So What Do You Think These UFOs Are?

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Ricardodaforce

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

The US Department of Defense has released three declassified videos of "unexplained aerial phenomena".
The Pentagon said it wanted to "clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real".
The videos had already been leaked in 2007 and 2017.

Interesting! I have no idea what they are. What do you think?
 
Well, they're definitely UFO's, and thats about all anyone can say with any certainty.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52457805

The US Department of Defense has released three declassified videos of "unexplained aerial phenomena".
The Pentagon said it wanted to "clear up any misconceptions by the public on whether or not the footage that has been circulating was real".
The videos had already been leaked in 2007 and 2017.

Interesting! I have no idea what they are. What do you think?
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No idea. Have you got one on sport? :D

I've had an interest in UFO's and anything unusual really for most of my life and I've been lucky enough to have spoken to some MoD and other people who've seen them and actually I saw something too (along with others, not a lone experience) in the latter half of the 1960's but of course what I actually saw I'll never know.

I think one of the most interesting questions we face is are we alone and as Arthur C Clarke said (something like) Two possibilities exist. Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.

Some of the UFO type things reportedly flying around will be natural phenomena, misidentification, alternative experiences, lies etc but if some are indeed manufactured craft I suppose some could very well be as yet unannounced secret stuff made right here on planet earth or even something else, aliens, time travelers or who knows? If they are human made craft that raises questions about how and where and why they do what they do and should it be allowed? This could explain sightings in the technological modern age but can't really explain the UFO like experiences and reports going further back in time. And to the possibility of UFO's being non human, if UFO's are aliens or time travelers... haven't they got anything better to do?

One interesting thing I read and I can't remember where I read it sees UFO's as an experience that is essentially something beyond our comprehension but nothing to do with us and it goes like this...

A moth is going about his business when he is suddenly blown through the open window of a passing car. Strange beings flap at him and he captured and ejected out of the window and lands in a bush. "My God!" He exclaims to the moths he meets there. "You'll never believe what happened to me!" That's one possibility I suppose.
 
I saw a video showing how misleading a video like this can be. This is a flir video (infra red) but from behind a commercial jet looks fairly similar on a flir camera (the video did a comparrison) they did look a lot like each other. The rotation from side to side is not uncommon for a fighter as they bank to get a better view around them frequently.
Not saying thats what this is, jsust hard to tell from the video. It would be nice to see the normal camera shot of it rather than the heat image.
 
Unidentifiable and unexplained for sure, but from another alien world no chance. Even with extreme advanced technology making travel approaching the speed of light possible it would still take a ridiculous length of time to get here given that the average distance between stars in our galaxy is about 4 years. The chances of life existing somewhere in the universe must be really high given the numbers involved but to have a civilisation in our own back yard of say 100 light years radius with such advanced technology must be very low. Even if they could find a way to travel to Earth over a ridiculous length of time, why come to observe a few military bases, ships or aircraft and do nothing else. We would be so inferior to them.
Of course if anyone wants to dispute the laws surrounding the speed of light and travel, then that is another argument that at the moment is purely speculation.
 
Peter10d said:
Of course if anyone wants to dispute the laws surrounding the speed of light and travel, then that is another argument that at the moment is purely speculation.
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There's no point in disputing them because we have no way of gathering sufficient data but using the word "law" is problematic for the same reason. All we can accurately say is that our current and very limited observations support the current theories around lightspeed.

We really can't imagine what a species which has had a technological civilisation for a thousand years longer than we have might have discovered or invented. Given the size of our galaxy it's possible that we share it with species whose technology is a hundred thousand years ahead of ours.
 
woof woof said:
I think one of the most interesting questions we face is are we alone and as Arthur C Clarke said (something like) Two possibilities exist. Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
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I find both possibilities interesting. Neither of them worry me, let alone frighten me.
 
MartynK said:
I find both possibilities interesting. Neither of them worry me, let alone frighten me.
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Agreed.
Given the diversity of life on Earth, once it started it would appear to suggest with the right conditions it can evolve into millions of different species.
By applying even the most conservative estimates to the Drake equation it still results in millions of potential Earth like planets. With Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon all being amongst the most abundant elements in the universe it would seem really strange for some forms to life not to have evolved elsewhere even if not in our galaxy but one of the other billions of galaxies out there.
 
