Solution to criminals - pay them

DiddyDave

DiddyDave

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Inspired by some environmental ramblings herein, I thought I'd test the water with this gem of an idea for saving money on Police, prisons and much more besides... (which I guess means we wouldn't have to tax the motorist as much - meaning they'd have more money to spend on cameras!)

In school we all do 'tests' often enough, so why not include psychological profiling (more) to test all pupils?

Those predisposed to be plumbers are encouraged to be... Plumbers

Same for cops, builders, hairdressers, nurses, soldiers, etc.

But what about those of most likely criminal intent?

Well we could ASBO them (badge of honour); or use youth detention orders (badge...) or wait until they commit a crime and lock them away perhaps (badge...) - so what about an "Economic" solution? We pay them NOT to be criminals?

Think about it: the solicitor/court savings: fewer cops needed; £1,000+ per week saved on imprisonment fees; no social workers needed for rehabilitation; little old ladies no longer worried to answer the door at night; after a day in the city you discover your car is still there! Intact! Even with your Tom Tom still in its holder; you drop your wallet and it's returned Freepost with the cash still inside; the list of benefits is endless

So, serious criminals £1,000 a week not to be one? Petty crims a mere £500 per week? Organised crime bosses (potentially) £3,000 per week?

It'd all be a huge saving to society so economically it'd make sense - OR - do we just get those predisposed to be soldiers to shoot those predisposed to be criminals?

Economically, that makes even more sense doesn't it?
 
This is kind of like the eat the unwanted children thing by that famous guy in Ireland....
 
DiddyDave said:
Economically, that makes even more sense doesn't it?
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Have I mentioned I'm thinking of turning to a life of crime?

Seriously, this is the daftest idea I've ever come across. And I'm saying that under a Labour government so my standards and expectations are already on the floor.
 
GfK said:
And I'm saying that under a Labour government so my standards and expectations are already on the floor.
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:lol: ROFL - couldnt have put it in context any better myself :D

:thumbs:
 
DiddyDave said:
Hey - I work for the Conservative think-tank on policy reform pertaining to criminality and the legislative process - this is a real suggestion of mine for a new Conservative Government

So be careful!
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Hardly suprising that nobody bothers to vote these days.


:canon:
 
hypnotic said:
The day they decide to bring in a law like this ... is the day I pack my bags and emigrate.
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... and I'd be on the seat next to you.

This is an absolutely crazy idea - you are taking the p*ss right? I'd seriously think about becoming an organised crime boss if I was gonna get £3K per week. That's much more than my current job pays, and without all the unsocial hours and stress that goes with it. We'd be over-run with wannabe criminals because we'd all be getting paid more than if we were doing 'real' jobs.
 
I wonder if the "enviromental ramblings" is a reference to the large amount of methane rising from your post? :D

To me, this comes across as an attempt to bait people to dive in feet first. If it's not, my apologies for doubting your intentions though I hope you'll forgive me for doubting the feasibilty of your idea since psychological profiling is most commonly used by the police when trying to solve crimes involving serial offenders.

Psychometric testing is used to assess a person's ability or personality. The three main types of test are ability, personality and interest. If they are answered properly (would a (potential) criminal be more likely to lie?) they can help give the person an idea if the are more likely to be practical, analytical or creative but they don't mean a person will know if they'd be a great plumber or surgeon. It's quite possible for someone to be good in more than one area also.

Chris "who now knows a little bit about psychometric testing" L
 
hmm - think you blew the economy on your flight of fancy there - far too many livlihoods would be lost that are currently devoted to keeping the peace.

Dont worry chap - George W would like to offer you a nice job. You can tie your own laces right? :D
 
Someone suggested a lottery for prisoners to solve the prison overcrowding problem. Any time a new prisoner gets sent to the prison that is full, a lottery is held with all the prisoners assigned a number. The lucky prisoner whose number is chosen will be executed to make space for the new inmate. Doesn't matter if the chosen prisoner is a mass murderer or someone who's in there for one week because he didn't pay his parking ticket. :D

Yes, another daft idea.
 
Yet another example of government style thinking - half-baked schemes to address the symptoms rather than the cause. This madness would encourage crime because then it really would pay... How long before I can book a flight to the moon?
 
