Sorry, Dumbass Basic Question...

68lbs

68lbs

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What's the difference between a softbox and a shootthru brolly?

Asside from the obvious physical attributes, I am just wondering how the light differs as both seem to me to be essentially the same thing... a flash with a piece of fabric in front to difuse the light.
 
I think (although I'm still getting my head round this too) that the idea of a softbox is that there is no/minimal light spillage where as with a shoot thru there can b light spillage. :shrug:
 
Rob.Marsh is right that spillage is an issue with a shoot through. Because there is no 'back' to the brolly the light will go back and bounce of whatever walls surfaces etc. are behind it. You get much less spillage with a soft box as it surrounds the light source and reflects it all forwards.

Other things that are different: Catchlight shape, ability to use filters/modifiers, size etc.

Plus points for the brolly are really around its portability.
 
Interesting one this, when is it an advantage to use a shoot-thru brolly instead of a softbox?
 
nfulcher said:
Interesting one this, when is it an advantage to use a shoot-thru brolly instead of a softbox?
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When like me you can't afford a softbox!! :lol:

I'd not considered the catchlight shape being different, nor the ability to use filters/modifires.
That said I'm approaching strobist style so mount thefilters with a DIY gizmo to the flash behind the brolly.
 
nfulcher said:
Interesting one this, when is it an advantage to use a shoot-thru brolly instead of a softbox?
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Re Garry79's comment - when you're moving about a lot from place to place and you haven't got a big car/van to save taking the softbox apart (though some do fold too)

Otherwise, they are crap compared to softboxes IMO

I never use brollies

DD
 
nfulcher said:
Interesting one this, when is it an advantage to use a shoot-thru brolly instead of a softbox?
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  • If you want brolly shaped catchlights. ;)
  • When you are carrying kit around it saves space and a brolly can be used as a reflector as well.
  • A brolly gives less 'directional light' if that's what you're after.
 
I agree with the space issues raised by DD and Garry.

Interesting that DD said he never uses brollies, I must admit I assumed that most pro's didn't. I don't know why though. Maybe its cos I haven't seen any used. :lol:

I am hoping that come end of march I'll have a better handle on all of this kinda stuff, my parents booked me onto a days portrait photography course with the chap who is photographing our wedding. I'm very excited!
 
Not much. You have more control with a softbox as the brolly tends to spill light where it's not wanted, it tends to 'wrap around' the subject more.
 
DiddyDave said:
Otherwise, they are crap compared to softboxes IMO
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Can you give a more 'reasoned' argument why they are 'not so good'?

The reason I'm asking goes back to my setting up a small studio at work thread. I've painted (well, will be this afternoon) my room matt black. Have a Lastolite Hilite background on order and was just about to order my Lencarta lights. Then I discover they've changed the website and seem to have a new starter kit available. This means I could buy two of these kits and have 4 of the 'better' heads. The only thing is there would be no budget for the softbox.

Alternatively I go with the original plan and buy the above kit, plus a softbox, plus their cheaper eBay kit with the 200J heads for HiLite background.

Any advice on what would be better?

We dont need the kit to be portable, and I don't really care about catchlight shape (that's the highlight in a model's eyes yeah?).

Sorry for so many questions.
 
68lbs said:
Can you give a more 'reasoned' argument why they are 'not so good'?

The reason I'm asking goes back to my setting up a small studio at work thread. I've painted (well, will be this afternoon) my room matt black. Have a Lastolite Hilite background on order and was just about to order my Lencarta lights. Then I discover they've changed the website and seem to have a new starter kit available. This means I could buy two of these kits and have 4 of the 'better' heads. The only thing is there would be no budget for the softbox.

Alternatively I go with the original plan and buy the above kit, plus a softbox, plus their cheaper eBay kit with the 200J heads for HiLite background.

Any advice on what would be better?

We dont need the kit to be portable, and I don't really care about catchlight shape (that's the highlight in a model's eyes yeah?).

Sorry for so many questions.
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Ah - you're shooting dummies !!! I was gonna whinge about the importance of the shape of the catchlight - but I won't now :D

I know on the other thread Garry said paint everything black as the space is small, but unless you're wanting to control shadow details (and I'm not sure if that's important for your clothes/dummies) then the whole room white and let the light bounce around may be better

Brollies, especially in a small room, let light go everywhere uncontrollably - which is why we don't use them. But if flat lighting suits your subject, then brollies could be great for you

Now then - are you gonna 'Paint it Black' or not :shrug:

DD
 
I see no mention of a red door! :lol: :coat:
 
DiddyDave said:
Brollies, especially in a small room, let light go everywhere uncontrollably - which is why we don't use them. But if flat lighting suits your subject, then brollies could be great for you
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More so in a small room painted white! The white walls act as a reflector and makes the light (and shadow) much harder to control, especially with a brolly. If it's the case that you do want a white background then I would suggest that you paint ONE wall white (or buy a roll of background paper) and the rest black. Then you only have the problem of light bouncing back from one surface.

