Shooting narrow DOF in studio.

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DaydreamJay

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A tricky technique for an amateur such as me. Today I was shooting at f1.4 in a studio environment and high-key lighting set up. I was using an adjustable ND filter, focusing with the filter on zero density and then switching to manual focus and turning the filter in several stops - it was guess work basically.

What other techniques are better than this?
 
Eliminate all ambient light, then switch off the flash and shoot with just the modelling lights.
 
I love shooting at wide apertures and I'm all for learning something new But! I can't see why you would really need to shoot that wide in a high key white background scenario?
 
onform said:
I love shooting at wide apertures and I'm all for learning something new But! I can't see why you would really need to shoot that wide in a high key white background scenario?
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It is an interesting look. I've experimented with it and it creates a real dreaminess. give it a go.
 
DaydreamJay said:
I don't use a tripod in the studio so that would be out of the question in my case.
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Any half decent modelling lamp will give easily hand-holdable shutter speeds at f/1.4. Agree with Mani.
 
ND filter on lens as you have done, or on the flashes. Modelling lamp brings complications with colour temps, overheating in softboxes and reflectors with grids and so on...
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
ND filter on lens as you have done, or on the flashes. Modelling lamp brings complications with colour temps, overheating in softboxes and reflectors with grids and so on...
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What complications with heat? Modelling lights are designed to be turned on. Custom white balance sorts the colour.

Biggest probelm with that technqiue is usually getting the ambient light down in anywhere except a proper studio, so it doesn't affect the picture. Basically, wait till it's dark. Otherwise, it's really ND filter time.
 
HoppyUK said:
What complications with heat? Modelling lights are designed to be turned on. Custom white balance sorts the colour.

Biggest probelm with that technqiue is usually getting the ambient light down in anywhere except a proper studio, so it doesn't affect the picture. Basically, wait till it's dark. Otherwise, it's really ND filter time.
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So isn't it possible that the modelling bulbs may have been replaced at one stage and possibly not all be the same, and therefore not the same colour temp?

I shoot alot with grids...I've melted enough to know I'm speaking the truth thank you :thumbs:
 
If you cant use the modelling bulbs due to using grids, softboxes etc (yes they can melt) then ND sheets over your lights would be a better solution than a ND filter over your lens.

Paul
 
fototraining said:
If you cant use the modelling bulbs due to using grids, softboxes etc (yes they can melt) then ND sheets over your lights would be a better solution than a ND filter over your lens.

Paul
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Sounds like a sledgehammer to crack a nut! Gelling lights/softboxes is difficult and combersome when a one or two stops ND filter over the lens is so easy.

It also doesn't overcome the problem of ambient light creeping in (actually makes it far worse) which IMHO is by far the biggest problem when shooting at f/1.4 in a domestic environment.

As for melting grids :eek: Do you have nuclear powered modelling lights? Turn them down! Plenty of light to shoot at low f/numbers but if that doesn't suit, then use the flash at minimum power, drop the ISO, and pop an ND filter over the lens :shrug:
 
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Goes to show there are many ways to crack a nut:bonk:
It all depends on your studio (any ambient) your Studio Flash's (how low will they go) and your camera (lowest ISO setting?).
I would rather not put an additional filter over my lens as this can decrease image quality.
And yes my modelling lights are nuclear powered, and cant be turned down;)
 
Modelling lights being either prop or full, don't give you alot of movement if you're shooting at full power ;)

Not all lights have a lamp power slider :)
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Modelling lights being either prop or full, don't give you alot of movement if you're shooting at full power ;)

Not all lights have a lamp power slider :)
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Haha! Fair dos ;)

But seriously, don't (almost) all modelling lights turn down? The only ones I know of that don't are the cheapy Lencarta Smartflashes, built down to a price. I've said before I think that's a bit of an oversight that can only cost a few quid at manufacture (just a knob and a simple potentiometer) as I hardy ever have the modelling lights flat out, they're flippin bright - though it's nice to be able to do that.

My Elinchrom D-Lites (also entry level heads) have modelling lights that can be switched full on, off, minimum or proportional :thumbs:

You could always change the bulb... :D
 
I use Elinchrom Style 300S heads currently, the top of the range head, the generation before the Style RX heads, and only have the options of OFF, ON, PROP, and FULL. It would be a pain if I ever shot with just the modelling lights, but I never do/would so it's not really a concern :)

For shallow DOF portraits I personally love the look of fluro banks like Kino flos. Make your own with a decent ballast and you're almost there (Kinos are dirty expensive)
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I use Elinchrom Style 300S heads currently, the top of the range head, the generation before the Style RX heads, and only have the options of OFF, ON, PROP, and FULL. It would be a pain if I ever shot with just the modelling lights, but I never do/would so it's not really a concern :)

For shallow DOF portraits I personally love the look of fluro banks like Kino flos. Make your own with a decent ballast and you're almost there (Kinos are dirty expensive)
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Then you have proportional modelling lights, which is ideal isn't it? :thinking:

Kino are video lights...
 
HoppyUK said:
Then you have proportional modelling lights, which is ideal isn't it? :thinking:

Kino are video lights...
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Your answer to model lights melting grids and overheating was "turn them down"

If I'm shooting full power, and the modelling lamps are set to proportional...they will also be on full power....no? :shrug: Thus, eliminating the option of turning them down...

No...kino flos are continuous lights...when did that make them solely eligible for video usage?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Your answer to model lights melting grids and overheating was "turn them down"

If I'm shooting full power, and the modelling lamps are set to proportional...they will also be on full power....no? :shrug: Thus, eliminating the option of turning them down...

