly scared of,
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And green plastic chairs IME. :D

jakeblu said:
I usually find most rider courteous and give a friendly wave when I pass slowly
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This ^^^

There are arseholes using all types of transportation but they are in a very small minority IME.

Sarg0r said:
I'm sorry but I can't stand horses on the road, especially when they are 2 abreast or in a pack. If a horse is easily spooked by cars, don't ride it on the road. I know horses were on the road before cars, but things have moved on a surely from a safety point of view it can't continue. I think the OP was reasonable in what he says, 40 mph in a 60 is responsible in that situation and I think it was the horse roders who were out of order.
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As Neil said above, horses need to use the roads in order to access bridal ways. If common sense is used, there's no issues as far as safety is concerned.

As far as the OP is concerned, there's no way of knowing what actually happened as we weren't there and don't know the road. It could be that he was going a bit too quick for the conditions. I must ask, if he had stopped comfortably a good distance behind the horses, how did the rider know? On the other hand, the rider could've overreacted but given a lot of riders' experiences on the roads (I've experienced it 1st had as above and from my wife who still rides), it may be understandable.
 
fabs said:
As far as the OP is concerned, there's no way of knowing what actually happened as we weren't there and don't know the road. It could be that he was going a bit too quick for the conditions. I must ask, if he had stopped comfortably a good distance behind the horses, how did the rider know? On the other hand, the rider could've overreacted but given a lot of riders' experiences on the roads (I've experienced it 1st had as above and from my wife who still rides), it may be understandable.
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The horses were coming towards me, on the other side of the road. So they would have seen me exiting the bend at the same time I saw them. There would have been room for me to pass them even with them travelling two abreast, but I always stop for horses or at the very least slow to a <5mph crawl.

The horses were about here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/55.9061526,-4.5336117//@55.9080831,-4.5405103,16z (where it says Unnamed road) travelling NE, I was heading SW, having just come out of that bend (actually more of a kink now I look at it) before.
 
pjm1 said:
The horses were coming towards me, on the other side of the road. So they would have seen me exiting the bend at the same time I saw them. There would have been room for me to pass them even with them travelling two abreast, but I always stop for horses or at the very least slow to a <5mph crawl.

The horses were about here: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/55.9061526,-4.5336117//@55.9080831,-4.5405103,16z (where it says Unnamed road) travelling NE, I was heading SW, having just come out of that bend (actually more of a kink now I look at it) before.
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Apologies, by the time I'd finished replying to the other posts, I'd thought that you were behind them.

It does look like she may have overreacted but you never know how the car before you behaved so it could be that she was just taking out her frustrations on you. Not say it's right though.
 
fabs said:
Apologies, by the time I'd finished replying to the other posts, I'd thought that you were behind them.

It does look like she may have overreacted but you never know how the car before you behaved so it could be that she was just taking out her frustrations on you. Not say it's right though.
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No problems - and no need for any apologies (unless you were riding the horse that is ;))

Funnily enough, I was actually pretty knackered and wasn't remotely in the mood for any "spirited driving"... I think you're right that she had probably had a bad experience either just before coming across me, or relatively recently. She certainly seemed very highly strung!

The only thing which disappointed me was that I rose to it and answered back at all. Normally I'd have just shrugged and driven off. Downside of being tired and grumpy!
 
pjm1 said:
Ok, a frustrating incident happened during the weekend. I was coming back from a long couple of days on the mountains. I live in the countryside and I'm driving along on one of the "better" country roads about 5 miles from home. It's a single carriageway (i.e. cars can pass each other in both directions) rather than a single track road - of which there are quite a few, but it's not an A road by any stretch.

The road is quite twisty and it has been wet, so I'm doing about 40. I turn a corner and ahead are two riders on horses so I immediately brake. The lead rider in a fluorescent vest waves the "slow down" arm sign which I'm already doing and I come to a complete stop well before I reach them. By this time, though, her horse has reared up - she seems to have it under control pretty quickly but I'm guessing it's a slightly skittish horse. The other horse/rider was fine.

She rides over and starts giving me dogs' abuse about speeding on a country road. I'm pretty shocked - I was going slow enough to stop before I got to them and, in my eyes, roads are for all users whether they be pedestrians, cycles, riders or motorists - but let's be honest, the most common users are motorists and everyone has to expect that. Given the speed limit was 60, I felt that driving at 40 was appropriate to the conditions and was proved to be the case by the fact I stopped comfortably.