Nice that this got a few considered responses, but some of you missed the economics of it. I do get the 'that's not fair' bit, but put that to one side and think about where your taxes really go, and what a waste it can be

Think of it as... run-down council estate where yobs steal, bully, scare, rob and mug old folk for what turns out to be a small amount of money. Police are involved, hospital maybe, social workers even, all as a result of what could be less than £20 to the yobs. The cost to the state at this point could be thousands of £s, and we know no-one will be 'caught' and even if so the CPS won't bother with it.

The little old lady has suffered greatly though, the 'cost' to her lost feeling of safety and well-being far exceeds the thousands of £s wasted on following up the crime.

If those same yobs had been given £100 that day as a 'Yob Allowance', the state would have saved thousands of £s of your taxes and the little old lady is still living happily and feeling safe (priceless)

If we paid those in prison now just a 10th of what it costs to keep them there, they'd be less likely to re-offend as they'd be on £20k or more to stay at home.

Real nasty offenders just need shooting
 
Economics of it is quite sound TBH but it would soon go out of control as all those on the dole getting £50 or whatever will soon become criminals.

What we should be doing is getting the criminals and people claiming benefits to do more community work like repairing parks, roads and helping out removing graphiti. Anything really that the local authority is lacking on that needs doing.
They could 'opt' to do comunity service instead of doing the time. Say someone commits fraud and is sentenced to 12months, they could possibly do 12 months of 40h pw community service instead. Solves overcrowding of prisons too .

my 2p anyhow
 
The economics are garbage - what are you going to do by way of re-employong the public and civil servants you no longer require? or do they now live off the state too?
 
I'm still not sure if this is a wind up or not but I'll bite....

You cannot address a subject like this solely from an economic point of view as there are too many other social factors to take into consideration. As others have said this hare-brained idea will encourage crime and anti-social behaviour as inevitably greed will take over and in time would end up costing the country dearly as more of the underclass joined this scheme.

Would they also receive their normal state benefits as well as this payment? How would you discourage the disadvantaged from joining this scheme? If they are unemployed and/or unemployable now what will they be like when there is even less incentive to get out and find work? Do you really believe that paying them a weekly sum will stop them from offending, as I can guarantee that that they will take the money and carry on as before and why shouldn't they, they are not getting caught at the moment and they wouldn't under this scheme. Remember, you called them criminals and do you honestly believe they are going to give up what they do for £100 a week. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I'd be interested to know how this would be implemented and what the cut-off point would be before you are entitled to a yob allowance, would it be just a bit of anti-social behaviour, three or maybe five criminal convictions? I'd also like to know how children would be educated in this, special classes at school to point out the pitfalls of working hard and maybe trying to make something of your life instead of doing b****r all and being rewarded for it. I know, pay them to attend the classes so they get a taste of what is to come.

Instead of spending the money foolishly why not completely overhaul the criminal justice system, invest in the police so there is a visible presence on the streets instead of all the different departments. This does work as it was done in the early eighties in an area of South London renowned for criminality. All the squads, teams, specialist units etc were disbanded and put back on the streets in uniform and because of their physical presence crime was reduced drastically because of the deterence (sp?) factor. This would have to be backed up by a robust court and prisons system so that criminals would fear having to do hard time (and I mean hard time) instead of wearing their prison sentences as a badge of honour as they do now. If that means building more prisons then so be it, at least they will be off our streets.

It is thinking like yours that makes me despair sometimes and genuinely fear for the type of world my two sons are coming into, where all sense of right and wrong is fast disappearing (something I and my wife have always instilled in them). The moral fibre of this nation has gone and is being replaced by ill-thought out schemes such as this which will only help to drag us nearer an anarchic state which will become uncontrollable and where decent, honest people will live in a climate of fear, as so many already do in some areas.
 