No...kino flos are continuous lights...when did that make them solely eligible for video usage?
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Mike, we seem to be talking at cross-purposes. I am talking about using the modelling lights as the sole source of illumination, as an easy solution for very low f/number portraits when the flash won't turn down far enough. The flash doesn't come into it - it should be disconnected - you're just pinching the modelling light, turned up/down to suit. No need to melt anything.

This is a bit of a workaround, but it usually works very well. Shutter speeds are usually fine and with a custom white balnce you'd be very unlucky to have any colour issues at all, let alone anything serious.

If that zero-cost option doesn't work, then use flash and an ND filter over the lens. That would actually be my first option, given a suitable filter to hand. Spending £1k on a fancy video light would be a long way down my list of alternatives (ditto gelling the flashes).
 
HoppyUK said:
Mike, we seem to be talking at cross-purposes. I am talking about using the modelling lights as the sole source of illumination, as an easy solution for very low f/number portraits when the flash won't turn down far enough. The flash doesn't come into it - it should be disconnected - you're just pinching the modelling light, turned up/down to suit. No need to melt anything.

This is a bit of a workaround, but it usually works very well. Shutter speeds are usually fine and with a custom white balnce you'd be very unlucky to have any colour issues at all, let alone anything serious.

If that zero-cost option doesn't work, then use flash and an ND filter over the lens. That would actually be my first option, given a suitable filter to hand. Spending £1k on a fancy video light would be a long way down my list of alternatives (ditto gelling the flashes).
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:agree:
 
OK lets say I put my 85mm f1.4 along with a 4 stop ND filter to bring my usual F8 flash lighting down to f1.4. The poor camera is going to really struggle to focus in what it will see as poor ambient light.

I've often wondered why I can't set the ISO down to say 25 and buy 4 stops that way. Even if it isn't a true 25 it would still be a useful setting.
 
Hodders said:
OK lets say I put my 85mm f1.4 along with a 4 stop ND filter to bring my usual F8 flash lighting down to f1.4. The poor camera is going to really struggle to focus in what it will see as poor ambient light.

I've often wondered why I can't set the ISO down to say 25 and buy 4 stops that way. Even if it isn't a true 25 it would still be a useful setting.
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Why would an ND filter make any difference to focusing? If you're shooting at f/1.4, the light is going to be the same whichever way you do it. Four stops is a lot though, I've never needed more than two. If that was the case, I'd be looking for another solution.

5D2 goes down to an effective ISO50, which is only one stop off ISO25.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sounds like a sledgehammer to crack a nut! Gelling lights/softboxes is difficult and combersome when a one or two stops ND filter over the lens is so easy.

It also doesn't overcome the problem of ambient light creeping in (actually makes it far worse) which IMHO is by far the biggest problem when shooting at f/1.4 in a domestic environment.

As for melting grids :eek: Do you have nuclear powered modelling lights? Turn them down! Plenty of light to shoot at low f/numbers but if that doesn't suit, then use the flash at minimum power, drop the ISO, and pop an ND filter over the lens :shrug:
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Gelling the front of a softbox might be cumbersome but just sticking the gel over the flash head itself, which is all that's needed, is no problem at all.

I do see the point about the advantage of putting a ND filter over the camera lens, simply because it affects the ambient light as well as the flash, but it's another 2 surfaces that can reduce image quality, and obviously if it's a 0.9 or 1.2 ND filter then it will stop a lot of light, which will affect focussing.

Using the modelling lamps instead of the flash is do-able, but turning the modelling lamps down will create very different colour temperatures, which will be a big problem if shooting in colour.
 
HoppyUK said:
Why would an ND filter make any difference to focusing? If you're shooting at f/1.4, the light is going to be the same whichever way you do it. Four stops is a lot though, I've never needed more than two. If that was the case, I'd be looking for another solution.
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Because the camera only sees the full light when the strobes go off. Until you press the shutter all it has to go on is ambient through a ND filter and 4 stops or so will make a pretty dim room especially in a studio where ambient is often minimised.
 
I've done this a couple of times but I use a totally different technique.

I shoot as I would with any other studio shot at around f14 (yes that's eff fourteen) then use AlienBokeh in PP to create the effect of shallow DoF.

Examples are HERE and HERE.
 
Hodders said:
Because the camera only sees the full light when the strobes go off. Until you press the shutter all it has to go on is ambient through a ND filter and 4 stops or so will make a pretty dim room especially in a studio where ambient is often minimised.
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Sorry Ben, I'm getting my wires crossed. Yes it would not help the AF in that situation even though it should still cope okay. I think the main problem with a heavy ND like that is not being able to see the viewfinder image clearly, so probably two stops max on that?

Out of interest and to get some real numbers, I just tried using only the modelling light. Elinchrom D-Lite with a relatively feeble 100w modelling bulb, in a medium sized double-diffuser softbox. I get 1/200sec at f/1.4, ISO400 with the light at 1.5m. That seems workable enough.
 
-Rob- said:
I've done this a couple of times but I use a totally different technique.

I shoot as I would with any other studio shot at around f14 (yes that's eff fourteen) then use AlienBokeh in PP to create the effect of shallow DoF.

Examples are HERE and HERE.
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That looks pretty good!

But why do I instinctlively dislike it in principle, and baulk at spending $200 for the software, when I wouldn't think twice about spending twice that much on a nice low f/number prime for portraits? :suspect: :lol:
 
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