Although if what you want is an 'all white with flat lighting look' for your images then just stick a pot of white paint in a room and stick some dynamite in it!
 
Garry79 said:
More so in a small room painted white! The white walls act as a reflector and makes the light (and shadow) much harder to control, especially with a brolly. If it's the case that you do want a white background then I would suggest that you paint ONE wall white (or buy a roll of background paper) and the rest black. Then you only have the problem of light bouncing back from one surface.

Although if what you want is an 'all white with flat lighting look' for your images then just stick a pot of white paint in a room and stick some dynamite in it!
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Does dynamite give a smooth finish then :thinking:

:D

It sounded on that other thread that the usual modelling lighting control isn't really what he's after, so loads of spill will ensure even lighting cheaply - but with some of modelling too from the light going through the brolly, and that will always be stronger than that just bouncing around

If the rest of the room is black, then he'll need a very big light source to not make it look like a smaller harsher light was used - and the spill from the shoot through brolly will simply be a waste of power

Don't forget too that working in a black room is going to be miserable as hell - and that's not a good thing if you don't have to :shake:

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Now then - are you gonna 'Paint it Black' or not
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Cheers Dave, was that a spanner I saw you chucking in my direction? ;)

Right, I'm going to stick to the original plan... black room, cheaper lights for the HiLite, better ones for the 'subject' with softbox and brolly so we can play and not be wishing we had a softbox to try.
 
68lbs said:
Cheers Dave, was that a spanner I saw you chucking in my direction? ;)

Right, I'm going to stick to the original plan... black room, cheaper lights for the HiLite, better ones for the 'subject' with softbox and brolly so we can play and not be wishing we had a softbox to try.
Click to expand...

Good luck with it all, hope it turns out well.
 
Garry79 said:
If it's the case that you do want a white background then I would suggest that you paint ONE wall white
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We're using the Lastolite Hilite for the background as per Garry Edwards suggestion. :)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
There's always one of these, just to confuse things :naughty:

umbrella-softbox-thru.jpg
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STILL GOT A LOT OF SPILL OUT OF THE SIDES FLASH;)

i got 1 1m octagonal softbox and two brollies and two cheap softboxes, and in truth, none of them compare to a decent quality softbox, which i blame diddy dave for !!!

i assume the pros would use brollies occasionally but be more because they want the spill light everywhere and they tend to work in bigger rooms so spill would have less effect
 
fletch5 said:
STILL GOT A LOT OF SPILL OUT OF THE SIDES FLASH;)
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Yup, but it doesn't throw light back all over the place - just out the sides :lol:

The only real advantage it has over a softbox is that it is quicker to set up and easier to transport, so ideal for location work
 
68lbs said:
Can you give a more 'reasoned' argument why they are 'not so good'?

The reason I'm asking goes back to my setting up a small studio at work thread. I've painted (well, will be this afternoon) my room matt black. Have a Lastolite Hilite background on order and was just about to order my Lencarta lights. Then I discover they've changed the website and seem to have a new starter kit available. This means I could buy two of these kits and have 4 of the 'better' heads. The only thing is there would be no budget for the softbox.

Alternatively I go with the original plan and buy the above kit, plus a softbox, plus their cheaper eBay kit with the 200J heads for HiLite background.

Any advice on what would be better?

We dont need the kit to be portable, and I don't really care about catchlight shape (that's the highlight in a model's eyes yeah?).

Sorry for so many questions.
Click to expand...

Go for 2 of the starter kits (at a silly giveaway price that will only last until the present stock runs out) and dig a bit deeper for a softbox. Until the new site is up and running properly, you can only order by phone.