I'll confess I lost my rag a bit with her, which I'm not proud of, but I felt that if you're not able to control your horse on the public road, you shouldn't take it there.

I'm all in favour of sharing the roads and making them safe for everyone. But that has to work both ways. Also, I don't really have the ability to take my car off the road onto a field to get where I want to go - they do (as do walkers... and as one I'll often choose this rather than be on the road).

Does anyone think my actions were bad/wrong? Should I have apologised for driving at an appropriate speed for the road, but perhaps not for their horses? I'm genuinely not sure what I would do differently next time... I'm not convinced it's reasonable to expect me to drive around at 30 mph just in case there's a skittish horse further up the road. Incidentally, my car has a reasonably loud engine so they will have heard me coming... which may also have led to them assuming I was going faster than I was.
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You stopped in the distance you could see to be clear and that was a result of your deliberately lowered speed.

In my eyes, you did nothing wrong and I completely understand you telling the rider some home truths!
 
pjm1 said:
Without wanting to get into an argument about it, I'm interested to find out how you know this, definitively? I'm assuming you don't actually know the road I mean and you therefore don't know how tight those corners actually are and how far into them I could see?

As I said, I'm not wanting an argument, just views - so I do appreciate yours, even if they're based on assumptions which might not be correct.

As stated in the OP, it was actually a "quite twisty" road, nothing like 90 degree bends let alone hairpins and certainly not a "lane" (we do have plenty of those). Until the final 1/2 mile or so (when it is very twisty), it's a long series of bends and some mild rollers. Had the horses been any closer to the bend than they were, I'd have seen them earlier and would have been on the brakes earlier. I reckon it pretty much nets out and my judgement (having actually been there at the time) was my speed was safe for the road and the conditions - bear in mind it was 40 as I exited the bend, so it will have been lower on entry and through the bend. As it happened, as soon as they did appear, I applied the brakes (without stamping on them) and came to a complete stop comfortably. To me, that 100% confirms the speed (even my higher exit speed) was appropriate.

When I'm driving, I always drive as if there could be an obstruction ahead if I can't see the road - and moderate my speed accordingly - because all too often there is. We have some fantastic driving roads here in Scotland, but there are a lot where you can't safely travel anywhere near the notional "speed limit", especially when it's invariably raining. That's fine, because if I want a "blat" then I only have to drive 10 miles to find some amazing open roads. I simply don't need to do it here.

I reckon 1 time out of 10 when I'm driving on the roads and lanes here I come across either cows or sheep being crossed from one field to another at some point during my journey and obviously have to stop. Sometimes it happens more than once on a journey. It's part and parcel of living in the country, so do I career round like a reckless teenager who's just passed his test? No. I have a wife and kids who I do like to go home to... which was what I was trying to do, incidentally :)
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I'm not looking for an Argument either - you asked for an opinion which I gave!
At then of the day its a rural road with unsighted bends - you mention being 'on the brakes', exiting a corner at 40 mph - if you were exiting the bend at 40 mph presumably your entry speed was higher? My point is that a rural road is a rural road with other users on it - animals tractors and sometimes very unexpected obstructions - I drive these type of roads everyday, and i've seen appalling driving and accidents caused including a horse knocked down which had to be put down which believe me was horrendous. I also agree some horse riders can be overprotective and sometimes bloody awkward but they've a right to be there too. My mantra is simple ,drive defensively down rural roads! You don't need to be ' on the brakes' or exiting corners at 40 mph. You stopped in time - great but wouldn't t have been easier to stop comfortably and ease past respecting the fact its an animal you are going past not a machine? At the end of the day you can drive however you want . I'm sure you do want to get back to your wife and kids but remember too that to a horse rider you being able to stop is different to just easing past and not potentially spooking what they are riding.
 
I've not read all the posts here and the original post sounds an unfortunate incident. The trouble with horses is they are flight animals and all sorts of things can spook them. It might not have been the approaching car as the horse might have seen something through the hedge or whatever.

A flapping, fluorescent arm asking you to slow down won't help keep a horse calm either lol - and that could easily have been the reason for the rearing!

Best course of action? For BOTH of you to say sorry to each other. Things like this happen on the roads.

In the supermarket, if I bump my trolley into the old dear's trolley in the aisle by mistake and make her grab the handle a little tighter, she doesn't swear at me and I don't tell her she's a silly old bag who shouldn't have moved her trolley. We apologise to each other. If only more of us - car drivers, horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians, white van man and so on - if only more of us were rather more polite to each other on the roads.
 
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