Peter10d said:
By applying even the most conservative estimates to the Drake equation it still results in millions of potential Earth like planets.
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It's possible that there are very few Earth like planets in our galaxy, After all, Earth didn't start out at all Earth like. It only became so as a result of many events which look extremely unlikely at our current level of knowledge. Until we spot another planet that shares our currently unique spectral signature we have precisely no data on which to speculate.
 
Peter10d said:
Unidentifiable and unexplained for sure, but from another alien world no chance. Even with extreme advanced technology making travel approaching the speed of light possible it would still take a ridiculous length of time to get here given that the average distance between stars in our galaxy is about 4 years. The chances of life existing somewhere in the universe must be really high given the numbers involved but to have a civilisation in our own back yard of say 100 light years radius with such advanced technology must be very low. Even if they could find a way to travel to Earth over a ridiculous length of time, why come to observe a few military bases, ships or aircraft and do nothing else. We would be so inferior to them.
Of course if anyone wants to dispute the laws surrounding the speed of light and travel, then that is another argument that at the moment is purely speculation.
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This is a valid argument assuming we know everything there is to know and there are no cheats, other ways or doing things or that we're simply wrong :D After all at one time it was thought that humans couldn't travel faster than a man on a horse could run as we'd suffocate, trains came along and that theory was proved wrong.

I suppose the speed of light could be a limit but who's to say warping space isn't a workable answer? Just because we can't do something doesn't mean someone else elsewhere in the universe also can't do it.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
It's possible that there are very few Earth like planets in our galaxy, After all, Earth didn't start out at all Earth like. It only became so as a result of many events which look extremely unlikely at our current level of knowledge. Until we spot another planet that shares our currently unique spectral signature we have precisely no data on which to speculate.
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Life maybe doesn't need the conditions needed on Earth for our kind of life form, other life could be radically different. Life may be very rare but it could also be very common. Look at the life on earth that's radically different to us and lives in environments completely inhospitable to us.
 
Very few is an extremely indeterminate number! Could be just Earth or could be half a dozen of the so-called Goldilocks planets suitable for our type (as in denizens of planet Earth) of water and carbon based life. If we call it 2 (including Earth) planets capable of supporting any form of life per galaxy and multiply that by the number of galaxies in the observable universe, you have around 4 trillion life bearing planets. At least one of them must have advanced, intelligent life, although whether or not it's within a reasonable distance is more unlikely...
 
I think one of the bigger questions is will we ever obtain any sort of evidence for other life. At the moment our hopes are with SETI but given they are only able to monitor a tiny fraction of space within only our galaxy at any given time, it is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack. Add to this that we don’t know what types of signals might be out there along with the factor of 13.8 billions years and we have only be searching for a tiny period of time, this leaves us needing a miracle (not a good choice of word for a science thread [emoji51]. Oops am I even allowed to say that [emoji848]) to come across anything that could be considered to be a manufactured signal.
Such a find would be so amazing.
 
Peter10d said:
I think one of the bigger questions is will we ever obtain any sort of evidence for other life. At the moment our hopes are with SETI but given they are only able to monitor a tiny fraction of space within only our galaxy at any given time, it is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack. Add to this that we don’t know what types of signals might be out there along with the factor of 13.8 billions years and we have only be searching for a tiny period of time, this leaves us needing a miracle (not a good choice of word for a science thread [emoji51]. Oops am I even allowed to say that [emoji848]) to come across anything that could be considered to be a manufactured signal.
Such a find would be so amazing.
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There are other ways of detecting life. SETI is geared towards detecting radio signals (ie signs of advanced life), but life can also be detected by spectroscopic analysis of exoplanets atmospheres.
 
Coronavirus spreading rapidly, US health system unable to treat people properly, US society disintegrating, a president who does little more than spout the nonsensical products of his brain farts, and the fact the West is crumbling...

OH LOOK OVER THERE! UFOS!!!!!
 
AZ6 said:
Coronavirus spreading rapidly, US health system unable to treat people properly, US society disintegrating, a president who does little more than spout the nonsensical products of his brain farts, and the fact the West is crumbling...