I think your softbox -v- umbrella question has been answered well. All I would add is that shoot through umbrellas spill about 40% of their light by reflection, this goes everywhere and reduces contrast, kills lighting control and causes flare in a small space, and especially in a white painted space with low ceilings But if everything is painted black, or if you shoot in a large space with high ceilings and distant walls it's much less of a problem - so I wouldn't personally describe shoot through umbrellas as useless, more as a tool that, like all others, has its limitations.
A softbox doesn't have the spill problems but still has the bounce problems, again this is affected a lot by the size of room and the reflectivity, so black again helps a lot. Yes, black is depressing to work in. It's a decision that we all have to make and I don't think that there is such as thing as a perfect decision on this.
I keep banging on about lighting control. Anyone can produce soft light very easily, and most beginners seem to think it's the best thing since sliced bread, but as skills and knowledge is gained most people learn the value of hard lighting. Marc Gouguenheim is one of many top photographers who shoots nearly all his fashion with hard light. When he uses softboxes they tend to be fairly distant and they're expensive ones, which give a crisp light. Most fashion photographers use Chimera or similar quality because it makes the clothes look much more expensive and the model looks sexier, although they may not matter much if you're shooting dummies because I don't know any men who would want to sh** a dummy and I don't know any women who want to look like a lump of moulded plastic:lol: A good reason for using models to sell clothes...

Before I leave this subject, don't forget reflective umbrellas. They can't produce soft light because they face the 'wrong way' and so can't be placed close to the subject, but the lighting can be fairly crisp and there isn't anywhere near as much spill as with shoot throughs. I use them mainly as hairlights but they make a fair alternative to distant softboxes.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Yup, but it doesn't throw light back all over the place - just out the sides :lol:
Click to expand...

which then bounce of oyur walls and then all over the place:lol:

to be fair, it is a go between, someone decided it would work better and keep costs down to add a bit of fabric to stop you losing so much light out the back.

the softbox would be more directional
 
fletch5 said:
i got 1 1m octagonal softbox and two brollies and two cheap softboxes, and in truth, none of them compare to a decent quality softbox, which i blame diddy dave for !!!
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What exactly am I being blamed for here ???

:suspect::suspect::suspect::suspect::suspect:

DD
 
I'd blame Dave too. :D

What is regarded "a decent quality softbox"? A £105 one from Lencarta?
 
68lbs said:
I'd blame Dave too. :D

What is regarded "a decent quality softbox"? A £105 one from Lencarta?
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I think that the Lencarta are as good as any others, unless you spend £600 on a Chimera. Now that I'm tech advisor for lencarta I'm hoping that I can get even better front diffusers fitted in the future but, if I can, that will be some way away. Have you seen my DIY softbox fix?

P.S. What's poor Dave done?
 
Garry Edwards said:
I think that the Lencarta are as good as any others, unless you spend £600 on a Chimera. Now that I'm tech advisor for lencarta I'm hoping that I can get even better front diffusers fitted in the future but, if I can, that will be some way away. Have you seen my DIY softbox fix?

P.S. What's poor Dave done?
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Ah the shower curtain - a classic example of British ingenuity :thumbs:

Still not sure what the blame's for either :'(

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
Still not sure what the blame's for either :'(

DD
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To be honest Dave I think it only fair and right that you get blamed for something each and every day....even if it's nothing what so ever to do with you:rules: It just gives the rest of us a nice warm fuzzy feeling:lol:
 
Eric Mc said:
To be honest Dave I think it only fair and right that you get blamed for something each and every day....even if it's nothing what so ever to do with you:rules: It just gives the rest of us a nice warm fuzzy feeling:lol:
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Now THAT I can appreciate :thumbs:

Glad to be of service to one 'n' all

(clears throat)

"It WAS me!!!"

:)

DD
 
fletch5 said:
which then bounce of oyur walls and then all over the place:lol:

to be fair, it is a go between, someone decided it would work better and keep costs down to add a bit of fabric to stop you losing so much light out the back.

the softbox would be more directional
Click to expand...

I prefer the softbox, but at a tenner each, those umbrellas are just another handy thing to have lying about. Mind you if I hadn't bought all those "handy" things I'd have the money for one of those Lastolite Eazybox Hotshoe thingies :bang:
 
Eric Mc said:
To be honest Dave I think it only fair and right that you get blamed for something each and every day....even if it's nothing what so ever to do with you:rules: It just gives the rest of us a nice warm fuzzy feeling:lol:
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Yeah, I blame Dave too (not sure what for, but I'll think of something later and that will make me feel better) :lol:

Reminds me, MUST get some togging in this weekend !

Steve
 
LOL, I was blaming dave for the 1m rotalux octagonal softbox i got. (well, ok, i will accept a little of the blame for clicking buy):thumbs:
 
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