Scanning, inserts and flat negatives

simon ess

simon ess

Just call me Roxanne.
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I have, like many, a V500 scanner.

I'm mostly very happy with it but have grown increasingly frustrated with 35mm negs. that are bowed laterally across the film. I don't mind curled film, I can deal with that, it's the bow I've been having trouble with especially when the amount of bow brings a part of the neg into contact with the scanner bed, leaving an odd mark on the scan.

So, to eliminate this, I ordered some Betterscanner glass inserts.

What a right, royal pain in the backside they are!

Only 5 negs at a time, a pain to line up and lots, and I mean lots, more opportunity for dust and muck.

I need to find a way to flatten the negs before scanning. It doesn't need to be by much, just enough to avoid any part touching the bed. I've currently got a roll, cut into strips, in a neg wallet with a pile of books on top. I'll see if that helps.

Any ideas?
 
The only thing I found is another scanner, unfortunately. The Minolta Scan Dual IV come with a film guide that has bars across each frame so it straightens out the bow as you lock the film strip in, invaluable when it comes to scanning Tri-x.
 
simon ess said:
I have, like many, a V500 scanner.

I'm mostly very happy with it but have grown increasingly frustrated with 35mm negs. that are bowed laterally across the film. I don't mind curled film, I can deal with that, it's the bow I've been having trouble with especially when the amount of bow brings a part of the neg into contact with the scanner bed, leaving an odd mark on the scan.

So, to eliminate this, I ordered some Betterscanner glass inserts.

What a right, royal pain in the backside they are!

Only 5 negs at a time, a pain to line up and lots, and I mean lots, more opportunity for dust and muck.

I need to find a way to flatten the negs before scanning. It doesn't need to be by much, just enough to avoid any part touching the bed. I've currently got a roll, cut into strips, in a neg wallet with a pile of books on top. I'll see if that helps.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing myself. Glad you got in before I spent money on the betterscanner inserts. :D
 
Andysnap said:
. Glad you got in before I spent money on the betterscanner inserts. :D
Click to expand...

Not cheap either.

Still, if my misfortune has helped others, I'm happy.

He said between gritted teeth and with clenched fists. :mad:

:)
 
Strappy said:
The only thing I found is another scanner, unfortunately. The Minolta Scan Dual IV come with a film guide that has bars across each frame so it straightens out the bow as you lock the film strip in, invaluable when it comes to scanning Tri-x.
Click to expand...


Yeah, it may come to that, but I'll persevere with trying to persuade the negs flat for now.
 
I've just thought


Strappy said:
The Minolta Scan Dual IV come with a film guide that has bars across each frame so it straightens out the bow as you lock the film strip in, invaluable when it comes to scanning Tri-x.
Click to expand...

Anyone got access to a 3d printer?
 
Can't help you with your problem, as my negatives don't do that...
But, I too was thinking of buying the glass inserts...so, I'm glad I didn't lol.
 
simon ess said:
Ilford by any chance.

I've found FP4 to be the flattest. Sadly, Acros is my new favourite and it's the worst.
Click to expand...
I've shot some Acros and haven't had a problem, although I do get slight curling with Tri x, I put it down to my developing as being at fault though... so still can't help you.
 
Hold on though...if you're getting flat negs. it can't be a fault.

I wonder what you're doing that gives the flatness.
 
simon ess said:
Hold on though...if you're getting flat negs. it can't be a fault.

I wonder what you're doing that gives the flatness.
Click to expand...
I don't know Simon... having seen EdBray again today, and got some extra tips,, it may be that 'some' of my negatives are too thin, and it's those that curl the most...
 
simon ess said:
Hmm... I can see how it would help with curl but not with lateral bow.
Click to expand...
Depends on how well the holder grips the film edge, really. If you flatten the film, then close the holder, you're giving it maximum purchase to grip.
 
True enough, if it grips well enough.

I've done my bit for R+D for now with the Betterscanner inserts. I'll let some other su....erm, someone else try this.

:)
 
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Well I often thought if all these inventions are great then why doesn't Epson approach the inventor for a license to use it in their models...mass produced it would only add a few quid on the price.
 
I use an Epson V700 and do use the Betterscan ant-newton glass inserts, but only for 120 film, and I haven't scanned any 35mm for a while.
I don't know if the V700 35mm film holders are the same as V500 holders, but my experience was that if I loaded the film with emulsion side down, any curl would cause the film to curly AWAY from the scanner glass, not towards it. The manual may tell you to load the film with the emulsion facing up, but this is more likely to cause the neg to touch the glass. If you load it emulsion side down you will need to horizontally flip the image, which can be easily done in EpsonScan or Vuescan, and probably in Silverfast too. Of course you may get uneven focus because portions of the neg are further away from the glass, but this is true whether you load emulsion side up or down.

With regards to dust on the glass inserts; yes it is a problem with conventional B&W film because you can't use ICE. With colour or chromogenic B&W films, using ICE does the job so well that I don't worry about the dust. You could try shooting some Ilford XP2 and scanning it with glass holders and ICE, to see if that works for you.

If you really want to suffer with scanning, try Efke R100 127 film - super curly and doesn't fit in any film holder !
 
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The Plustek film holders have bars across between the negatives too, holds them nice and flat. The 35mm film holder on the V500 was one reason why I decided not to get rid of my Plustek. Would one of those work with the V500?
 
simon ess said:
I've just thought
Anyone got access to a 3d printer?
Click to expand...

The hinge on the Plustek film holder is a critical design element, might be a little bit tricky with 3d printing? NB I'm no kind of expert...
 
I've just switched to using a Pakon 135+ for 35mm because it can scan a roll in about 4 minutes and gets the colours spot-on every time. The scans are so good that I'm considering only shooting B&W film on my medium format gear from now on, which are much easier to deal with on the flatbed.
 
Thanks for all the input folks.

I left the negs under a pile of books for 12 hours and this flattened them just enough to eliminate the problem. That's what I'll do from now on.

@Kevin Allan

No problem with turning the negs over and then flipping them. I just couldn't get them to sit right in the holder. The bit of flattening I've achieved makes it much easier.

As an aside, it does seem the V500 has quite a large depth of focus.
 
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