OH LOOK OVER THERE! UFOS!!!!!
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So discussing anything other than the virus shouldn’t be permitted?
Get back under your bridge if you have nothing to contribute.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
So discussing anything other than the virus shouldn’t be permitted?
Get back under your bridge if you have nothing to contribute.
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Calm yourself down. I'm not saying anything shouldn't be discussed at all; unlike some on here, I don't believe in censorship. Just commenting on how it's quite a useful distraction in the US, at the moment...

Q: So What Do You Think These UFOs Are?

A: A useful distraction.

Better?
 
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AZ6 said:
Coronavirus spreading rapidly, US health system unable to treat people properly, US society disintegrating, a president who does little more than spout the nonsensical products of his brain farts, and the fact the West is crumbling...

OH LOOK OVER THERE! UFOS!!!!!
Click to expand...

Reading this post and watching and hearing the news on TV and radio I do wonder if people are stupid or being deliberately misleading for political purposes or possibly even both. Can someone be both stupid enough to look at total numbers only and yet clever enough to use this one metric for political reasons? Maybe. I think it is an unhealthy mix of both, stupidity and bias.

The death toll in the US is appalling but you have to remember there's a lot of Americans. Every death is a tragedy but if we're compiling a death league table another way of looking at if Trump (or anyone else) has personally cocked it up worse than Boris (or anyone else) is to look at the number of deaths per 1k population and by that method at least a few days ago Belgium had it worst in the world. Comparatively few Belgium's have actually died but there weren't all that many of them to begin with.

Sorry to bring a little cold dispassionate logic into the whole hot and passionate anti Trump and wider anti USA thing. I'll let you get back to good old blinkered ranting bias now. They say it's good to vent so crack on.

Or we could distract ourselves with some good old escapism, like UFO's.
 
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woof woof said:
The death toll in the US is appalling but you have to remember there's a lot of Americans.
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There's over 2 billion people in China. Versus 300 million or so in the US. There have now been more reported deaths from CV in the US, than in China.


woof woof said:
Sorry to bring a little cold dispassionate logic into the whole hot and passionate anti Trump and wider anti USA thing
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Sorry; what? 'Anti Trump'? Isn't that just 'common sense and intelligence', ie, the preferred default state?


woof woof said:
I'll let you get back to good old blinkered ranting bias now
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'Blinkered'? Lol!


woof woof said:
Or we could distract ourselves with some good old escapism, like UFO's.
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Yes, we could...

Mars01.gif
 
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Hopefully this thread is not yet again going to be another political hijacking as so many seem to be now in this part of the forums. What some people forget is that when I last looked there was 60k members on here and not all of them will have the same political views or are going to be converted by spouting the same political opinions day in day out.

So to get back on track, does anyone think if we get to the stage of identifying atmospheric elements in distant exoplanets we could therefore assume life exists. What criteria should we set, for example would the detection of carbon dioxide and oxygen be enough?
 
Peter10d said:
Hopefully this thread is not yet again going to be another political hijacking as so many seem to be now in this part of the forums. What some people forget is that when I last looked there was 60k members on here and not all of them will have the same political views or are going to be converted by spouting the same political opinions day in day out.

So to get back on track, does anyone think if we get to the stage of identifying atmospheric elements in distant exoplanets we could therefore assume life exists. What criteria should we set, for example would the detection of carbon dioxide and oxygen be enough?
Click to expand...

Given our entire Human Knowledge rests on what we've learned about our own planets, and a few lumps of rock and dust collected from space and the moon, I'd say trying to form any sort of reasonable hypothesis about what might be out there, is like trying to form a hypothesis about our entire planet, all it's systems and life, from one atom from one grain of sand found on a beach. Only like billions of times more complex. So; there could well be millions, billions of other elements in our galaxy alone. And systems capable of sustaining 'life' way beyond our comprehension. Which is why I think it's foolish to use the infinitesimally tiny information we actually have, to form any sort of hypothesis beyond praps the evolution of our own planet. Anything else is only ever going to be a guess.

Unless we find another grain of sand...
 
Ok. I'll bite.