Jonnyreb said:
The economics are garbage - what are you going to do by way of re-employong the public and civil servants you no longer require? or do they now live off the state too?
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Economics of the original idea are quite strangely true.
As for the mine, we are well short of people to clean britain up.
When you next go out have a look around for graphiti, bet there is some there that been there for ages. Who's job was it to clean that up??? If there was someone doing it they are obviously putting it off.
All them jobs that cant be done cause the state dont have the money could be done. it wonmt hurt having extra hands anyway, means more jobs get done.
 
brummie said:
Economics of the original idea are quite strangely true.
As for the mine, we are well short of people to clean britain up.
When you next go out have a look around for graphiti, bet there is some there that been there for ages. Who's job was it to clean that up??? If there was someone doing it they are obviously putting it off.
All them jobs that cant be done cause the state dont have the money could be done. it wonmt hurt having extra hands anyway, means more jobs get done.
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Is this also wind up? What is the bigger population; all the prison population or all the staff that constitute the legal system, police force, prison service etc. Dont bother thinking about that; its the latter.

If you take the crack-pot solution and prevent crime by paying for it (assuming of course that the amounts could ever be agreed and honoured), what do you do with that massive population of suddenly redundant people? Pay them to not commit crimes too? Pay them to do nothing? They dont have jobs anymore so you have to do something.

Surely the better solution is to take some of Hackers thinking, but intead of the traditional rock-breaking hard-labour criminals do those jobs that others dont want to do; cleaning graffiti to use your example, picking up rubbish etc. A US style chain gang would be hugely effective dont you think. You dont need to pay them as they are repaying their debt to society. Sadly it doesn't provide them a cosy life, or a 'badge', but thats kinda the point, no?
 
So we keep crime up to keep people in a job??? :thinking:

My way would create jobs for those that would lose out, like wardens etc by becoming supervisors etc of the people doing the Community work.

I'm not saying the original idea was good, but just answering the question posed.
 
This is the most half assed idea I've ever heard, and wind up or not, it's typical of schemes thought up by people meddling with the police and criminal justice system who really have no idea of what the real problems are and the irreparable damage they are doing.

OK so we pay these people not to commit crime, but they're criminals FFS! They'll take the money AND continue to commit crime, and as long as they don't get caught they'll be sticking an even bigger finger up to society than they do now.

Think tank my arse. :lol:
 
Jonnyreb said:
Surely the better solution is to take some of Hackers thinking, but intead of the traditional rock-breaking hard-labour criminals do those jobs that others dont want to do; cleaning graffiti to use your example, picking up rubbish etc. A US style chain gang would be hugely effective dont you think. You dont need to pay them as they are repaying their debt to society. Sadly it doesn't provide them a cosy life, or a 'badge', but thats kinda the point, no?
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:agree: A big harrumph to that. :clap:
 
brummie said:
So we keep crime up to keep people in a job??? :thinking:

My way would create jobs for those that would lose out, like wardens etc by becoming supervisors etc of the people doing the Community work.

I'm not saying the original idea was good, but just answering the question posed.
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Thats a little fatuous dont you think and misses the orginal assertation that we pay ciminals not to commit crimes? This relies on criminals being honest (erm..... unlikely) and is financially untenable.

My argument is certainly not that we keep crime up to provide jobs!!! :nono:
 
I have no idea wtf u are going on about now

Youve already reitterated what i put :shrug: and quoted the post after what i had put was echoed in the next post :bonk:


Surely the better solution is to take some of Hackers thinking, but intead of the traditional rock-breaking hard-labour criminals do those jobs that others dont want to do; cleaning graffiti to use your example, picking up rubbish etc. A US style chain gang would be hugely effective dont you think. You dont need to pay them as they are repaying their debt to society. Sadly it doesn't provide them a cosy life, or a 'badge', but thats kinda the point, no?
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I can't believe you muppets are being suckered into this and are now resorting to in-fighting.
 
brummie said:
I have no idea wtf u are going on about now

Youve already reitterated what i put :shrug: and quoted the post after what i had put was echoed in the next post :bonk:
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The difference is between community service and a prison sentence with mandatory labour.

You need only look at Boy George for example of how community service doesn't work. It turned into a media circus. Clearly this is an extreme example, but the fact remains that after he swept the street, he returned to his own home, indulged in his own passtimes and communicty service became a distant memory.

Forced labour means the criminal returns to his cell after the days work and his liberty is still suspended.

My disagreement with you concerns the economics.
 