AZ6 said:
There's over 2 billion people in China. Versus 300 million or so in the US. There have now been more reported deaths from CV in the US, than in China.
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The measures the Chinese imposed could probably never be imposed in any western style liberal democracy. If you want Chinese levels of control and power, vote for it.

AZ6 said:
Sorry; what? 'Anti Trump'? Isn't that just 'common sense and intelligence', ie, the preferred default state?
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Given the choice of Trump or Hillary a vote for Trump perhaps doesn't seem quite so foaming at the mouth insane given what's happened in the US and the history of the Clintons. Granted it's like choosing between a poke in the eye or a punch to the groin but some in the US were/are protesting against what they see as a very broken system that's ignored and marginalised them for years. If you felt like that a vote for HC may have been unpalatable and a vote for a dead dog could look more attractive.

Not that I'm expressing a political preference and I'm not, I'm just not as willing to blindly jump an any chance to have a pop at Trump or the USA in general as so many in the UK are. If that's your aim I think there's a Trump thread somewhere.

AZ6 said:
'Blinkered'? Lol!
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You are if you only look at data that supports your view and disregard contradictory data which is what you've done.

AZ6 said:
Yes, we could...
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See below.

Peter10d said:
Hopefully this thread is not yet again going to be another political hijacking as so many seem to be now in this part of the forums. What some people forget is that when I last looked there was 60k members on here and not all of them will have the same political views or are going to be converted by spouting the same political opinions day in day out.

So to get back on track, does anyone think if we get to the stage of identifying atmospheric elements in distant exoplanets we could therefore assume life exists. What criteria should we set, for example would the detection of carbon dioxide and oxygen be enough?
Click to expand...

Yes Peter. It's a wonder Brexit hasn't been mentioned yet.
 
woof woof said:
The measures the Chinese imposed could probably never be imposed in any western style liberal democracy. If you want Chinese levels of control and power, vote for it.
Click to expand...

But it seems to have been effective? As for 'liberal democracy'... ;)


woof woof said:
Given the choice of Trump or Hillary a vote for Trump perhaps doesn't seem quite so foaming at the mouth insane given what's happened in the US and the history of the Clintons.
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Wow. Ever looked up the Donald's history? I suggest you do. And his dad...



woof woof said:
You are if you only look at data that supports your view and disregard contradictory data which is what you've done.
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I haven't. I've used exactly the same logic you have...

Anyway....

UFOs.
 
AZ6 said:
Given our entire Human Knowledge rests on what we've learned about our own planets, and a few lumps of rock and dust collected from space and the moon, I'd say trying to form any sort of reasonable hypothesis about what might be out there, is like trying to form a hypothesis about our entire planet, all it's systems and life, from one atom from one grain of sand found on a beach. Only like billions of times more complex. So; there could well be millions, billions of other elements in our galaxy alone. And systems capable of sustaining 'life' way beyond our comprehension. Which is why I think it's foolish to use the infinitesimally tiny information we actually have, to form any sort of hypothesis beyond praps the evolution of our own planet. Anything else is only ever going to be a guess.

Unless we find another grain of sand...
Click to expand...

There is certainly a lot of unknowns namely dark matter being one of them. Of course life could exist in forms so unimaginable to us that we may never be able to detect it.
Based on our findings so far, the main elements have been detected widely throughout space/stars with there being an abundance of hydrogen, helium etc and exoplanets typically look to be either gas giants or potentially smaller non gas giants. So there appears to be a uniformity similar to our solar system that may suggest life would exist along similar lines to what we know eg. bacteria, viruses (bad word at the moment), simple cell life to complex cell life.
The thought that no life forms exist just seems unimaginable to me given that the life ‘materials’ are almost certainly out there.

UFO’s from another world[emoji848]. Why would they want to visit and watch us arguing about politics every day [emoji23]
 
woof woof said:
Yes Peter. It's a wonder Brexit hasn't been mentioned yet.
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If you stupid humans can't even sort out your trading arrangements what makes you think we're going to let you come and bother us? :naughty:


Star Wars Trooper.jpg
 
Peter10d said:
So to get back on track, does anyone think if we get to the stage of identifying atmospheric elements in distant exoplanets we could therefore assume life exists. What criteria should we set, for example would the detection of carbon dioxide and oxygen be enough?
Click to expand...