What's wrong with having a huge population paid not to work? Isn't that what we already have with the unemployed on benefits? Let alone paying & housing people (immigrants) who may eventually be allowed to stay here at our cost too.

Home Office predictions show by 2011 they'll be 87,500 in prison in the UK; at an average cost of almost £2,000 per week that's c.£175,000,000 per week! Or about £12 per week as your tax contribution from all those in paid employment; that's over £50 per month per worker - we're already paying them, it's just that it's free room & board, free tellies, free gyms, etc.

Even if they were all paid £500 per week not to be criminals, the country would be well in pocket (obviously allowing for fewer Police, courts, etc. too.) But largely as much of each crims £500 pwk would be spent again on goods & services they get for free in prison.

Holiday resorts would prosper from all year occupancy, of ex-crims & their families enjoying themselves sat next to ex-Police Officers & their families.

The point about a criminal taking the money and still being a criminal is valid - but would come under the 'Baseball' strategy - 3 strikes and you're out - by which they'd be shot or placed in squalid & dire conditions in the very few remainng prisons. Repeat serious offenders wouldn't be allowed to live here, or at all.

Even if the full savings were the same as the full costs - stopping crime would save many thousands of victims from being victims, and how can you price that one?

In a safer society - you could take night-time photos without worrying your camera was going to be nicked!
 
:coat: :whistling:
 
DiddyDave said:
Even if they were all paid £500 per week not to be criminals, the country would be well in pocket (obviously allowing for fewer Police, courts, etc. too.) But largely as much of each crims £500 pwk would be spent again on goods & services they get for free in prison.
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I suggest you get yourself a clipboard and nip down the local job centre, conduct a quick poll of how the unemployed would feel about criminals being paid £500 a week to do nothing whilst they struggle to find work on the pittance they get.

I expect you'll have a chance to reflect on your idea as you recover in hospital...
 
the original poster has obviously got his dates mixed up, he thinks it's april 1st :lol:
 
Why not just bring back capital punishment? :D Wouldn't that solve the problems of overcrowding and funding of prisons? A good public flogging would certainly be more effective than an ASBO, and for those proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be guilty of the most heinous crimes, execute them - they wouldn't be able to re-offend then :lol:

I'd be pretty hacked off if someone was paying a criminal £500 per week to not commit crimes, when I am working my arse off for the NHS, working all hours, weekends, bank holidays etc for less. Just doesn't make sense. Your scheme means that it wouldn't be fair on hardworking, honest people.
 
Cheryl for Prime Minister! :thumbs:
 
you seem to forget that with less police, parole officers, community workers etc needed due to this idea there will be a great deal more unemployed. with this rise in unemployment, you will see more being paid out in benefits and less income from taxes.

and what happens when these 'criminals' decide to earn a bit of extra cash on the side, perhaps by mugging old ladies? they arent being caught at the moment, so with less police around, who is going to catch them with this scheme in place?

this seems to be a half thought out dream that, if the world were perfect, and everyone honest, could work. but if you give a criminal £500 not to commit a crime this week, do you honestly believe he wont commit one?
 
I can't belive you lot are STILL falling for the troll.
 
And Minimeeze hits the nail on t'proverbial head!!!

The argument is valid and while the repercussions with associated industries and services is incalcuable, having just 87,500 extras on the dole (albeit at £500 a week), even with another 50,000 related workers as new dole-ies, would be a huge saving for the country.

However, the real & incalculable benefit is not in money, but the fact that there'd be very very few victims. Anyone who's been a victim, or dealt with the aftermath of those who have, would agree.

A safe society carries inherent costs, presently, we spend Billions of £s doing little to make our country really any safer, & often as we now seem more concerned about the criminals 'rights' than anyone else's. Perhaps the Middle East solutions of chopping hands off should be adopted - but that's another debate, yes?

Of course it's all bol***ks here, but a good debate none-the-less as it's had good commentary from several & provoked a little thought perhaps.

Anyone fancy another? There's plenty of provocative material to go at!
 
Giving them £500 a week would be a good way to fund the tools needed to commit more crimes.

Getaway car, sawn off shotgun and tickets to Brazil please! :lol:

:canon:
 
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