Probably wrong to assume that other life is all carbon/oxygen based.
 
Peter10d said:
The thought that no life forms exist just seems unimaginable to me given that the life ‘materials’ are almost certainly out there.
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Oh totally. If the universe, as imagined, is actually 'infinite', then surely there are also infinite possibilities?


Peter10d said:
Of course life could exist in forms so unimaginable to us that we may never be able to detect it.
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We could already have been visited. THEY could already be here!


Peter10d said:
UFO’s from another world
emoji848.png
. Why would they want to visit and watch us arguing about politics every day
Click to expand...

Fair point.

As you were...
 
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AZ6 said:
Oh totally. If the universe, as imagined, is actually 'infinite', then sure;y there are also infinite possibilities?

Yes this is true and if there is infinite multiverses then it becomes way beyond mind boggling.

I would settle for just one piece of decent evidence that life exists elsewhere even if we couldn't communicate.
We need another 'WOW' signal to investigate as it has been quiet for too long.
Click to expand...
 
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Looks like Batman to me
 
It's either the TARDIS, or the Enterprise looking for whales
 
According to Dreamlandresort, reading between the lines, it would seem to be the result of electronic countermeasures.
No one is really talking about it, but it looks like this is at the cutting edge of what is possible - if you can make your enemy think there is something there when there actually isn't rather than the usual - trying to disguise what is actually there, through stealth.
 
kendo1 said:
According to Dreamlandresort, reading between the lines, it would seem to be the result of electronic countermeasures.
No one is really talking about it, but it looks like this is at the cutting edge of what is possible - if you can make your enemy think there is something there when there actually isn't rather than the usual - trying to disguise what is actually there, through stealth.
Click to expand...

Though that doesn’t explain what the pilots state that they saw.
 
Slightly off topic but, anyone else watched ‘Project Blue Book’ on the box.?
 
Peter10d said:
Agreed.
Given the diversity of life on Earth, once it started it would appear to suggest with the right conditions it can evolve into millions of different species.
By applying even the most conservative estimates to the Drake equation it still results in millions of potential Earth like planets. With Hydrogen, Oxygen, Carbon all being amongst the most abundant elements in the universe it would seem really strange for some forms to life not to have evolved elsewhere even if not in our galaxy but one of the other billions of galaxies out there.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%. Astronomers estimate the number of galaxies in the known universe is 100 billion. What strikes me is it's 100 billion galaxies, not stars. In our Milky Way galaxy their estimate for stars is 100,000 million. You say it would be really strange if there were not life of some kind in amongst those bodies. I'd say nigh on impossible. The numbers involved are beyond normal comprehension. What if there's another 'Universe'. Uni is one,of course ..so multiverse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...el-universes-be-physically-real/#1b8c8d494d3f

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...scientific-about-the-multiverse/#3fa08f6a25c4

The one thing that I think of about dying is that I'll never know the answers to some of the most fascinating theories. Dark energy..approx 68% of the Universe. That's all we know about it. Dark matter. 27% The other 5% ..everything on Earth,all normal matter and all are observations by instruments. Astrophysicists in the England and Australia have discovered that different parts of the Universe have different laws of physics. At least ,as far as I'm aware, it's generally accepted that life anywhere in the Universe is carbon-based.

It's gone off a tad from what the title of the thread is but I suppose that was inevitable. What that unidentified object/vision is not is something from a location/source other than Earth. It's been mentioned in various ways in the previous posts. Why, having the technology to reach Earth do these 'crafts' never land ? We have technology that would detect anything like that in remote areas so no need for someone to ask.".how do we know they haven't ? " Endless amusing reasons for not landing,I appreciate but seriously..it's a non-starter.
 
JohnC6 said:
Uni is one,of course ..so multiverse.
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In this context: everything that exists, especially all physical matter, including all the stars, planets, galaxies, etc. "Multiverse" is illogical because it implies that the universe isn't the universe. :wideyed:
 
Alien life forms definitely exist and have visited earth. What else could explain Barnsley? :)
 
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